Camp Coleman... Shon that is...

[Tour2ma]

Been beatin' the kid's drum for over a year now... time to... ummmm... pitch a tent?

Gotta be a better way of putting that...

Shon Coleman with chance to earn RT job on fortified Browns O-line

Posted 3 hours ago
Patrick Maks Staff Writer

AURORA — Shon Coleman spent the offseason working out in Berea in hopes of securing a starting spot on the Browns’ new-look offensive line.

The second-year right tackle will get his shot as Cleveland opens OTAs this week.

“I think he has all the ability to do it,” left tackle and 10-time Pro Bowler Joe Thomas said Monday at the annual Cleveland Browns Foundation Golf Tournament.

To be sure, Coleman — a third-round pick in the 2016 NFL Draft — will have to earn such a role on a new-look offensive line that added former Bengals right guard Kevin Zeitler and former Packers center JC Tretter during free agency.

Coleman, a third-round pick in 2016, could be the final piece to a starting unit that was decimated by injuries in a 1-15 season. Though a knee injury limited him during training camp, Coleman played in seven games as a rookie and was regarded as one of the best tackles coming out of the NFL Draft last year.

Thomas said he likes what he’s seen out of Coleman, “but there’s just a matter of going out and proving that he can because he hasn't had a lot of NFL action yet and there’s a difference between showing you can do it in practice and showing you can do it in a game.”

Coleman, of course, won’t have anything handed to him. He’ll face competition from Cameron Erving, whom head coach Hue Jackson said in March will have just as much of a chance to earn a starting job after making 13 starts last season. The Browns also return veteran John Greco, who showed off his versatility in 2016 by playing both center, guard and started 36 games at left tackle in college.

That kind of depth, Thomas said, can be an advantage for the Browns next season not only at tackle but also across the unit.

“I think obviously the offensive line was not very good (last year),” he said, “and I think adding a couple guys that we have will help not only the beginning of season starting five but, if we do run into a situation like we did last year where you have a couple injures, you have guys that can step in and be good players.”

Indeed, the Browns were dealt season-ending injuries to Greco, starting left guard Joel Bitonio and Erving missed time with a bruised lung early in the year. If there is a silver lining to be gleaned from such misfortune, it’s that Cleveland can now rely on youngsters in Spencer Drango, Austin Reiter and Anthony Fabiano, who combined for 11 starts last season, if need be. The Browns also added Marcus Martin, the former 49ers starting center, off waivers in March and drafted former Florida State left tackle Rod Johnson in the fifth round last month.

“Injuries are going to happen on the offensive line in the NFL,” Thomas said, “and so having a little bit of a contingency plan and having guys that can move around and play different positions well will help us from an offensive standpoint.”

[gumby73]

ok, but Mud stuck the pole in Gilbert last season & hell he could not even hang with 53 Steelqueers..Is this your final challenge flag?

[Tour2ma]

Final? Hell, no... bought a bushel of 'em when I came here...

[Orion]

We really need Coleman to make a 2nd year jump forward...cos I certainly don't get the warm fuzzies that Erving will ever hold down an OL position.

[Flyin J]

YAWN........................... Guess what? The Browns OL will again be shit, and will again be decimated by injury. WHY? BECAUSE NO 5 MEN CAN BLOCK 9 MEN. With a total lack of offensive weapons, opposing defenses will camp out near the LOS, just like they have since 1999.

 

This OL will give no more protection than last year's OL did. The results will the same.

 

• QB holds on to the ball too fucking long
• defense crowds the box
• QB gets his cock and eggs scrambled
• Browns are forced into a dink and dump offense once again
• Defense spends too much time on field

NO QB, WRs, TE,s and RBs = injuries, taking too many brutal hits, loss of energy and vigor.

 

Just watch and see. The new fatasses will look no different from the old fatasses.

 

WHY? Because OL are the least talented athletes NO JUST ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD.................but in ALL OF PRO SPORTS. Offensive linemen are a dime a dozen.

We drafted 4 WR last year including one in the first round, and a TE in the first round this year. We are investing more in the skill positions.

[Tour2ma]

Also took a QB, signed an experienced WR and added a RB through the draft to a couple of promising RB pickups...

