Westside Steve Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Why do they hate us? How are they able to convince young adults to grab some money and travel half way around the world to join? How do we find a way not only to win this war but to make sure we don't create the next group? This doesn't directly answer your question but though I have never seen one I have heard there is a market for snuff films and they can be obtain with less trouble than one might think. what's the point? The point is that there are fucked up people in the world who just might think that the power over life and death they could wield by joining an insane organization like this was intoxicating. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Why do they hate us? How are they able to convince young adults to grab some money and travel half way around the world to join? How do we find a way not only to win this war but to make sure we don't create the next group? You don't find a way. You eliminate them. No matter what you do, they will still hate you. Unless you convert to Islam and behead someone, then they may accept you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 You don't find a way. You eliminate them. No matter what you do, they will still hate you. Unless you convert to Islam and behead someone, then they may accept you. How well did that work against Al-qaeda? We basically wiped them out and now one of their splinter groups (ISIS) is 10x worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Because you were morally opposed to the company or didn't like the job offer? WSS Cuz I didn't like the job offer Though it was my highest salaried offer by far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 So what is your solution? ISIS is not ten times worse. They will be defeated. They are already being defeated in Iraq. I haven't yet seen them do a 9/11 attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Actually I think I said respond to butchery with even more severe butchery. And I certainly said we don't have the stomach to do it. So we fuck around hope they get tired of it. I don't know what type of negotiation or appeasement or recognition might bring them into the world of civilization. What do you think? WSS It's not that we don't have the stomach to do it, but we have the brains not to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 It's not that we don't have the stomach to do it, but we have the brains not to Well that's fine. Still the question, unless I got it wrong, was how do we defeat them. Without extreme measures I don't suppose we can. So perhaps learn to live with them like we will with a nuclear Iran. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 ISIS is the symptom. We can keep 'treating' it by killing them, but the underlying cause means that groups like this will always pop up, like whack-a-terrorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 ISIS is the symptom. We can keep 'treating' it by killing them, but the underlying cause means that groups like this will always pop up, like whack-a-terrorist. I see a big underlying cause as the koran itself. Everything ISIS and Islamic terrorists do they feel justified doing it with the backing from scriptures from the koran. It is from the verses in the koran they cut off heads and kill those who don't believe as they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 I see a big underlying cause as the koran itself. Everything ISIS and Islamic terrorists do they feel justified doing it with the backing from scriptures from the koran. It is from the verses in the koran they cut off heads and kill those who don't believe as they do. And Islam is unique in that it is the only religion people do/ have fone terrible things in the name of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 People have done terrible things in the name of religion including Christianity but this religion is unique in this way: The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter. Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Which is apparently why Os never answered my question to him about that. It's just true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Christians were violent......hundreds of years ago. Islam has been at the heart of a lion's share of mass violence today. I hate when people try to use that argument about Christians not being able to point a finger at Islam because of the Crusades. You know...the Crusades that started in 1095... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Christians were violent......hundreds of years ago. Islam has been at the heart of a lion's share of mass violence today. I hate when people try to use that argument about Christians not being able to point a finger at Islam because of the Crusades. You know...the Crusades that started in 1095... I agree. Obama is the one who most recently made that comparison. There have always been some people who have done evil things in the name of religion and Christianity is not exempt. For Obama though to go on that rabbit trail with all the evil acts being done today by Islamic terrorists (Obama cannot even bring himself to say those words) makes no sense. http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2015/02/10/Obama-s-Crusade-Video-Bolsters-ISIS-Propaganda-Campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 There is a whole world of difference between allowing discussion about ISIS and endorsing what they do. The standard american "HULK SMASH!!!" response to things like this advocated by so many here will only get you so far. You can kill the soldiers/terrorists, with some long protracted ground war, but killing their ideology is much, much more difficult. A lot of the people joining them are young, and will be around for decades to come - the ideology will live on in them, and they in turn will recruit more. It is imperative to destroying ISIS that we understand their motives, in order to counter their recruitment drives. Here: read and understandhttp://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 ISIS is the symptom. We can keep 'treating' it by killing them, but the underlying cause means that groups like this will always pop up, like whack-a-terrorist. Fuck