Westside Steve Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 So I don't really want to ask about any particular moves but just about your overall enthusiasm. I try to be a pretty positive guy I do realize that we went 3 and 13 with these guys last season. And collapsed the second half of the Season before. That being said even though I realize that coach Pettine was not anybody's first choice, I like the guy and his attitude and his play like a Brown mantra. I liked Ray Farmer and his experience. I was excited about the background that Mike Holmgren brought to the team. I was excited about Hometown boy Rob Chudzinski Now I realize the NFL is falling over themselves to praise Hue Jackson. Maybe it's partially because I hate the Bengals, maybe it's partially because I'm not choked up by some dipshit attorney in charge of the roster, maybe partially because so far I don't have any faith in this Analytics scam with a baseball jag off at the helm, and maybe it's because I have a hard time getting behind a stupid Tennessee Hillbillies wife calling the shots but I'm finding it harder to be excited over this year's biannual remake. I don't mean to be a negative dickhead like a lot of the guys here and I will do my best to cheer up, make excuses for our guys and hope for the best but am I alone in this feeling of disappointment? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Right now, today, I'm feeling gutted, much like the core of our team. Hopefully the guys have a few 'solid' FA signings up their sleeve to fill holes and allow us to go BPA in the draft. The likes of Wisniewski at center, Jahri Evans, Boldin/Sanu at WR, for example. Should that happen, my enthusiasm will go back up, but right now I feel like failing to retain at least a couple of the guys we've lost has set us back. They were not the problem, or at least were way down the list of problems for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joedawg69 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Hey westside, I am sure you are not alone. Being at the bottom of the barrel is never a happy time but someone has to be there and history shows that no matter how long someone is there other teams will take their place at some point. It is disappointing to lose guys that have worked so hard for us but there may be more to it that we don't get to hear about. A good example would be worthless agents screwing everything up or players just wanting to move on after having no consistency here. I don't know what will happen next but that does not mean that this cannot be the time for Cleveland to turn things around like the other bottom of the barrel teams in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Disappointment? Too mild a word........................................ How about shocked? Or befuddled?..............................I'm wondering how our Tenn. businessman is feeling today after hearing how we wanted to retain our FAs and can't even keep 1 of the main 4. I know I'd be wondering how I explain this to a long suffering fan base that likely now thinks that this team has just been dismantled. How can they even face a press conference? They had better have a very good story and present the long term plan, because right now Cleveland fans sure don't see one. I know I don't but then again.......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 They're aware that compensatory picks don't go in to the first round, right? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 They're aware that compensatory picks don't go in to the first round, right? Just curious. But loading up on middle round kids to develop is likely their strategy. Only speculation at this point. An aside, Sashi was in Jacksonville when they started this type of strategy. I believe they traded Eugene Monroe for a 6th round pick around that time. The Jags used those picks to build up their offense and compliment their defense. They then just made the big free agency splash with a ton of the cap they had. We shall see how their strategy turns out this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 An aside, Sashi was in Jacksonville when they started this type of strategy. I believe they traded Eugene Monroe for a 6th round pick around that time. The Jags used those picks to build up their offense and compliment their defense. They then just made the big free agency splash with a ton of the cap they had. We shall see how their strategy turns out this season. So we are the 2011 Jaguars? That would mean that after we go 2-14,4-12, and 3-13, we will have a hopefull 5-11 team in 2019 and hope to contend for a playoff spot in 2020. Is that how they sold it to Joe Thomas when they convinced him to stay? Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 So we are the 2011 Jaguars? That would mean that after we go 2-14,4-12, and 3-13, we will have a hopefull 5-11 team in 2019 and hope to contend for a playoff spot in 2020. Is that how they sold it to Joe Thomas when they convinced him to stay? Zombo They have been accruing talent. We will see how that shakes out this year. I wouldn't be shocked if Joe gets sent off to another team on draft day. Not what I would prefer but just fits the signature of these types of rebuilds. By the time they would have a team built around him, Joe would be 34-35. This team stinks and doesn't have much in terms of talent. It will suck but it appears this front office is looking over the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 If we trade Joe Thomas for a first rounder and some other bits and pieces (role player, day two pick stuff like that)...I won't be shocked, or disappointed. He's now a vet trying to heal the phoenix. No point, just let it die and be reborn from the ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 ... I'm finding it harder to be excited over this year's biannual remake. Say it aint so, bro! Third round compensatory picks in 2017 for some of the talent lost is small solace, but it's better than no solace at all. Plus there is the fact that in 2017 the comp picks are tradeable... (unless of course we again accumulate too many in which case the league will vote to delay trading them another year...) I think we can all find disappointment with at least one player lost to FA, one FA not signed... lost to another team, but FA is not over and the Draftman cometh... Remember... could be worse... could be raining... which it's been doing here for 36 hours and counting. Disaster areas all around me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 They have been accruing talent. We will see how that shakes out this year. I wouldn't be shocked if Joe gets sent off to another team on draft day. Not what I would prefer but just fits the signature of these types of rebuilds. By the time they would have a team built around him, Joe would be 34-35. This team stinks and doesn't have much in terms of talent. It will suck but it appears this front office is looking over the long haul. Of course A Team willing to pay what he's worth would probably be someone in the hunt. Denver would be off the board since they have no quarterback now. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I guess, that other teams know the weaknesses of the Browns a lot more than other hc's and gm's with the Browns over the years did. Now, the Browns want to restructure to boost the running game. All they need to do is add a few power olinemen, and draft that running back from Alabama.....and... wait. Let me think on that a moment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Of course A Team willing to pay what he's worth would probably be someone in the hunt. Denver would be off the board since they have no quarterback now. WSS The Giants seem to be in a giving mood. Maybe they need a LT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 All they need to do is add a few power olinemen, and draft that running back from Alabama.....and... wait. Let me think on that a moment.... Tex just started dancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 So I don't really want to ask about any particular moves but just about your overall enthusiasm. I try to be a pretty positive guy I do realize that we went 3 and 13 with these guys last season. And collapsed the second half of the Season before. That being said even though I realize that coach Pettine was not anybody's first choice, I like the guy and his attitude and his play like a Brown mantra. I liked Ray Farmer and his experience. I was excited about the background that Mike Holmgren brought to the team. I was excited about Hometown boy Rob Chudzinski Now I realize the NFL is falling over themselves to praise Hue Jackson. Maybe it's partially because I hate the Bengals, maybe it's partially because I'm not choked up by some dipshit attorney in charge of the roster, maybe partially because so far I don't have any faith in this Analytics scam with a baseball jag off at the helm, and maybe it's because I have a hard time getting behind a stupid Tennessee Hillbillies wife calling the shots but I'm finding it harder to be excited over this year's biannual remake. I don't mean to be a negative dickhead like a lot of the guys here and I will do my best to cheer up, make excuses for our guys and hope for the best but am I alone in this feeling of disappointment? WSS I'm not down on Sashi and Hue ... I can buy into these guys. I'm down on the fact that Right Now we feel like an expansion team that happens to have Joe Thomas. There is nothing built here. It is a complete reboot, and Hue jackson will play the role of Chris Palmer and Wentz/Goff will be in the role of Tim Couch, and we are going to try this all again. We just can't retain any of the decent guys we draft or find, even if those guys turn out to be really nice draft picks like Mitch Schwartz (2nd) or Travis Benjamin (4th) or terrific udfa finds like Tashaun Gipson. I think when Farmer got the job, we were frustrated with rebooting again ... but there was something to work with ... Thomas, Mack, Haden, Ward, Gordon, etc ... and TONS of draft picks. Lombardi and Banner left us SET UP for the draft. But he blew them in record fashion. And he couldn't keep any of the good ones Heckert drafted. The whole thing HAD to blow up, I understand it, but it still hurts because we are seemingly SO FAR away. We are once again asked to take a leap of faith, and us loyal sonsabitches will take it ... but, damn, in all likelihood we are off on a path of the 99 Browns ... two years of suckage, one year of hope, playoffs in year four. If Depodesta and these guys can Moneyball us a winning team together faster, that would be great because there are a lot of Great Browns fans who do not deserve even one more losing season. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren15 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Can you imagine the green room at the draft after the Titans pick you will see a host of top prospects going to the bathroom or seen in the corner whispering at their phone....please don't ring, please don't ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Can you imagine the green room at the draft after the Titans pick you will see a host of top prospects going to the bathroom or seen in the corner whispering at their phone....please don't ring, please don't ring Biggest cheer of the night at that point - "the cleveland browns have traded the number two overall pick..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Can you imagine the green room at the draft after the Titans pick you will see a host of top prospects going to the bathroom or seen in the corner whispering at their phone....please don't ring, please don't ring "Please don't make me a millionaire...oh please don't do that!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Of course in the days of the big reboot Tim Couch was the hands down FrontRunner big time quarterback. I don't think either of the two guys available near the top are anywhere near him. So we are 1990 with Joe Thomas instead of Jim Pyne. And yes I will lighten up sooner or later try and understand the reboot and Hope that after 2 years of failure it doesn't all start again. But I think I'm going to need at least A5 or 6 win season before I can walk into the crime scene without Vicks Vapor Rub smeared under my nose if you know what I mean. WSS Edit: and that's assuming that the powers-that-be don't wait until a mid-round and select one of Emmett's picks at quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I don't mean to be a negative dickhead like a lot of the guys here and I will do my best to cheer up, make excuses for our guys and hope for the best but am I alone in this feeling of disappointment? No...you're not.....but my disappointment didnt start yesterday afternoon, it started waaay back...maybe mid way through last season and it peaked with the complete reset at the end of the season.....and thats when a touch of apathy started to creep in.... I know Ive been ranting against the ranting since yesterday....so, I promise, this is my last rant on the whole FA thing....Im disappointed too, but do have an aversion to all the whining and crying...all the time....its like being in a nursery full of wet diapers..... Im not surprised by what went down yesterday and am more surprised that no one saw it coming...... 1) Mack.....Who honestly thought Mack was staying??.....he's been threatening to leave for 3 years now and finally did. So no surprise there. At all. Honestly, I prefer he does, because rather than accepting they could play better and trying to be part of the solution, he opted to just leave....which in my mind is quitting and blaming "others" for his teams failure....I want a fighter who will work toward the solution.....so, again, not at all surprised and we got exactly what was expected from him..... 2) Gipson....my dislike for him started last year during his hold out and his little twitter campaign. Have alwaysa felt he had an over inflated sense of his value and was more about the money, than team. I campaigned a year ago NOT to pay this guy and felt he wouldnt be "all that"....and his 2015 season proved out to be below average.....so, again, another guy I expected to leave and not a surprise at all....... 3) Benji.....ok, I like Benji well enough, but definitely wasnt on the Benji train. Been campaigning for weeks now NOT to overpay him for one "ok" season. And, I guess, I got what I asked for. We tried for months to sign him....both FO's.....and he opted out. So, in the now famous words of John Elway, I want guys who want to be here.....and Im definitely tired of overpaid under performing palyers....and we have a roster full of them..... 4) Sashi and the new FO......again....fought to the death trying to prevent another reset. Screamed that IF we were gonna do it, lets at least get some experienced talent in the FO, because the last team Haslam assembled was too green. Debated and debated that we had a dearth of talent and a bunch of over paid non performers that NO coach could win with. And we were rewarded with a new FO of green green green harvard boys, who were smarter than everybody else. But I wasnt even close to excited about these guys...or the structure...or Shashi....or any of it. THATS when the apathy set in and I sensed another year or 2 of pain, while they learned how to run a team. So....again.....not surprised that they failed in their first attempt at the whirlwind that is day one of FA.....and I expect some more growing pains to come...... 5) Schwartz....this is the one that really bothers me. He was the one guy I felt strongly about keeping and am deeply disappointed they didnt find a way. Had a lot of time to do it too. But, their inexperience cost them and the Browns a quality home grown player. But...But, you reap what you sow....and Jimmy has