 

 

We really need Coleman to make a 2nd year jump forward...cos I certainly don't get the warm fuzzies that Erving will ever hold down an OL position.

 

Preaching to the choir on Erving...

 

Best I can do on Shon is "Book It!"... the kid is going to be good... real good... will make us forget "the Schwartz" by the end of 2018.

[Mudfly]

We drafted 4 WR last year including one in the first round, and a TE in the first round this year. We are investing more in the skill positions.

I have a good feeling with this TE we just picked up....think he'll show up....

 

But those 4 WR's we picked?....not so much.....just a big pile of crapola, so far....

 

 

Best I can do on Shon is "Book It!"... the kid is going to be good... real good... will make us forget "the Schwartz" by the end of 2018.

Ok then......Im in.....especially since Shashi let our one viable RT walk and put Erving in as the reserve option....

 

Am I the only one that see's this as a disaster waiting to happen????.....Coleman will have a sore knee by week 2, then what?

[LBC mike]

Durability at the oline last year was horrible

[Flugel]

Ok then......Im in.....especially since Shashi let our one viable RT walk and put Erving in as the reserve option....

 

Am I the only one that see's this as a disaster waiting to happen????.....Coleman will have a sore knee by week 2, then what?

 

Unless Erving really surprises me, I don't see him competing for the RT job even if Coleman gets re-injured. Greco was a Tackle coming out of college so it's conceivable that Zeitler starting at RG places Greco as our #2 option to Coleman at RT. Drango might not even be a bad option (with a year under his belt) if Coleman can't stay healthy.

[Mudfly]

 

Unless Erving really surprises me, I don't see him competing for the RT job even if Coleman gets re-injured. Greco was a Tackle coming out of college so it's conceivable that Zeitler starting at RG places Greco as our #2 option to Coleman at RT. Drango might not even be a bad option (with a year under his belt) if Coleman can't stay healthy.

Well he is competing for the job......so you will definitely see it.....

 

But the Greco/Drango plan gives me zero comfort.....Greco may never play again....he's old....he's a guard....he's injured.....so not a good plan at RT......in fact, we had him all last year and Pazstor was still the best plan......we had Drango too, yet Pazstor was the starter......

 

So, how is it a good plan to chop the one(affordable and young) guy who started all season and replace him with an old limping guard or your back up LG?......it's a bad bad plan.....

 

They should cut Erving, sign Pazstor and go about their business.....

 

(wondering if Pazstor screwed Shashi's boy friend or something)....(completely dont get why he is gone)

[The Gipper]

Is Pasztor still out there unsigned? What is going on there? Is he an unrestricted FA...or restricted somehow?

[Mudfly]

Is Pasztor still out there unsigned? What is going on there? Is he an unrestricted FA...or restricted somehow?

yes...he is unsigned.....and Erving is holding his roster spot.....

[TexasAg1969]

And he is only 26 so age can't be the issue.

[Mudfly]

And he is only 26 so age can't be the issue.

Money ball, bro, money ball.....

[wargograw]

That plus Pasztor was mediocre.

[Tour2ma]

Paz was better than mediocre...

 

I'd send Erving packing and sign him in a minute, if his price was backup base plus PT incentives...

 

Just in case Mud puttin' his stink eye on my guy comes to pass....

[Mudfly]

That plus Pasztor was mediocre.

 

Mediocre is just fine, when it's time for next man up.....way better than shitty, Id say.....depth is necessary and you dont get "greats" as back ups....its shit or mediocre.....choose your poison...

 

Paz was better than mediocre...

 

I'd send Erving packing and sign him in a minute, if his price was backup base plus PT incentives...

 

Just in case Mud puttin' his stink eye on my guy comes to pass....

Ha....reality is that we cant count on Coleman....hasnt shown he can even play....had serious injury that took a year to heal....too many questions....

 

Pazstor wants low starters money and the Browns dont want to pay a back up starters money....plain and simple money ball....thats Depos game.....so, we get what we pay for and we want a cheap back up......

 

Just another example of dumping talent and replacing it with crap.....even if it's 2nd tier talent being replaced by second tier crap....Browns need to learn how to promote others to starter, whilst retaining the existing talent for depth,,,,,a serious shortcoming through out this most recent build.....

