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To All My Fellow Cleveland Fans


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I am getting that same vibe talking to you since i never even mentioned your name when i said that i was responding to the kid who wrote

 

This dude/female has only been on here for what, 20 posts? And half or more are 7th grade insults. Do the board a favor and IP ban this asshole. We don't need it with the season about to begin. I have a feeling he is a barfing hard member, comeback to create havok.

 

 

Maybe you should read what other posters also wrote instead of your own first.

 

 

 

If that's the only thing you could pick out to argue with in my previous post, I think I've made my point.

 

 

The point is, you're wrong. And the shit you say is ridiculous, and completely off base.

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my beer just flew out of my nose! holy crap! talk about drinking the kool aid.

 

YES i think heckertt is the best GM we've had since coming back into the league with his drafts. but what has anyone else done?

 

i don't agree totally with the OP's statements and especially with the way he's coming off, but i love the passion. passion we should all have. no one is calling for holmgren's head BUT MAKE SOME FXXKING MOVES!!!! don't we HAVE to spend a certain amount of money on FA?

 

i think clements makes sense not only because he would be cheap but because he's probably only one of a handful of players that wouldn't mind coming here brcause of his ohio roots and now the eric wright exit leaves that spot to be filled. cromartie is an ass and would love to resign here in ny where a photographer is around every turn.

 

but a back up RB? come on we gotta do better than that.

 

 

What's the status on Vickers? It is possible (albeit only slightly) that the plan is to release Vickers, move Hillis to FB until Marecic gets developed, and have Jackson and Hardesty as our feature backs.

 

Or perhaps Hardesty hasn't impressed since coming off of his injury, and Jackson was signed because Hardesty might not turn out to be a productive back at all.

 

Our RB/FB situation is far from settled. We have essentially a rookie coming off another lower body injury, who has yet to prove himself. We've got our starting FB feeling underappreciated and (as far as I know) yet to re-sign with us. We've got a RB who had himself a hell of a year in his first ever season as a true starting NFL RB, but is known as our only weapon. And a rookie FB we just added in the draft. There's any number of combinations we could have in the backfield. So, to me, adding Jackson wasn't a bad move in the least.

 

You have to realize that these moves might not make sense to us, because we're not the ones seeing these players in practice and hearing firsthand what the medical report is on their injuries. Once again, you have to trust that Holmgren and Co. have much more information about the status of their players than we do.

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The problem isn't that we are just sitting back and dong nothing. I believe we definitly went after guys ... and some bigger name guys (Jonathan Joseph and Ray Edwards to name a couple) The problem is that GOOD players feel like we aren't a good enough team yet and they want to win. And can you blame them for thinking that. It is now the Browns job to prove them wrong and if key guys stay healthy we can do that. And next yr we can fill some holes with FA's

 

I kind of look at the season this way ... it all rides on the shoulders of Colt. It is pretty simple. If Colt has a great yr we will win games. If Colt has a terrible year we will lose games. Seems pretty simple and logical.

 

If we added Nhamdi, Ray Edwards, and Sidney Rice the same would be true. We would have filled 3 "holes" but if Colt fails so do the Browns regardless.

 

We have enough for Colt to succeed right now. The WCO is the perfect system for his skillset. The line is pretty solid from center left and while it is a little shaky on the right side we have 2 kids with some nice upside and Billy Yates who IMO played very well when he played. We also have Hillis who is a beast and Hardesty healthy and we brought in Jackson who fits the system perfectly and is also very familar with it. Our WR's could be a huge question mark, but ... the last 2 high picks Heckert wasted on a WR were Maclin and Desean Jackson ... so I am going to trust his evaluation of WR's. I also think yr 3 could be the year that things click for Robo and MoMass...Yr 3 for a WR is commonly that year. Watson is a solid TE and the 2 kids behind him I am personally excited about them. Moore has amazing hands, and the kid they drafted is SUPER athletic.

 

So my point is basically ... The season rides on Colt it is pretty cut and dry to me. If he succeeds we succeeed as a team as well. If he doesn't we don't. That just seems to be the way we are built right now.

 

QB is so key in this league and always has been. Every dynasty ever in football had a GREAT QB.

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What's the status on Vickers? It is possible (albeit only slightly) that the plan is to release Vickers, move Hillis to FB until Marecic gets developed, and have Jackson and Hardesty as our feature backs.

