Zombo Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 Hoyer not only has a very un-Browns like 97.5 QB rating, but there are two big stats that don't show up in passer ratings: Sacks and fumbles. And Hoyer has only been sacked 4 times for 26 yards in three games and has not one single turnover. Brandon who? If Terrance West and Isiah Crowell were one guy, they would be the top RB in the NFL right now: 74 carries, 345 yards, 5 TDs, 4.7 ypa, 115 ypg. Starter Tate returns soon, 4.8 ypa his career, 6.8 in game one. Willis who? Starting WRS have glue fingers: Hawkins has caught 66% of passes thrown to him, Austin, 60%. Please, please, please stay in the playoff hunt until November so we can add Josh Gordon to those two. We have two punt return yards as a team. I don't bring that up to draw attention to the punt return team ... ... the fucking defense Despite the impressive running game on offense, our defense has given up much more yards, making everybody an All Pro with numbers of 89 carries, 461 yards, and 5.2 ypa in just three games. Despite our efficient passing numbers our defense gives away the game by allowing and extra 42 passing yards per game than our offense accumulates. 31st in total yards given up, 30th in first downs given up, 27th in passing yards given up, 28th in rushing yards given up, 30th in rushing ypa given up, 31st in average drive length ... we can't stop the run, we can't stop the pass, yet all three games come down to a last second FG. If this defense wakes up at all, we start winning games. And if we are 5-5 or better when Gordon comes back we have a legit playoff shot. Looking at our schedule, that is easily accomplished if the defense buys into the scheme and plays up to its talent level. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 I agree. The drop in D stats are surprising and unexpected. It's not any one issue but a team effort for the most part. I've noticed we're stronger up the middle than to sides in both passing and running situations, including screen passes. So while the front 3 need to tighten up and mind their gaps, I really think the emphasis has to be on the OLB's and CB's. Containment, pass rush, and 1x1 coverage needs improvement. Let's hope they get it straightened out in the bye-week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 I have no idea why the defense has just fallen apart. Can't stop the run. What's up with Joe Haden? Gilbert has played lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 I have no idea why the defense has just fallen apart. Can't stop the run. What's up with Joe Haden? Gilbert has played lost. The gilbert thing should be expected when you start a rookie the first three games of the season, but you have to cover it up with a pass rush, I certainly didn't see enough of one on Sunday. And haden has not been clutch. All that said, if we don't fix the run D it is a long season no matter what. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 The raiders a couple of years ago had an awesome D. On paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthros Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 It's scheme I guarantee it. They are all over playing their parts. Trying to do too much outside of the scheme. Question is will they adjust the scheme or try and adjust the players...? The offense had a complete buy-in it seems, the defense...not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 I agree - it's the scheme and the buy in. Last year, I felt we were stopping the run after two yards that this year ends up being 4-5 yards. That makes a huge difference over the course of the drive. It's rarely third and long anymore (not that it was much help to us last year, but you get what I mean. I also feel that there were less big plays against the D, especially on the run. Do we have stats to compare the D (TY vs LY) after three games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 Agree with all the above. New scheme and the players aren't getting it yet. Pettine has shown his defenses work. We have the talent to be at least a decent defense. If the d ever starts to play decent we may have a shot at the playoffs. But they better get their asses in gear soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 I think at the heart of the D's issues is the same thing as last year... our LB corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvoethe Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Talking about the Browns... ABOUT THE BROWNS Suppose someone told you the following ... after three games, the Browns offense would: 1. Average 24.7 points per game, 11th best in the NFL. 2. Have ZERO turnovers. 3. Rank No. 9 in rushing, and doing it with veteran Ben Tate having only six carries because of injuries. 4. Brian Hoyer would rank No. 9 in quarterback rating. 5. Browns receivers would have three touchdown catches, and only two drops. 6. Andrew Hawkins would have 21 receptions, Miles Austin would have 14. The two veterans have stayed healthy and been productive. 7. The only discussion about Johnny Manziel after the season opened would be about a trick play where he caught a pass -- only it was negated by a penalty. All of this is great news for Browns fans. It's also a tribute to offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan. Remember all the discussion about his play calls being "too long?" You don't hear that any more once Hoyer settled in as the starter. Shanahan has two rookie running backs -- Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West -- pounding defenses. He is sticking with the run. A year ago, the Browns led the NFL in pass attempts -- still an unbelievable stat. This year, they are 20th in pass attempts. Shanahan doesn't panic and call plays throwing the ball all over the field when his team falls behind. Furthermore, they are doing all this without Josh Gordon. They knew he'd be suspended. They did believe Jordan Cameron would have a big year, but he's battled shoulder problems. He's played only 74 snaps in the first three games and has only three catches this season. All of these factors add up to an impressive performance for Shanahan and his offense. ABOUT THE BROWNS DEFENSE