[Flugel]

Well he (Erving) is competing for the job......so you will definitely see it..... - Mud

 

Have they put the pads and done any okie drills yet? I haven't seen Erving compete yet when he's had the pads on. He did a poor job at RG before doing a poor job at Center so today they are putting him as far away from our passer as they can. Let's not pretend that's because he competes. - Flugel

 

But the Greco/Drango plan gives me zero comfort..... Greco may never play again....he's old....he's a guard....he's injured..... - Mud

 

According to you - not him. Have you heard what he's had to say about his injury, rehab and expectation for 2017? You might want to. Bitonio had the same injury and I don't hear all your negativity about his future. Greco may be 32 but he didn't have a lot of wear and tear his first 4 years in the league as a non starter so there's no reason to think he can't continue to enjoy his prime years as a Pro at least another year or 2. - Flugel

 

so not a good plan at RT......in fact, we had him all last year and Pazstor was still the best plan......we had Drango too, yet Pazstor was the starter...... - Mud

 

Greco was starting at RG while Bitonio was starting at LG in 2016 so that only left Pazstor looking for a starting job at the only opening at RT (especially since he couldn't beat out either OG). Just think, if Pazstor actually impressed any of the 32 NFL teams out there - he'd at least be employed by 1 of them looking for depth at OG or OT at the humbling wages of an unemployed player. That's about as money ball intriguing as it gets unless there's 32 NFL teams thinking he can't play OT.

 

As I already stated (and you quickly dismissed it), Zeitler was brought here to be the starting RG in 2017 so now Greco is in the position that Pazstor was in last year where his best chance to start should be at RT. Consequently, if I had to put $ down on who I think would make a better RT between Greco and Erving, it would easily be the guy (Greco) that has looked good playing LG, RG and C after he started all 4 years at OT in college over Erving who looked bad at OG and C. Do I need to explain the difference between succeeding at each spot vrs running out of opportunities to fuck up? There's a reason, or countless reasons, why it was usually Erving or Pazstor leaving our fans most frustrated. One of them was overrated in the draft so he's been in charge of walking his football career to the edge of the plank.

 

Drango was a late round pick so the expectation was never to start him immediately. That said, he was placed in the starting line up on certain situations we went with an unbalanced line to gain some experience as a rookie as well as filling in for injured starters here and there at OG. I've seen plenty of olinemen here over the years make huge progress after their rookie years going from non-starters to starters. I like Drango's resume (now with experience) enough to think he can at least offer up a healthier competition than we saw in 2016 for the RT spot. Between Coleman, Greco, Drango and any others going for it at RT - I'm not nearly as sold as you that it's a bad plan.

- Flugel

 

So, how is it a good plan to chop the one(affordable and young) guy who started all season and replace him with an old limping guard or your back up LG?......it's a bad bad plan..... -Mudfly

 

If your Austin Pasztor is such a huge bargain for a young guy - why hasn't 1 of 32 NFL teams signed the guy? Who, besides you, says Greco will be limping any more than Bitonio will be?

 

Back to why I think Greco is a good idea to compete with Coleman and Drango/whoever else for the RT job. He was a 4 year starter as an OT at Toledo (1 year at RT and 3 at LT), which made him a 65th pick overall (#1 in rd 3) for the Rams. After he was traded to Cleveland - he eventually started at LG, RG and Center. Does that complete the cycle of a linemen capable of playing all 5 offensive line spots? I haven't seen that type of flexibility here since Paul Farren started at 4 different spots on our oline here back when we frequented post seasons. - Flugel

 

They should cut Erving, - Mud

 

Ya think? You were just correcting me with a smiley face that Erving will be competing for a starting job. But now that you just had your light bulb moment that we should cut him. God bless ya! - Flugel

 

 

 

 

[Mudfly]

 

Well he (Erving) is competing for the job......so you will definitely see it..... - Mud

 

Have they put the pads and done any okie drills yet? I haven't seen Erving compete yet when he's had the pads on. He did a poor job at RG before doing a poor job at Center so today they are putting him as far away from our passer as they can. Let's not pretend that's because he competes. - Flugel

 

I can agree that he is not a competitive talent....and not a good player....but the Browns have clearly stated he is competing for the RT job...its not my idea, it's theirs....