 

Or perhaps Hardesty hasn't impressed since coming off of his injury, and Jackson was signed because Hardesty might not turn out to be a productive back at all.

 

Our RB/FB situation is far from settled. We have essentially a rookie coming off another lower body injury, who has yet to prove himself. We've got our starting FB feeling underappreciated and (as far as I know) yet to re-sign with us. We've got a RB who had himself a hell of a year in his first ever season as a true starting NFL RB, but is known as our only weapon. And a rookie FB we just added in the draft. There's any number of combinations we could have in the backfield. So, to me, adding Jackson wasn't a bad move in the least.

 

You have to realize that these moves might not make sense to us, because we're not the ones seeing these players in practice and hearing firsthand what the medical report is on their injuries. Once again, you have to trust that Holmgren and Co. have much more information about the status of their players than we do.

I'd say there's a < 5% chance vickers is back with the browns. Hence on why we were the first team to take a fullback in the draft. I believe vickers would have done just fine in this new offense, the FO apparently thinks otherwise

 

As for hardesty reports are he's been looking good so far, knee looks fine and he definitely has the skills to be a good solid running back. If he stays healthy, big IF there, I could see him surpassing Hillis as our #1 back, although there wouldn't be much difference as I'd predict a 55-45 split for carries between them.

 

Hillis will not be moved to FB although we may see him line up there from time to time, id say more likely on passing scenarios where he has the ability to check inside for blitz and then swing outside as a release valve.

 

The importance of the the Jackson signing is purely adding a proven NFL commodity for depth behind 2 good runningbacks. Injuries happen, as we've already seen so far this young season.

 

Either hillis or hardesty go down, we have someone who we know can step in. Hillis & hardesty go down?? Pray for brownies

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I'd say there's a < 5% chance vickers is back with the browns. Hence on why we were the first team to take a fullback in the draft. I believe vickers would have done just fine in this new offense, the FO apparently thinks otherwise

 

As for hardesty reports are he's been looking good so far, knee looks fine and he definitely has the skills to be a good solid running back. If he stays healthy, big IF there, I could see him surpassing Hillis as our #1 back, although there wouldn't be much difference as I'd predict a 55-45 split for carries between them.

 

Hillis will not be moved to FB although we may see him line up there from time to time, id say more likely on passing scenarios where he has the ability to check inside for blitz and then swing outside as a release valve.

 

The importance of the the Jackson signing is purely adding a proven NFL commodity for depth behind 2 good runningbacks. Injuries happen, as we've already seen so far this young season.

 

Either hillis or hardesty go down, we have someone who we know can step in. Hillis & hardesty go down?? Pray for brownies

 

 

I believe the biggest reason for not re-signing Vickers thus far is because he just doesn't have the hands that Holmgren and Co. liked for the WCO. Granted, he wasn't necessarily given the greatest opportunities, he was more often than not used strictly for blocking on passing plays. His 13 receptions in 07 were the most targets he's had in a season in his entire career. Hopefully, Marecic can prove to be just as proficient in catching as he is at blocking. If it turns out that Marecic's hands aren't exactly as sticky as Holmgren and Co. would like, then I could see Hillis subbing it at FB in most passing situations.

 

I think a very large reason Jackson was added was simply his experience in the WCO as a RB. It also doesn't hurt that he has shown potential. Adding a veteran mentor is a great plan, its even better when the mentor is actually still capable of performing at the necessary level (cough...cough...Delhomme).

 

As for Hardesty... well, the jury is still out. I'd like to see him come in and tear things up, but I'm not banking on it. I'm just not getting a good vibe when it comes to Hardesty.

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I believe the biggest reason for not re-signing Vickers thus far is because he just doesn't have the hands that Holmgren and Co. liked for the WCO. Granted, he wasn't necessarily given the greatest opportunities, he was more often than not used strictly for blocking on passing plays. His 13 receptions in 07 were the most targets he's had in a season in his entire career. Hopefully, Marecic can prove to be just as proficient in catching as he is at blocking. If it turns out that Marecic's hands aren't exactly as sticky as Holmgren and Co. would like, then I could see Hillis subbing it at FB in most passing situations.

