Zimmerman To Face Charges

[Westside Steve]

"Especially the 12 or so percent of the population who support him because of his race but often do not vote in large numbers."

 

Maybe there's a white power video that agrees with you since the facts don't.

So post the links to the stats that state something different.

The actually complete stats.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

I did. I posted you the voting tallies from the last three elections. Black voters vote overwhelmingly Democratic, even when the candidate isn't black. Which tells you that ...the most important thing to black voters is more likely party affiliation, or the issues related to the party. There's no evidence that race plays a large role in moving blacks to vote Democratic.

 

You want to look at the vote turnout in those years too? I suspect it's similar - slightly up for Obama in 2008.

[Chicopee John]

>>You want to look at the vote turnout in those years too? I suspect it's similar - slightly up for Obama in 2008.>>

 

I'd be interested in seeing the voter turnout for Blacks last time.

 

I'd be shocked if the # of Black voters wasn't significantly higher in 2008 than in previous years. At least when Gore or Kerry ran. 'The First Black President' probably had pretty good Black turnout - at least the second term.

[heckofajobbrownie]

>>You want to look at the vote turnout in those years too? I suspect it's similar - slightly up for Obama in 2008.>>

 

I'd be interested in seeing the voter turnout for Blacks last time.

 

I'd be shocked if the # of Black voters wasn't significantly higher in 2008 than in previous years. At least when Gore or Kerry ran. 'The First Black President' probably had pretty good Black turnout - at least the second term.

 

Yeah, sure, it was up. Basically, they voted in the same numbers (percentage-wise) that whites do. But Asians also went up. So did Hispanics. Whites voted slightly less. Does that mean whites were racist and didn't want to vote for a black candidate?

 

Here you go: "In 2004, according to the census, barely 60 percent of eligible blacks voted. In 2008, nearly 65 percent did."

[MLD Woody]

Heck, you don't get it

 

 

Obamao only won because every black person voted for him. They only did this because he's black and they're all racist

 

 

But there weren't any whites that didn't vote for Obamao because he was black, that's crazy fascist talk

[The Cysko Kid]

Heck, you don't get it

 

 

Obamao only won because every black person voted for him. They only did this because he's black and they're all racist

 

 

But there weren't any whites that didn't vote for Obamao because he was black, that's crazy fascist talk

 

To be fair woody: nearly every black person that voted DID vote for Obama, ONLY because hes black. I'm not being sarcastic, I really believe that is the truth.

[Chicopee John]

>>Does that mean whites were racist and didn't want to vote for a black candidate>>

 

In some cases, the answer is yes. Also McCain just wasn't somebody to jump out of your easy chair and endure the inconvenience of the voting location.

 

>>Here you go: "In 2004, according to the census, barely 60 percent of eligible blacks voted. In 2008, nearly 65 percent did.">>

 

I'm surprised the percentage of eligible Black voters is so high. Probably higher than for Whites (?).

 

I've always been bothered by the indifference many Americans take regarding their voting rights.

 

I voted for neither Obama nor McCain but I still voted - and voted for President too.

[MLD Woody]

To be fair woody: nearly every black person that voted DID vote for Obama, ONLY because hes black. I'm not being sarcastic, I really believe that is the truth.

 

Well technically Heck's data just disproved that, or at least brings it into question. We see that the majority of the black voting population votes for the Dem, which Obama was. Therefore you'd never be able to prove they voted for him solely because he was black. If anything, that isn't true as the data shows they would have voted for him no matter what, being black just helped.

 

Same goes for those that didn't vote for him because he was white. They probably were going to vote Rep anyway

[VaporTrail]

To be fair woody: nearly every black person that voted DID vote for Obama, ONLY because hes black. I'm not being sarcastic, I really believe that is the truth.

 

Uneducated and moronic people voted for Obama because he was black.

 

Uneducated and moronic people voted for McCain because Obama was black.

 

I would think that these morons might have a canceling effect on each other.

[heckofajobbrownie]

>>Does that mean whites were racist and didn't want to vote for a black candidate>>

 

In some cases, the answer is yes. Also McCain just wasn't somebody to jump out of your easy chair and endure the inconvenience of the voting location.