 

But the Greco/Drango plan gives me zero comfort..... Greco may never play again....he's old....he's a guard....he's injured..... - Mud

 

According to you - not him. Have you heard what he's had to say about his injury, rehab and expectation for 2017? You might want to. Bitonio had the same injury and I don't hear all your negativity about his future. Greco may be 32 but he didn't have a lot of wear and tear his first 4 years in the league as a non starter so there's no reason to think he can't continue to enjoy his prime years as a Pro at least another year or 2. - Flugel

 

Im not counting him out Fluges....Im saying we dont know, so he's not a great plan going forward....."if" he doesnt return to form, then where are we?.....are you guaranteeing that he will?....thats all Im saying....Pazstor was our best LT last year, so how are these other guys a better idea?

 

and in re to you saying he has another year or 2 in him.....doesnt that go against this whole youth movement???.....when you have a second year guy who starts every game and performs pretty well, do you cut him for a 32 year old, coming off major surgery, who has only a couple years in him, to act as back up for a position he hasnt played in 10 years?......read this back a couple times and then tell me how that plan is reasonable, in light of the moves and direction this team has chosen to go lately.....

 

so not a good plan at RT......in fact, we had him all last year and Pazstor was still the best plan......we had Drango too, yet Pazstor was the starter...... - Mud

 

Greco was starting at RG while Bitonio was starting at LG in 2016 so that only left Pazstor looking for a starting job at the only opening at RT (especially since he couldn't beat out either OG). Just think, if Pazstor actually impressed any of the 32 NFL teams out there - he'd at least be employed by 1 of them looking for depth at OG or OT at the humbling wages of an unemployed player. That's about as money ball intriguing as it gets unless there's 32 NFL teams thinking he can't play OT.

 

 

Yet Hue thought enough of him to have him start every game.....

 

As I already stated (and you quickly dismissed it),

 

I didnt dismiss anything....are you getting butt hurt again?....

 

Zeitler was brought here to be the starting RG in 2017 so now Greco is in the position that Pazstor was in last year where his best chance to start should be at RT.

 

Using your logic, why was Zietler brought in if Greco is so great?.....shouldnt they have just brought in a RT?

 

Consequently, if I had to put $ down on who I think would make a better RT between Greco and Erving, it would easily be the guy (Greco) that has looked good playing LG, RG and C after he started all 4 years at OT in college over Erving who looked bad at OG and C. Do I need to explain the difference between succeeding at each spot vrs running out of opportunities to fuck up? There's a reason, or countless reasons, why it was usually Erving or Pazstor leaving our fans most frustrated. One of them was overrated in the draft so he's been in charge of walking his football career to the edge of the plank.

 

Again....simply put....there are no guarantees with Greco, so Id like to have a plan in place for RT....I agree that he'd be better than Erving, as would Pazstor(which is my WHOLE point).....Erving bites, yet the Browns want to try him there....this makes me nervous, as they are the same ones that thought a whole season at C was a good idea.....so excuse me for wanting depth after watching last years debacle.....

 

Drango was a late round pick so the expectation was never to start him immediately. That said, he was placed in the starting line up on certain situations we went with an unbalanced line to gain some experience as a rookie as well as filling in for injured starters here and there at OG. I've seen plenty of olinemen here over the years make huge progress after their rookie years going from non-starters to starters. I like Drango's resume (now with experience) enough to think he can at least offer up a healthier competition than we saw in 2016 for the RT spot. Between Coleman, Greco, Drango and any others going for it at RT - I'm not nearly as sold as you that it's a bad plan.

- Flugel

 

I, and I think most people, had Drango at Guard.....simple....but we can bounce em around if you want....again, no issues with Drango, just think Pazstor is better....

 

So, how is it a good plan to chop the one(affordable and young) guy who started all season and replace him with an old limping guard or your back up LG?......it's a bad bad plan..... -Mudfly

 

If your Austin Pasztor is such a huge bargain for a young guy - why hasn't 1 of 32 NFL teams signed the guy? Who, besides you, says Greco will be limping any more than Bitonio will be?