 

I think a very large reason Jackson was added was simply his experience in the WCO as a RB. It also doesn't hurt that he has shown potential. Adding a veteran mentor is a great plan, its even better when the mentor is actually still capable of performing at the necessary level (cough...cough...Delhomme).

 

As for Hardesty... well, the jury is still out. I'd like to see him come in and tear things up, but I'm not banking on it. I'm just not getting a good vibe when it comes to Hardesty.

agreed that is why vickers became expendable, but IMO it's a common misconception about him. He didn't catch balls in practice so he didnt improve on it since he came into the league. That doesnt mean that the ability isn't there. A little practice and he could have become the best all around fullback to come around in some time. Or not, who knows.

 

As for hardesty I don't think you can question his ability. He has the size, speed, vision and moves. Dudes got one of the sickest spin moves I've seen since booby miles haha. But as we all know, all the talent in the world can be negated by one bad knee.

 

And forgot Jackson played in the wco, added value is always good

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The problem isn't that we are just sitting back and dong nothing. I believe we definitly went after guys ... and some bigger name guys (Jonathan Joseph and Ray Edwards to name a couple) The problem is that GOOD players feel like we aren't a good enough team yet and they want to win. And can you blame them for thinking that. It is now the Browns job to prove them wrong and if key guys stay healthy we can do that. And next yr we can fill some holes with FA's

 

 

 

You can't say we went after Ray or John i believe we made an offer YES but it's exactly the kind of offer the other Cleveland fans here like Gip would want to offer them something to a mid range basement deal and try to get a steal and those guys laughed in our faces that's exactly what i think happened.

 

And to anyone who is trying to call me out because i am new to these boards and you are not GREAT COMEBACK i am totally in respect for your long time status but i'll be on these forums for a long time to come and will continue to point out every dumbass move we make and i will give credit where credit is due but only pointing out that i am fresh to these forums is a weak ass concept in trying to get your opinion accross the only FACT is i did offer opinions and an idea of what i would do to improve the Cleveland Browns, you can go back and read all of your post you made 5 of you only attacked me in every post so i doubt you have any clue of the business side of football i am not saying i know it all but damn i feel like i know more then most of you by leaps and bounds, while 5 of you troll my post i also feel another 5-6 also support my statement regardless if i come off as an asshole or not.

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You can't say we went after Ray or John i believe we made an offer YES but it's exactly the kind of offer the other Cleveland fans here like Gip would want to offer them something to a mid range basement deal and try to get a steal and those guys laughed in our faces that's exactly what i think happened.

 

 

You are just assuming that to support your argument. Obviously I have no clue what the offer was, and no one really does aside from the parties involved.

 

Here is the thing though ... Edwards is a good defensive end, and better then anything we have. At the same time though we have no decent DE's (rookies excluded because who knows about him)aside from Benard who is a question mark so that isn't saying much. So yeah throwing the bank at Edwards would fill a hole.

 

You have to look at it like this though ... Edwards got 5yr/30 mil to play for one of the best teams in the NFL. A team that is going to be a very sexy Super Bowl pick as the season quickly approaches. Plus he gets to play opposite one of the better D-Ends in the league in John Abraham who is going to get double teamed.

 

Coming to the Browns he will play DE with a 25 yr old NT switiching to DT for the first time in his career and 2 rookies. Instead of playing opposite the guy being double teamed (like he is used with the vikes) he is going to be the man getting double teamed. Plus the Falcons give him a better shot to win now.

 

So with all that being said he got a fair deal (IMO I think he got to much and I think he is a question mark because of the fact he played on the same line as one of the 3 best ends in football and the Williams mountains in the middle ... teams can only do so much double teaming and that let Edwards run free)6yrs 3o mil. The Browns could have easily offered him the same exact deal ... but the Pro's to play in Atlanta just outweighed the Pro's to play in Cleveland.

 

We also could have opened the wallets more ... but it probably would have taken a somewhat overwhelming offer to pry him away from a winner. And would he have been worth say ... 37.5 over 5 years? putting him at 7.5 a year?? It would have been fiscally irresponsible to pay so much to a guy who has never been the "Man" on his Dline.

 

You sell this team very short on its talent. It obviously is far from the most talented bunch in the NFL, but there is a good amount of talent and IF Colt plays well we can beat anyone and that is evident from the Saints, Pats, and Jets games last yr ...And we have gotten better from last year (unless all of our picks lay an egg)

 

And BTW Edwards supposedly very impressed with the way the organization was run.