sowed a field of green FO talent again and it showed clearly yesterday. And, I think, will continue going forward.....hence....apathy... So...we can yell....and scream....and roll on the floor....but anyone who didnt see this coming is blind....and anyone who thought Mack was staying is blind too.....and anyone who thought Gipson or Benji were all world talents or the difference between winning and losing would be mistaken .... I know......Farmer seemed like he thought he knew it all.......but at least he wasnt declared as the smartest FO in the league......GO HARVARD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Tex just started dancing. Was it that visible? LOL! We had better get a few road graders in here from FA fast then. Otherwise we have far greater needs than RB. Hey Mud. We get to bitch during the shock wave. If you knew we would lose that many while SB was telling us we needed to retain them, then you should have warned us in advance he was blowing smoke up our collective ass. But today is a new day........................................................so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 2) Gipson....my dislike for him started last year during his hold out and his little twitter campaign. Not that I needed that tidbit to agree with you, but I had forgotten it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/03/if_cleveland_browns_fans_are_s.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Also, Mud, I pretty much agree with you especially on point number 4 and about Alex Mack and Gipson who I haven't liked for a while. And I assume Benjamin is expendable butt why, unless we get somebody better 4 a decent price? And I think it was idiotic to let Mitchell walk. And about the article it would have been nice if Tom Reed might have gotten a statement instead of just guessing. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Hey Mud. We get to bitch during the shock wave. If you knew we would lose that many while SB was telling us we needed to retain them, then you should have warned us in advance he was blowing smoke up our collective ass. But today is a new day........................................................so I understand(honestly...I do)....and we all get to bitch about what bugs us.....that includes me too.....always good to have a counter point, right or wrong.....so Im happy to provide it..... I guess I hoped the new FO would be better than I feared, so I wasnt gonna slam them before they had a chance to do something....but I definitely typed a hell of a lot of words over the last several months about my concerns for another reset....sorry you missed it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 And about the article it would have been nice if Tom Reed might have gotten a statement instead of just guessing. WSS Wonder if Joe is mad at the Browns or if he's mad that his teammates left him at the alter.....I know the Browns offered Mack $10 mil, so they obviously would have had to pay him more to stay....which would put his salary at or above Joes(11mil)......so, either Joe did the right thing by signing a reasonable deal or Mack priced himself out of town....wonder what Joes perspective on that is??..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Different Day, Same Shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Wonder if Joe is mad at the Browns or if he's mad that his teammates left him at the alter.....I know the Browns offered Mack $10 mil, so they obviously would have had to pay him more to stay....which would put his salary at or above Joes(11mil)......so, either Joe did the right thing by signing a reasonable deal or Mack priced himself out of town....wonder what Joes perspective on that is??..... Yep, wondering how Joe Thomas feels about all of this. As has been said, this is a full, full rebuild, and by the time we get close, he'll be five years from canton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I understand(honestly...I do)....and we all get to bitch about what bugs us.....that includes me too.....always good to have a counter point, right or wrong.....so Im happy to provide it..... I guess I hoped the new FO would be better than I feared, so I wasnt gonna slam them before they had a chance to do something....but I definitely typed a hell of a lot of words over the last several months about my concerns for another reset....sorry you missed it...... Yep, but I don't think even you saw losing all 4 coming. That is why it felt like a betrayal of trust to hear one thing from SB and get totally opposite results a la George Costanza. Maybe he should have said we are a shit team and people will outbid us for these "key players" as he called them. OK-"starting now!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darubes Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Look at it the positive way. We are the favorites to draft #1 #1 in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Look at it the positive way. We are the favorites to draft #1 #1 in 2017. And at the moment Vegas agrees with you. And it's not even close to 2nd worst. Last update was Monday so it dos not account for FA signings or losses yet. http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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