 

I didnt say he would be....I said there is no guarantee he wont be.....and Im not so sure he'll be a great T or better than Paz at RT....healthy or not...

 

Back to why I think Greco is a good idea to compete with Coleman and Drango/whoever else for the RT job. He was a 4 year starter as an OT at Toledo (1 year at RT and 3 at LT), which made him a 65th pick overall (#1 in rd 3) for the Rams. After he was traded to Cleveland - he eventually started at LG, RG and Center. Does that complete the cycle of a linemen capable of playing all 5 offensive line spots? I haven't seen that type of flexibility here since Paul Farren started at 4 different spots on our oline here back when we frequented post seasons. - Flugel

 

Again...no issues with Greco....have always liked him....(Ill say it a thousand times).....still think Pazstor is a better option

 

They should cut Erving, - Mud

 

Ya think? You were just correcting me with a smiley face that Erving will be competing for a starting job. But now that you just had your light bulb moment that we should cut him. God bless ya! - Flugel

 

No...I wasnt correcting you, I was making a joke(with a winkie poo) that you completely missed, then went into the butthurt Flugel dance.... as usual......which triggered this^^^???....Technically Erving IS competing for the position...and Ive always said they should cut him.....all last year too....he bites and should not be here, while Pazstor isnt.....

 

 

 

 

 

[TexasAg1969]

We really need Coleman to make a 2nd year jump forward...cos I certainly don't get the warm fuzzies that Erving will ever hold down an OL position.

 

What are you talking about? He got down on all fours several times to hold that OL together and even laid down his body to force people to walk over his chest.

[Flugel]

 

 

Well he (Erving) is competing for the job......so you will definitely see it..... - Mud

 

Have they put the pads and done any okie drills yet? I haven't seen Erving compete yet when he's had the pads on. He did a poor job at RG before doing a poor job at Center so today they are putting him as far away from our passer as they can. Let's not pretend that's because he competes. - Flugel

 

I can agree that he is not a competitive talent....and not a good player....but the Browns have clearly stated he is competing for the RT job...its not my idea, it's theirs....

 

But the Greco/Drango plan gives me zero comfort..... Greco may never play again....he's old....he's a guard....he's injured..... - Mud

 

According to you - not him. Have you heard what he's had to say about his injury, rehab and expectation for 2017? You might want to. Bitonio had the same injury and I don't hear all your negativity about his future. Greco may be 32 but he didn't have a lot of wear and tear his first 4 years in the league as a non starter so there's no reason to think he can't continue to enjoy his prime years as a Pro at least another year or 2. - Flugel

 

Im not counting him out Fluges....Im saying we dont know, so he's not a great plan going forward....."if" he doesnt return to form, then where are we?.....are you guaranteeing that he will?....thats all Im saying....Pazstor was our best LT last year, so how are these other guys a better idea?

 

and in re to you saying he has another year or 2 in him.....doesnt that go against this whole youth movement???.....when you have a second year guy who starts every game and performs pretty well, do you cut him for a 32 year old, coming off major surgery, who has only a couple years in him, to act as back up for a position he hasnt played in 10 years?......read this back a couple times and then tell me how that plan is reasonable, in light of the moves and direction this team has chosen to go lately.....

 

so not a good plan at RT......in fact, we had him all last year and Pazstor was still the best plan......we had Drango too, yet Pazstor was the starter...... - Mud

 

Greco was starting at RG while Bitonio was starting at LG in 2016 so that only left Pazstor looking for a starting job at the only opening at RT (especially since he couldn't beat out either OG). Just think, if Pazstor actually impressed any of the 32 NFL teams out there - he'd at least be employed by 1 of them looking for depth at OG or OT at the humbling wages of an unemployed player. That's about as money ball intriguing as it gets unless there's 32 NFL teams thinking he can't play OT.

 

 

Yet Hue thought enough of him to have him start every game.....

 

As I already stated (and you quickly dismissed it),

 

I didnt dismiss anything....are you getting butt hurt again?....

 

Zeitler was brought here to be the starting RG in 2017 so now Greco is in the position that Pazstor was in last year where his best chance to start should be at RT.

 

Using your logic, why was Zietler brought in if Greco is so great?.....shouldnt they have just brought in a RT?