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You can't say we went after Ray or John i believe we made an offer YES but it's exactly the kind of offer the other Cleveland fans here like Gip would want to offer them something to a mid range basement deal and try to get a steal and those guys laughed in our faces that's exactly what i think happened.

 

You have no f**king idea what I would want the Browns to do. All you seem to want to do is to roll around fecklessly in your own feculence.

What I want the Browns to do is to acquire good talent at a fair market value price.

What I also want is for the professionals on this team to do their jobs. Jobs that I nor you have any capability of performing. Tom Heckert has a record of success at doing that job. I will defer to his capabilities.

 

And to anyone who is trying to call me out because i am new to these boards and you are not GREAT COMEBACK i am totally in respect for your long time status but i'll be on these forums for a long time to come and will continue to point out every dumbass move we make and i will give credit where credit is due but only pointing out that i am fresh to these forums is a weak ass concept in trying to get your opinion accross the only FACT is i did offer opinions and an idea of what i would do to improve the Cleveland Browns, you can go back and read all of your post you made 5 of you only attacked me in every post so i doubt you have any clue of the business side of football i am not saying i know it all but damn i feel like i know more then most of you by leaps and bounds, while 5 of you troll my post i also feel another 5-6 also support my statement regardless if i come off as an asshole or not.

 

Well, I do believe it is your style and not your substance that has aggravated people. And it is not that you are a newbie. There are lots of newbies. It is the fact that you have come off as an asshole, not as a newbie. I said that I think you are reading the talent on this team wrongly....and you start making personal insults at me over it. How do you expect someone to react? Overall I don't think we disagree on most of the points you have made here.

But, now that you have made your Act of Contrition you can complete your penance by simply saying 5 Hail Marys...an add an additional prayer that the Browns can get a receiver that can catch a Hail Mary.

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You can't say we went after Ray or John i believe we made an offer YES but it's exactly the kind of offer the other Cleveland fans here like Gip would want to offer them something to a mid range basement deal and try to get a steal and those guys laughed in our faces that's exactly what i think happened.

 

And to anyone who is trying to call me out because i am new to these boards and you are not GREAT COMEBACK i am totally in respect for your long time status but i'll be on these forums for a long time to come and will continue to point out every dumbass move we make and i will give credit where credit is due but only pointing out that i am fresh to these forums is a weak ass concept in trying to get your opinion accross the only FACT is i did offer opinions and an idea of what i would do to improve the Cleveland Browns, you can go back and read all of your post you made 5 of you only attacked me in every post so i doubt you have any clue of the business side of football i am not saying i know it all but damn i feel like i know more then most of you by leaps and bounds, while 5 of you troll my post i also feel another 5-6 also support my statement regardless if i come off as an asshole or not.

 

No one can point out and say something is a bad move until it is proven to be a bad move. We don't know if not signing some top name FA's this year will effect us until we see how we do during the season and we see how the big names perform at there new teams. Running around and shouting that the FO is failing us because they are not breaking the bank of unproven top name FA's (and if you think Edwards is anything but unprooven then you are mistaken) is pointless until we can actually see how the team can do without them and what those FA's are going to do for their team. I mean did anyone think our draft from last year was going to do anything? Everyone jumped on the "H&H xxxxed up!" bandwagon because Haden was slow and no one knew who Ward was and it ended up giving us 3 starters last year and this year we could have 4-5 players starting from that draft! Just cool you jets and at least wait until the first few games to declare our FO failures for not perusing FA's.

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No one can point out and say something is a bad move until it is proven to be a bad move. We don't know if not signing some top name FA's this year will effect us until we see how we do during the season and we see how the big names perform at there new teams. Running around and shouting that the FO is failing us because they are not breaking the bank of unproven top name FA's (and if you think Edwards is anything but unprooven then you are mistaken) is pointless until we can actually see how the team can do without them and what those FA's are going to do for their team. I mean did anyone think our draft from last year was going to do anything? Everyone jumped on the "H&H xxxxed up!" bandwagon because Haden was slow and no one knew who Ward was and it ended up giving us 3 starters last year and this year we could have 4-5 players starting from that draft! Just cool you jets and at least wait until the first few games to declare our FO failures for not perusing FA's.