I'm not going to spend a lot of time on stats showing that the Browns defense has been awful. If you follow the orange helmets, you know that. Overall, they are ranked 29th ... and it's 24th in points allowed. So what's the problem? This is the unit with four recent first-round picks: Justin Gilbert (2014), Barkevious Mingo (2013), Phil Taylor (2011) and Joe Haden (2010). It's where they have recently spent big money for free agents: Donte Whitner (2014), Karlos Dansby (2014), Desmond Bryant (2013) and Phil Kruger (2013). Finally, head coach Mike Pettine made his reputation as a defensive coordinator. There is no excuse for all the breakdowns. When you see a team that has been flagged three times for having 12 men on the field, something is wrong with the organization. Twice, it happened when defending the red zone. The Browns also have burned at least two timeouts this season because they failed to have the right number of players on the field for defense. A candid Pettine took the blame for the 23-21 loss to Baltimore, adding that the list of coaching issues "was long." Along with being a rookie head coach, Pettine also is serving as defensive coordinator. Jim O'Neil has that title and has been calling some of the schemes, but Pettine has taken ownership of the defense. I wonder if that is wise, given what we've seen in the first three games. One of the basic laws of management is when you are promoted to a new job, don't also try to do your old job. Is that what has happened to the Browns? I don't know. But Pettine brought up the question of coaching -- and the confusion of having the right players on the field points in that direction. The bye week is a good time to streamline and simplify how the defense is set up and coached. And it's up to Pettine to make that happen. ABOUT THE BROWNS SPECIAL TEAMS 1. Yes, they are a mess right now. A long snapper in a slump can be a major problem. This is not to add to any more of Christian Yount's problems, but long snappers who suddenly struggle often have a hard time snapping out of it. 2. Consider Ryan Pontbriand. The Browns drafted him in the fifth round in 2003. The Rice product did a wonderful job for a long time, even making the Pro Bowl in 2007 and 2008. Then came 2011. Suddenly, his snaps were all over the place. After eight years of being steady, he lost it. Eventually, he was cut during that season. Yount came to rescue -- and has been very solid. 3. Or at least, Yount was solid until this season. The Browns are looking at long snappers during the bye week and they should. 4. After Pontbriand was cut by the Browns. He tried out with the 49ers in 2012. San Francisco's special team's coach is Brad Seely, considered perhaps the best in the NFL. He worked for Eric Mangini in Cleveland and Bill Belichick in New England. He usually had outstanding special teams. Seely also had Pontbriand snapping well with the Browns in 2009 and 2010. But he couldn't fix Pontbriand, who was cut in 2012. He has not snapped in the NFL since. 5. Several places rank special teams. The ranking that many NFL executives like is done by Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News. In the last five years, Seely's special teams have ranked: 1st (Browns), 3rd (Browns), 1st (49ers), 15th (49ers), 2nd (49ers). 6. When a team hires Seely, it tends to make a special commitment to special teams. He may receive a few roster spots for veterans. Consider Seely's one poor (by his standards) season. That was in 2012, when kicker David Akers had a slump. He was cut, and the 49ers signed Phil Dawson. 7. Last season, Dawson was 32-of-36 on field goals, including 4-of-6 from at least 50 yards. Yes, the Browns do miss him. Since 2011, Dawson is 18-of-21 on field goals of at least 50 yards. 8. The previous front office didn't value Dawson, partly because he isn't powerful on kickoffs. They signed Billy Cundiff to replace Dawson, and Cundiff has a very strong leg. He had a team record 42 touchbacks on kickoffs. 9. Cundiff was 21-of-26 on field goals last season. He was 2-of-4 from 50 yards ... but for his career, he is 7-of-25. A strong leg doesn't always translate into long field goals. 10. Cundiff is 4-of-6 this season. He has had one blocked, and a 50-yarder bang off the goal post. Some low snaps haven't helped, just as a high snap on an extra point in the New Orleans game led to botched play. 11. Dawson is 2-of-4 this season, and he's had one blocked. So it can happen to any kicker. 12. But right now, the Browns must fix their snapper situation. This looks like a season of close games, and the two messed up field goals were a big part of the 23-21 loss to the Ravens. 13. How has Coach Chris Tabor ranked in special teams with the Browns? In his first three years: 26th, 15th and 25th. I do think Tabor has not had nearly the talent on special teams that Seely did, and this may be something that the front office needs to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 2. Have ZERO turnovers. Love that stat... Only team to have no turnovers... And have 4 takeaways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 I wish they would have taken a WR instead of Manzeire... Who? The only one taken between our picking JM at #20 and Bito at #35 was Kelvin Benjamin. While he's turned out to be better than I thought he'd be in JAX, I'm not sure he's a WCO fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Agree with all the above. New scheme and the players aren't getting it yet. Pettine has shown his defenses work. We have the talent to be at least a decent defense. If the d ever starts to play decent we may have a shot at the playoffs. But they better get their asses in gear soon. Hopefully they did a lot of work in the bye week to "get with the program" of Pettine's defense. I think it is just a matter of this defense gelling....which I think they will begin to do soon. Going up against Charlie Whitehurst instead of the likes of Flacco, Brees, BR (2-3 potential HOF QBs?) should help. Or even Jake Locker, who would not be confused with those other 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 I think the defense needs to be pared down,and have less information swimming in the minds of our defenders. let them pin theyre ears back and go with a basic team defense for now..., woryy about the cerebral stuff later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 I think the defense needs to be pared down,and have less information swimming in the minds of our defenders. let them pin theyre ears back and go with a basic team defense for now..., woryy about the cerebral stuff later. Usually a comment made more often about Offenses, but may be applicable here. Good alternative would be to call a more aggressive game so our D attacks rather than reads and reacts... ... but then this is default mode anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Who? The only one taken between our picking JM at #20 and Bito at #35 was Kelvin Benjamin. While he's turned out to be better than I thought he'd be in JAX, I'm not sure he's a WCO fit. He's not in Jax and we don't have a WCO. Other than that ... Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 The run defense is not an issue with our OLB'ers, they've been setting the edge. It's the ILB'ers that are, for some reason, not sniffing the ball and meeting the runner at his cuts. They're always lunging at the runners back and legs. If any of you paid attention to the Ravens in their prime, you remember how Ray Ray used to meet the runners in the hole on every play? Maybe our D lineman aren't keeping blockers off our ILB'ers this year, I dunno why cause Hortons scheme last year had them penetrating more than this one I thought. It would be an interesting question for an x's and o's guy to take us through some all 22 looks. Somebody somewhere ain't makin it, we need to find out who it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Can somebody please get Travis Benjamin off punt and kick-off duties. This kid is scared. If he remains the returner he will cost us more than he'll help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Can somebody please get Travis Benjamin off punt and kick-off duties. This kid is scared. If he remains the returner he will cost us more than he'll help us. Ive been screaming that since the Pittspuke game......crap, we have Gilbert AND Gabriel just sitting there....pull the scarecrow and put in a player! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 He's not in Jax and we don't have a WCO. Other than that ... Zombo My Bad... Carolina... Better? As far as the offense goes, if it's not WCO what is it? Based on Daddy Shanny's time under Siefert in SF, he was considered a WCO OC and carried that thru his career. Sure looked like Sonny Shanny had taken after Daddy in WSH, and still looks like it here to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 My Bad... Carolina... Better? As far as the offense goes, if it's not WCO what is it? Based on Daddy Shanny's time under Siefert in SF, he was considered a WCO OC and carried that thru his career. Sure looked like Sonny Shanny had taken after Daddy in WSH, and still looks like it here to me. The Shanahan roots are in the WCO, but they have modified throughout the years enough that they have created their own monster. Shanny jr. created more of a downfield game for Schaub in Hou and then a an option game for RG3 in Washington. He's a an "adapt and adjust" guy when it comes to the passing game and always a zone blocking running game. There does seem to be a lot WCO in what he is doing wth Hoyer now, but when Johnny is in there it'll be different, and when Gordona comes back it will also be different. I understand he has one of the biggest, and most complex, playbooks in the league, and can adjust an offense scheme within a game. But yes, the roots are WCO so I don't mean to be a rag. When I think of WCO I think of that dullard, ancient shit Shurmur and Childress tried here under Holmgren. that was a strict WCO, and we looked like dinosaurs. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted October 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Another Stat: In QB Brian Hoyer’s six career starts with the Browns, the team is averaging 25.5 points per game. The Browns average 17.6 points per game in all other games since 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Another Stat: In QB Brian Hoyer’s six career starts with the Browns, the team is averaging 25.5 points per game. The Browns average 17.6 points per game in all other games since 2013. Nice stat......add the fact that BH has done much of that w/o Gordon....yet, the other "Browns" had him..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 When I think of WCO I think of that dullard, ancient shit Shurmur and Childress tried here under Holmgren. that was a strict WCO, and we looked like dinosaurs. ... and I think "zone blocking, short passes and lots of PAPs"... But nothing stays static. Don't remember seeing Montana in a Pistol... Let's call it the "North Coast Offense". Nice stat......add the fact that BH has done much of that w/o Gordon... It is fun to contemplate adding Gordon to the mix. Meanwhile Austin has done what we signed him to do. It's how he is doing it that escapes me. Speed is not evident. Agility is good, but not great ala Hawk. Best I can come up with is "precise route running". Yes? or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 ... and I think "zone blocking, short passes and lots of PAPs"... But nothing stays static. Don't remember seeing Montana in a Pistol... Let's call it the "North Coast Offense". It is fun to contemplate adding Gordon to the mix. Meanwhile Austin has done what we signed him to do. It's how he is doing it that escapes me. Speed is not evident. Agility is good, but not great ala Hawk. Best I can come up with is "precise route running". Yes? or am I missing something? Yeah, we're not using speed, but our Receivers are getting open. Just keep moving the Chains is the mantra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeonman Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Yeah, we're not using speed, but our Receivers are getting open. Just keep moving the Chains is the mantra. Yep. 5 play scoring drive or 15 play scoring drive... I'll take either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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