 

Consequently, if I had to put $ down on who I think would make a better RT between Greco and Erving, it would easily be the guy (Greco) that has looked good playing LG, RG and C after he started all 4 years at OT in college over Erving who looked bad at OG and C. Do I need to explain the difference between succeeding at each spot vrs running out of opportunities to fuck up? There's a reason, or countless reasons, why it was usually Erving or Pazstor leaving our fans most frustrated. One of them was overrated in the draft so he's been in charge of walking his football career to the edge of the plank.

 

Again....simply put....there are no guarantees with Greco, so Id like to have a plan in place for RT....I agree that he'd be better than Erving, as would Pazstor(which is my WHOLE point).....Erving bites, yet the Browns want to try him there....this makes me nervous, as they are the same ones that thought a whole season at C was a good idea.....so excuse me for wanting depth after watching last years debacle.....

 

Drango was a late round pick so the expectation was never to start him immediately. That said, he was placed in the starting line up on certain situations we went with an unbalanced line to gain some experience as a rookie as well as filling in for injured starters here and there at OG. I've seen plenty of olinemen here over the years make huge progress after their rookie years going from non-starters to starters. I like Drango's resume (now with experience) enough to think he can at least offer up a healthier competition than we saw in 2016 for the RT spot. Between Coleman, Greco, Drango and any others going for it at RT - I'm not nearly as sold as you that it's a bad plan.

- Flugel

 

I, and I think most people, had Drango at Guard.....simple....but we can bounce em around if you want....again, no issues with Drango, just think Pazstor is better....

 

So, how is it a good plan to chop the one(affordable and young) guy who started all season and replace him with an old limping guard or your back up LG?......it's a bad bad plan..... -Mudfly

 

If your Austin Pasztor is such a huge bargain for a young guy - why hasn't 1 of 32 NFL teams signed the guy? Who, besides you, says Greco will be limping any more than Bitonio will be?

 

I didnt say he would be....I said there is no guarantee he wont be.....and Im not so sure he'll be a great T or better than Paz at RT....healthy or not...

 

Back to why I think Greco is a good idea to compete with Coleman and Drango/whoever else for the RT job. He was a 4 year starter as an OT at Toledo (1 year at RT and 3 at LT), which made him a 65th pick overall (#1 in rd 3) for the Rams. After he was traded to Cleveland - he eventually started at LG, RG and Center. Does that complete the cycle of a linemen capable of playing all 5 offensive line spots? I haven't seen that type of flexibility here since Paul Farren started at 4 different spots on our oline here back when we frequented post seasons. - Flugel

 

Again...no issues with Greco....have always liked him....(Ill say it a thousand times).....still think Pazstor is a better option

 

They should cut Erving, - Mud

 

Ya think? You were just correcting me with a smiley face that Erving will be competing for a starting job. But now that you just had your light bulb moment that we should cut him. God bless ya! - Flugel

 

No...I wasnt correcting you, I was making a joke(with a winkie poo) that you completely missed, then went into the butthurt Flugel dance.... as usual......which triggered this^^^???....Technically Erving IS competing for the position...and Ive always said they should cut him.....all last year too....he bites and should not be here, while Pazstor isnt.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A Butt hurt accusation from you of all people? You're the king of temper tantrums since the last regime change. Nobody has complained and whined more frequently than you over the last year or 2 so you can spare me the plastic smiley faced emoticons and lectures about ass hurtsies. I had to intervene and stick up for you the last time someone was calling you out in the middle of a couple of your tantrums so I got your butt hurtsies right heresies...

 

As recently as this thread, who whimpered out an "Am I the only one with a great big ass bleed about our RT situation from the gigantic crow bar Sashi wedged up my dumpster?" Yeah, you are the only one that doesn't understand there's 31 other NFL teams that don't see the absolute bang for the buck at RT that you do with Austin Pazstor. What do you know that 32 NFL teams cannot possibly understand about Pazstor today?

[Tour2ma]

Is the limit on quotes within quotes within quotes 10?

[Mudfly]

Ok....I give......Im wrong....

 

Pazstor sucks......Greco is the better RT....he will be 100% healthy.....completely return to form and be our answer going forward......