 

 

I just have a problem with a majority of the posters who think free agency and trades right now will not improve our team.

 

Atlanta, Philly, NYJ, Pats, and even the Seahawks i thought we're very dominate in the market this year and i truly believe all 5 of those are playoff bound this year, I would like to hear any thought on who the hell has to fall off to get the browns to move up i seriously have the browns at 11-5 lemme say that again 11-5 i posted the games i thought we could win in another thread and in most cases i hear 9-7 10-6 etc.

 

If we're a 9-7 or better team right now the way we think we are.... then why not get the free agents to put us over the top and start getting to the playoffs next 4-6 years starting now instead of waiting 3 years and hoping for top 10s? To be honest i want 4-6 years in the playoffs i could carelss if Luck, Undytani, or even Jesus was available over the next 3 years and we had a shot for him don't care.

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I just have a problem with a majority of the posters who think free agency and trades right now will not improve our team.

 

Atlanta, Philly, NYJ, Pats, and even the Seahawks i thought we're very dominate in the market this year and i truly believe all 5 of those are playoff bound this year, I would like to hear any thought on who the hell has to fall off to get the browns to move up i seriously have the browns at 11-5 lemme say that again 11-5 i posted the games i thought we could win in another thread and in most cases i hear 9-7 10-6 etc.

 

If we're a 9-7 or better team right now the way we think we are.... then why not get the free agents to put us over the top and start getting to the playoffs next 4-6 years starting now instead of waiting 3 years and hoping for top 10s? To be honest i want 4-6 years in the playoffs i could carelss if Luck, Undytani, or even Jesus was available over the next 3 years and we had a shot for him don't care.

 

One last time....

 

Hey here's a guy who could help us Want Him Back?.

 

Atlanta, Philly, NYJ, Pats, and even the Seahawks now think real hard about what the difference between those teams and the Browns is? If you answer THEY WERE ALL PLAYOFF TEAMS IN 2010 go to the head of the class. Like 90% of the other guys here said- including a couple of our knowledgeable Steeler trolls- with the exception of Seattle, they're making a Super Bowl push. And common sense should tell you if you're rebuilding, don't go for the aging vets that will be out of football by the time you're ready to try for the Super Bowl. Yeah- we got FAs Anderson and Lewis and went 10-6, next year whoops, 4-12 right back in the toilet. Is that what you want?

 

I looked back for your list of Patriots & Saints FA- well, it's gone- if it was deleted, it wasn't me. And that list IIRC was mighty short on starters, and even shorter on major contributors- Like maybe Vrable, Patten, and injury risk Brees.

 

You're thinking 11-5? or was it 6-10? Make up your mind. The Browns won't be bad enough to take a shot at Andrew Luck either- I have the Bengals as the current leader in the clubhouse in that regard.

 

So like others have suggested, you want Holmgren and Heckert to start signing Free Agents this year? So start naming them, and tell us why they'd be a good fit for the Browns, instead of just crying we're not signing anybody.

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We also have to remember there were probably several players we wanted to draft who might not make their club. Same goes for UDFA players.

 

 

 

As some of those guys get cut, I have a feeling we still have their phone numbers.

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Hoorta when i go down our schedule we play a majority of 500 and under teams this year and in most cases i thought the browns could win most of them i gave the random 2-3 games back for complete randomness and i kept hitting 10-6 and 11-5 consistently going down the list, i think we will beat teams like the Bengals, Chiefs, Raiders, 49'ers, Seahawks etc etc maybe the most favorable schedule we have had since 2007.

 

I am just going to hate if we do well we're going to be kicking ourself for not making some moves and our draft pick next year sits between 14-19 and mid second and we have a memorable 11-5 season but easily forgetable when we get crushed away into the playoffs

 

Yes i am saying we will be in the playoffs this year I AM REJOINING THE DREAMTEAM WE WILL BE 11-5 Mark it down.

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agreed that is why vickers became expendable, but IMO it's a common misconception about him. He didn't catch balls in practice so he didnt improve on it since he came into the league. That doesnt mean that the ability isn't there. A little practice and he could have become the best all around fullback to come around in some time. Or not, who knows.

 

As for hardesty I don't think you can question his ability. He has the size, speed, vision and moves. Dudes got one of the sickest spin moves I've seen since booby miles haha. But as we all know, all the talent in the world can be negated by one bad knee.