yea we can. More drones, more strikes, more blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Yep. Britain has at least one Neville Chamberlein groupie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Christians were violent......hundreds of years ago. Islam has been at the heart of a lion's share of mass violence today. I hate when people try to use that argument about Christians not being able to point a finger at Islam because of the Crusades. You know...the Crusades that started in 1095... I am just making the point that most religions have been used as an excuse for violence at some point. No, it doesn't excuse what's happening now. No, even though this violence is coming from third world shitholes, we should be past this by now. I think it is just incorrect to call Islam inherently more violent than other religions, when people reading the sane book as today justified what they were doing centuries ago. There are Islamic countries that exist which are as normal as any other. That's my point. By not calling every Muslim a terrorist, I'm not siding with ISIS. That seems to be lost on some here (not you). And like I've said many times, I'd prefer just no religious influence at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Look at the punishments in these so called 'normal' muslim countries and get back to me...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Look at the punishments in these so called 'normal' muslim countries and get back to me...... Or look at the lack of punishment for many awful crimes here. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I met a girl the other night who was 20 years old from Sydney, Australia. She was a Muslim and her family set up an "arranged" marriage. She got on a plane to LA and never looked back. Told me it was a living hell. Strict parents never let her do anything and now she's a party animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 ISIS is the symptom. We can keep 'treating' it by killing them, but the underlying cause means that groups like this will always pop up, like whack-a-terrorist. Ok. Give ME two or three guesses as to what we might do to make them happy and play nice? (converting the United States and the Western European countries Islam doesn't seem to be a viable option to me but...) WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Ok. Give ME two or three guesses as to what we might do to make them happy and play nice? (converting the United States and the Western European countries Islam doesn't seem to be a viable option to me but...) WSS There isn't some simple, quick fix to stopping this. Destroyingan ideolgogy is a very difficult thing to do, and will take a long time. To that end: 1. Disable their recruiting ability. The majority of western joiners seem to be people disillusioned with western life for one of many reasons that are too numerous to go in to here. They see a chance to strike at the establishment by joining IS and for personal advancement at the same time, something they could not achieve in their home country. Power, security, women, whatever. So, stop that kind of disillusion at home. The majority of 'native' joiners, that is exisitning Muslims, seem to see the westwen world as a war machine bent on wiping out Islam and exploiting the middle east for financial gain, through oil and arms. It is very difficult to change that view if the only interaction people have with the western worod is being on the business end of a drone strike. They see IS as protecting them, as wel as striking back against the infidel oppressors. Of course, if we do nothing then the enemy gain confidence; if we obliterate too much with too much collateral damage, we turn more people against us. It is a difficult line to walk and I don't know how best to proceed. 2. With regards to Islam in particular being a vessel of violence, we need more literacy and critical thinking from the general public to a low them to think for themselves and not just swallow whole what their preachers are telling them. something that would be good everywhere, tbf. Also needed are more moderate preachers and clerics that are willing and able to stand up to the violent ones, showing that their self proclaimed religion of peace is indeed that. 3. Somewhere between the two points is the amount of people joining and supporting IS because they are exterminating the 'wrong' type of Muslims that are living a more moderate life. I don't expect the leaders to change their mind, but it is very important that people understand that religious freedom is a thing, that you can't force your religion on others, then kill them for not following it. This is just off the top of my head, a fairly rough response but I think gets the general gist across. I'm not saying we need to invite people for tea and crumpets and introduce then to our mothers - We need to stop them from being converted in the first place, and we can only do that by understanding why they are converting to or supporting IS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I guess beyond the fact that your first suggestion, at least I believe, is impossible (controlling their communication worldwide and making prospective recruits happy somehow) I believe your emphasis on religious teaching is off the mark. I understand atheists like to blame religion for much of the evil of the world but I would suggest that the evil exists within people and they will look for an excuse to use it. It seems to me the recruits from Western countries are not destitute and illiterate but, like Patty Hearst, spoiled middle class assholes who get to play soldier. I realize the prospect of killing each and every one of them is probably remote. making them happy somehow is just as unrealistic, probably more. give them anything and they have won. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Also expecting them to heed the moderate Muslims, if in fact it's actually religion that makes them insane , is ridiculous. Edit and I believe there are plenty of moderate Muslims it's just anyone would decide to follow Isis an entirely different breed. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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