 

In fact, all my complaining was a waste......this team kicked ass last year, the draft picks were amazing, Hue is the next Bullychuck..... and I missed it it all......

[LogicIsForSquares]

Pazstor has been sitting on his couch, waiting on a phone call. I doubt every team has their RT starter and depth squared away. So either there is a private bidding war going or Pasztor is not very good.

[Tour2ma]

Paz is not a "very good" RT... just a good one, but that makes him better than about one-third of NFL starters at RT.

 

Plus have to remember he started all 16 for us last season with 15 at RT until we "experimented" in Week 17 moving him to RG.

 

Once again... I think the solution is starter incentives atop a reserve base salary. But I would not expect him to jump on that deal structure at this point... and also would not expect us to offer it as long as we stay blind to Cam's ineptitude.

[TexasAg1969]

Paz is not a "very good" RT... just a good one, but that makes him better than about one-third of NFL starters at RT.

 

Plus have to remember he started all 16 for us last season with 15 at RT until we "experimented" in Week 17 moving him to RG.

 

Once again... I think the solution is starter incentives atop a reserve base salary. But I would not expect him to jump on that deal structure at this point... and also would not expect us to offer it as long as we stay blind to Cam's ineptitude.

 

A blind man can't stay blind to Cam's ineptitude. Bring in Stevie Wonder to make the decision. He can hear the sound of a true backwards pancake above all the chatter.

[Mudfly]

Paz is not a "very good" RT... just a good one, but that makes him better than about one-third of NFL starters at RT.

 

Plus have to remember he started all 16 for us last season with 15 at RT until we "experimented" in Week 17 moving him to RG.

 

Once again... I think the solution is starter incentives atop a reserve base salary. But I would not expect him to jump on that deal structure at this point... and also would not expect us to offer it as long as we stay blind to Cam's ineptitude.

 

Ah.....at least one person can see my view.....thanks for that Tour....

 

 

A blind man can't stay blind to Cam's ineptitude. Bring in Stevie Wonder to make the decision. He can hear the sound of a true backwards pancake above all the chatter.

 

Is Hue blind?......I dont know why Cam is even here.....let alone competing for his third position now.......complete failure at OG.....complete failure at C.....and, now, we want to see him at RT????......really???

 

Well end up spinning our wheels all training camp and preseason....then cutting him at the end of preseason....only then scrambling to sign some udfa off someones practice squad at the last second.....book it......wheels spinning with no progress....(when we had the guy and invested 2 years of development already)

[Tour2ma]

Ah.....at least one person can see my view.....thanks for that Tour....

 

Mud, I always see your POV... just don't agree with it all the time...

 

 

However, even agreement happens more often than not by my reckoning. It's just that the "nots" lead to more interesting discussions.

[Mudfly]

Pazstor has been sitting on his couch, waiting on a phone call. I doubt every team has their RT starter and depth squared away. So either there is a private bidding war going or Pasztor is not very good.

Just wondering out loud......If Cam Erving was sitting on his couch, how many phone calls would he be getting?.....cause, at this point, he's the one we've chosen to bring to camp over Paz......

 

Paz is not a "very good" RT... just a good one, but that makes him better than about one-third of NFL starters at RT.

 

Quick snippet from an article posted yesterday, noting him as one the best 5 FA's still out there....

 

Ive highlighted a few points that, TO ME, make him a smart choice for a building team.....mostly his youth & versatility...

 

I do dispute the part that says we only brought him in to fill a void until Shon Coleman was ready.....considering we signed him during the 2015 season( a full 6 months before Coleman was even drafted)....

 

Austin Pasztor, OL

Pasztor made our list of the top 5 free agents still available a couple weeks ago. He stays here because he has managed, against all odds, to carve out a good career.

Since he first came to the league as an undrafted free agent with the Minnesota Vikings in 2012, Pasztor has worked his way into the starting lineup for 43 of the 58 games he’s played. He has demonstrated that he is solid as a right tackle, right guard and left guard.

That versatility and the fact he’s still only 26 years old should make Pasztor a valuable commodity somewhere. The fact that the Browns released him after he started 16 games for them last year doesn’t look good on paper, but Pasztor was only brought in to fill a void until Shon Coleman was ready.