 

>>Here you go: "In 2004, according to the census, barely 60 percent of eligible blacks voted. In 2008, nearly 65 percent did.">>

 

I'm surprised the percentage of eligible Black voters is so high. Probably higher than for Whites (?).

 

I've always been bothered by the indifference many Americans take regarding their voting rights.

 

I voted for neither Obama nor McCain but I still voted - and voted for President too.

 

I'm not quite sure if this is what you mean, but this isn't a measure of the number of eligible black voters vs. the overall black population, or eligible white voters.

 

But in 2008, the percentage of eligible black voters that voted was basically the same as the percentage of white voters that did. In past elections, it's been slightly less.

[heckofajobbrownie]

To be fair woody: nearly every black person that voted DID vote for Obama, ONLY because hes black. I'm not being sarcastic, I really believe that is the truth.

 

You can believe it all you like, but that's not what the evidence suggests. The evidence shows that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, and that Obama's race helped add to those totals. But had Obama been white, you're probably still looking at 90% of the black vote. Clearly, his party affiliation has more to do with how they vote. And if you don't think so, I can go find out how blacks have voted for black Republican candidates. I'm sure those will show that their race helped them with the black vote, but not all that much.

 

Of course, the sample is small, since there really aren't many black Republicans. There are only two in Congress, and before 2010 there were zero.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Well technically Heck's data just disproved that, or at least brings it into question. We see that the majority of the black voting population votes for the Dem, which Obama was. Therefore you'd never be able to prove they voted for him solely because he was black. If anything, that isn't true as the data shows they would have voted for him no matter what, being black just helped.

 

Same goes for those that didn't vote for him because he was white. They probably were going to vote Rep anyway

 

It's good to see someone else knows how to look at/interpret data.

[MLD Woody]

It's good to see someone else knows how to look at/interpret data.

 

[Chicopee John]

I'm not quite sure if this is what you mean, but this isn't a measure of the number of eligible black voters vs. the overall black population, or eligible white voters.

 

But in 2008, the percentage of eligible black voters that voted was basically the same as the percentage of white voters that did. In past elections, it's been slightly less.

 

At the risk of beating this horse to death, Heck, do 60% of eligible voters - regardless of any demographic, except being human - vote(d) in Presidental races?

 

I thought, in general, the percentage was much lower. Maybe Presidential races drive turnout that much

 

Thanks for the insights.

[Chicopee John]

 

Do you know either Jack Shultz or Jenna Kudla in the Engineering Program?

 

Jack, I know, happens to be #1 on the Golf Team.

[MLD Woody]

Do you know either Jack Shultz or Jenna Kudla in the Engineering Program?

 

Jack, I know, happens to be #1 on the Golf Team.

 

Not that I can think of. I have a professor who's last name is Schultz

[The Cysko Kid]

You can believe it all you like, but that's not what the evidence suggests. The evidence shows that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, and that Obama's race helped add to those totals. But had Obama been white, you're probably still looking at 90% of the black vote. Clearly, his party affiliation has more to do with how they vote. And if you don't think so, I can go find out how blacks have voted for black Republican candidates. I'm sure those will show that their race helped them with the black vote, but not all that much.

 

Of course, the sample is small, since there really aren't many black Republicans. There are only two in Congress, and before 2010 there were zero.

 

If Obama were a republican you don't think they would have voted for him? Horseshit.

[The Cysko Kid]

If Obama were a republican you don't think they would have voted for him? Horseshit.

 

A lot of people don't vote for congressmen or senators because they a: don't care. And B: don't know about the candidates.

 

Presidential election gets all the attention. If Herman Cain somehow got nominated and he was up against a white male democrat you can bet your bottom dollar there'd be a huge increase in black republicans. Like all of them.

[MLD Woody]

A lot of people don't vote for congressmen or senators because they a: don't care. And B: don't know about the candidates.

 

Presidential election gets all the attention. If Herman Cain somehow got nominated and he was up against a white male democrat you can bet your bottom dollar there'd be a huge increase in black republicans. Like all of them.

 

And you know this because of your extensive contact with the black community, correct?