 

And forgot Jackson played in the wco, added value is always good

 

 

I've never been to a Browns practice so I can't comment on what he was asked to do then, but it does seem highly likely he wasn't asked to catch very many passes out of the backfield. You've got to practice every aspect of your game to stay afloat in this league, and if he wasn't catching balls throughout the week then it makes sense why his receiving numbers on Sundays left something to be desired.

 

All in all, it would have been a much more painful move if there wasn't so much hype around this Marecic kid. From the college tapes, the kid looks to be a stud, I hope it translates well into the NFL.

 

I'm not questioning Hardesty's ability as much as I'm questioning his health of his legs. He truly is a freak of nature. Like you said, he's got a nasty spin move, there's no question about that. The thing is, he's a large guy who moves like a scat back at times, and eventually something will have to go. Add his college injuries into the mix, and it doesn't paint a favorable picture of the longevity of his career, or whether he'll even have one.

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Hoorta when i go down our schedule we play a majority of 500 and under teams this year and in most cases i thought the browns could win most of them i gave the random 2-3 games back for complete randomness and i kept hitting 10-6 and 11-5 consistently going down the list, i think we will beat teams like the Bengals, Chiefs, Raiders, 49'ers, Seahawks etc etc maybe the most favorable schedule we have had since 2007.

 

I am just going to hate if we do well we're going to be kicking ourself for not making some moves and our draft pick next year sits between 14-19 and mid second and we have a memorable 11-5 season but easily forgetable when we get crushed away into the playoffs

 

Yes i am saying we will be in the playoffs this year I AM REJOINING THE DREAMTEAM WE WILL BE 11-5 Mark it down.

 

With old age comes wisdom- and historical perspective. Now you could say teams come out of nowhere every year and hope this is the Browns year. Or teams that you think will do well- remember year two of the Derek suckdom regime, when everybody and their uncle had us penciled in for the playoffs, only to see the Browns lay a humongous egg? I'm not drinking the Kool Aid yet, not by a long shot. We have an entirely new coaching staff, offensive & defensive system and damn little time to get it in place. DL and LB is mighty thin, and in the case of DL green. WR is a big question mark. Is McCoy the real deal, or a 4 game flash in the pan?

 

If we lose to the Bengals on Opening Day- the only team on the Browns schedule right now I feel confident the Browns will be able to beat twice, we're in big BIG trouble. That scenario plays out I could easily envision the Browns being 0-4 at the bye. Historically, the Browns have played poorly on the West Coast and they have two road trips there.

 

I really have no gut feeling how well the Browns will do this year, but I'm hoping for 8-8, and it could be worse- a LOT worse. As to 11-5 or even the playoffs, no way Jose. Tell you what- we make the playoffs, the beer's on me at the Tailgate. I'll have to get Ed one of those infrared heaters to have him cook out in January.

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With old age comes wisdom- and historical perspective. Now you could say teams come out of nowhere every year and hope this is the Browns year. Or teams that you think will do well- remember year two of the Derek suckdom regime, when everybody and their uncle had us penciled in for the playoffs, only to see the Browns lay a humongous egg? I'm not drinking the Kool Aid yet, not by a long shot. We have an entirely new coaching staff, offensive & defensive system and damn little time to get it in place. DL and LB is mighty thin, and in the case of DL green. WR is a big question mark. Is McCoy the real deal, or a 4 game flash in the pan?

 

If we lose to the Bengals on Opening Day- the only team on the Browns schedule right now I feel confident the Browns will be able to beat twice, we're in big BIG trouble. That scenario plays out I could easily envision the Browns being 0-4 at the bye. Historically, the Browns have played poorly on the West Coast and they have two road trips there.

 

I really have no gut feeling how well the Browns will do this year, but I'm hoping for 8-8, and it could be worse- a LOT worse. As to 11-5 or even the playoffs, no way Jose. Tell you what- we make the playoffs, the beer's on me at the Tailgate. I'll have to get Ed one of those infrared heaters to have him cook out in January.

 

 

 

I'll slam that beer down happy as xxxx we're in the playoffs lol, if we are 0-4 by the bye.... i have us at 3-1 i swear to god if it's complete goose eggs no xxxxing way i might be protesting outside berea until i am banned for life.

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