Pasztor proved, though, that he’s more than just a stopgap player. He’s good enough to help a team for the long haul, either as a starter or a top backup. Someone is sure to give him the chance to do so soon.

[Flugel]

Paz is not a "very good" RT... just a good one, but that makes him better than about one-third of NFL starters at RT.

 

Plus have to remember he started all 16 for us last season with 15 at RT until we "experimented" in Week 17 moving him to RG.

 

Once again... I think the solution is starter incentives atop a reserve base salary. But I would not expect him to jump on that deal structure at this point... and also would not expect us to offer it as long as we stay blind to Cam's ineptitude.

 

It just seems weird that the offensive lines he temporarily started for didn't want to keep him at the bang for the buck prices he's willing to accept especially for a money ball organization that wants a bang for the buck talent/upside. Almost half his starts were here as 2015 fill-ins and 2016. There's 30 other teams (or at least a volume within that) not considering him in spite of how reasonable he can fit a salary cap At the end of 2015, I thought Pazstor was a pleasant surprise at OG; but Bitonio and Greco were the heavy faves to keep those spots in 2016 while RT was the opening money ball fit him into. This year, we seem like we're deeper at OG and Center so this thread went right to Paz when a concern developed about what if Coleman is still injured or gets re-injured...

 

If anything, that should put Cam's countless mental and physical blunders on film (w/ 1st round contract) at the end of a money ball plank waiting for a few more okie drills to punctuate the goodbye. They've been giving him the rope to hang himself and he's down to his last position/rites. The new regime wasn't the one that reached on Cam so I'm believing they do not have the blinders on to reward him if Coleman gets hurt. If he doesn't pleasantly surprise the right person - who here would be surprised to see him cut?

 

How many here before Paz pleasantly surprised us filling in at OG in 2015 - really knew who he was or how he got here? That said, I've played OG and I've played OT before and there's a big difference in space you're accountable for pass protection as an OT usually against more gifted athletes than some of the heavier compact powerhouses inside with less lateral space to be concerned with.

 

Our offensive line was not well respected in pas protection and the 2 guys that drew the most frequent complaints from our fanbase were; 1) Cam Erving, 2) Austin Pazstor. I wonder how much, if any, of Pasztor's last couple offensive line coaches tried to persuade the HC/FO to keep him especially in Cleveland under the money ball theme if he was good for the price they paid. We had 4 different QBs that couldn't finish starts (and some of those guys more than once) regardless of how fair or unfair it was to pin it all on just Erving and Paz all the time.

 

The other side is - there's a lot of guys like Paz that may offer better pass pro consistency at RT so their teams don't have to feel like they need to keep their TEs in to pass pro more than getting those big targets/catch radius' downfield to help their QB. Maybe that was a big part of the reason Barnidge's receptions decreased by about 23 while his TD receptions decreased from 9 to 2 especially after the matchup against Wake alley-ooped you better get this guy some help in pass pro or that QB t-shirt is going to go from XL to Tent-size.

 

This is where the question comes in - does Paz fit the long term plan or not? And part of that involves some confidence in thinking Coleman should be ready to be healthy and good enough to walk into the fate they planned for him. As far as those competing for the job - I mentioned the 2 guys I was familiar with and that went over like a fart in church. That said, there's probably other candidates here our staff feels good about for the competition. The other part of the plan is how much do you want your TE pass blocking in a passing era. We went after a TE in round 1 that it appears we'd rather use more like Jimmy Graham/Tyler Eifert weapon as a receiver than dual purpose prototype like Mark Bavaro or even Heath Miller (who put Shawn Merriman on his back 1 on 1 back when they were showing his highlights on draft day). That said, the one thing OJ Howard needed to work on when he returned last year was his consistency with blocking and he did. I think he's about a year or 2 older than Njoku so I'm guessing that part of his game can improve too if it's what they want him to be

 

I'm excited to see what Coleman has. He's got the same kind of mental toughness Eric Berry has in overcoming a life-threatening illness. He's also had experience as a LT so I'm hoping that means he offers more in terms of good feet and lateral movement that some of our other former college LTs haven't been able to transition over to this level.