[heckofajobbrownie]

If Obama were a republican you don't think they would have voted for him? Horseshit.

 

No, I don't. If Allen West ran against Hillary Clinton, blacks would overwhelmingly vote for Hillary Clinton. Absolutely.

[heckofajobbrownie]

A lot of people don't vote for congressmen or senators because they a: don't care. And B: don't know about the candidates.

 

Presidential election gets all the attention. If Herman Cain somehow got nominated and he was up against a white male democrat you can bet your bottom dollar there'd be a huge increase in black republicans. Like all of them.

 

This is really nonsense. It really is. You can believe it, and apparently you do, but it's based on the assumption that all black voters care about is the color of one's skin. Based on some of the stuff you've contributed before, this seems to be beneath you, especially since you're singling out blacks for voting for people of their own race when this is hardly something that is specific to blacks. Hispanics vote for other Hispanics in increased numbers. Jews vote for other Jews in increased numbers. And, of course, whites vote for other whites in increased numbers.

 

But hey, prove me wrong. Go find me all the blacks that voted for Tim Scott and Allen West.

 

Again, you're going to have a tough time supporting your thesis since there are almost no black Republicans.

[The Cysko Kid]

Do you even know any black people? As you drive around east Cleveland Barack Obama is diefied. There's murals of him on the sides of gas stations, there's pictures of him everywhere. In black peoples homes when I'm putting their alarms in, there's commemerative plates with him on them. You think its because he's a democrat? I think that's unlikely. There's no statues of Kennedy, lbj, carter or Clinton up on the east side, believe that.

 

Here's a question: fantasy primary- Clinton vs Obama who wins the black vote?

[The Cysko Kid]

This is really nonsense. It really is. You can believe it, and apparently you do, but it's based on the assumption that all black voters care about is the color of one's skin. Based on some of the stuff you've contributed before, this seems to be beneath you, especially since you're singling out blacks for voting for people of their own race when this is hardly something that is specific to blacks. Hispanics vote for other Hispanics in increased numbers. Jews vote for other Jews in increased numbers. And, of course, whites vote for other whites in increased numbers.

 

But hey, prove me wrong. Go find me all the blacks that voted for Tim Scott and Allen West.

 

Again, you're going to have a tough time supporting your thesis since there are almost no black Republicans.

 

Who the fuck are Tim Scott and Allen west? If I don't know your average inner-city black voter doesn't. Everybody knows who Barack Obama is. BTW I didn't touch the thought that other races do it. Of course they do, but if you're asserting that the majority of black voters would choose a white male democrat over a black male republican, I disagree whole-heartedly. Well never know until that situation presents itself.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Except that there is zero evidence to support your notion, and lots of evidence that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, even when the candidate is white. There's also loads and loads of evidence that blacks are extremely hostile to Republican candidates and Republican positions and the Republican Party in general.

 

Even the point you raised makes my point and not yours. Yes, Obama won the black vote in the primary over Clinton. But he also won the white vote. He won the national vote.

 

But in the primary, Hillary had an early lead over Obama in the black vote. Then they were evenly split. And then she lost them. She also lost the primary.

 

If your point is that the black community is proud that there's a black president, I yield to your stunning insight. Next we can go to South Boston and look at all the Kennedy deification, and you can tell me how it's any different. But your point that blacks would vote for a Republican if they were black and not for the Democrat if they were white hasn't a shred of evidence to support it.

 

Think about it: Condi Rice vs. Hillary. Wouldn't even be close. Of course Rice's race would attract more black votes than in a normal year, but I'd wager blacks would go for Hillary by at least 70-30, and probably more like 80-20.

 

Allen West vs. Hillary: I'd think West would get even less than Condi.

 

Colin Powell is the only black Republican I could see considerable crossover votes for, and I'm not sure he considers himself a Republican so much anymore.

[The Cysko Kid]

Except that there is zero evidence to support your notion, and lots of evidence that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, even when the candidate is white. There's also loads and loads of evidence that blacks are extremely hostile to Republican candidates and Republican positions and the Republican Party in general.

 

Even the point you raised makes my point and not yours. Yes, Obama won the black vote in the primary over Clinton. But he also won the white vote. He won the national vote.

 

But in the primary, Hillary had an early lead over Obama in the black vote. Then they were evenly split. And then she lost them. She also lost the primary.

 

If your point is that the black community is proud that there's a black president, I yield to your stunning insight. Next we can go to South Boston and look at all the Kennedy deification, and you can tell me how it's any different. But your point that blacks would vote for a Republican if they were black and not for the Democrat if they were white hasn't a shred of evidence to support it.

 

Think about it: Condi Rice vs. Hillary. Wouldn't even be close. Of course Rice's race would attract more black votes than in a normal year, but I'd wager blacks would go for Hillary by at least 70-30, and probably more like 80-20.

 

Allen West vs. Hillary: I'd think West would get even less than Condi.

 

Colin Powell is the only black Republican I could see considerable crossover votes for, and I'm not sure he considers himself a Republican so much anymore.

 

I meant bill Clinton. The "good" Clinton.

 

You only have data that says black voters vote democrat over republican in smaller elections where they possibly don't know thing one about who they're voting for except party affiliations. When they put a photo of the candidate next to the name i suspect your statistical numbers will begin to change. Plus in only one election were they able to choose a highly visable black leader over a white one and they did. Your statistics mean nothing if there was only one election where that choice was totally obvious.

[MLD Woody]

You have data...

 

BUT I HAVE SPECULATION!

 

I win

[heckofajobbrownie]

Cysko, I don't want to want to separate you from your opinion that blacks don't have a political thought in their heads beyond "black candidate good", so really, you can keep it. I'm just pointing out that there's no evidence to support your point, and lots of evidence to support mine.

 

I can't imagine any serious political observer would share your view that a black Republican would instantly and automatically win most of the black votes over a white Democrat.

 

Or you can ask yourself this: why are there so few black Republicans? In Congress there are only two. Before 2010, there were zero. You'd have to go back to JC Watts, who retired in 2003. And when he was in Congress, he was the only one. Also, the two that are in Congress now were voted in overwhelmingly by white Republicans, not blacks.

 

You might want to consider the idea that the black community by and large doesn't like the Republican Party, or vote for it. If you need any clues as to why, just read the Republicans in here.

[The Cysko Kid]

Cysko, I don't want to want to separate you from your opinion that blacks don't have a political thought in their heads beyond "black candidate good", so really, you can keep it. I'm just pointing out that there's no evidence to support your point, and lots of evidence to support mine.

 

I can't imagine any serious political observer would share your view that a black Republican would instantly and automatically win most of the black votes over a white Democrat.

 

Or you can ask yourself this: why are there so few black Republicans? In Congress there are only two. Before 2010, there were zero. You'd have to go back to JC Watts, who retired in 2003. And when he was in Congress, he was the only one. Also, the two that are in Congress now were voted in overwhelmingly by white Republicans, not blacks.

 

You might want to consider the idea that the black community by and large doesn't like the Republican Party, or vote for it. If you need any clues as to why, just read the Republicans in here.

 

And I answered you because no one knows or cares. President is visable, congress is not. You are giving me old data of who black people voted for in the past and trying to tell me its relevant. You don't know WHY blacks voted for Obama. I have my theory and you have yours. If mine assumes every black votes solely on the basis if race. Yours assumes they only vote solely on loyalty to a single party affiliation. What's the difference? They both assume black voters vote blindly.

[MLD Woody]

Creationism: "Its my theory! I have no real proof... but I believe it!"

 

Evolution: "My theory. I have a shit load of evidence"

 

 

Apparently we can't pick one... bummer...

[heckofajobbrownie]

And I answered you because no one knows or cares. President is visable, congress is not. You are giving me old data of who black people voted for in the past and trying to tell me its relevant. You don't know WHY blacks voted for Obama. I have my theory and you have yours. If mine assumes every black votes solely on the basis if race. Yours assumes they only vote solely on loyalty to a single party affiliation. What's the difference? They both assume black voters vote blindly.

 

Um, no. My stance is not that blacks vote solely on the basis of party affiliation, but that they're extremely loyal to the Democratic Party and hostile to the Republican Party. Like any other voting bloc, they have a myriad of issues that they consider.