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you've got to be showing *major* promise/upside in year 2 in the nfl.....

Tacosman

By Tacosman
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Tacosman Newbie

Tacosman

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and Im just not seeing it. We're going in the wrong direction if anything.

 

Year 2 of the pettine(who the **** is mike pettine says 90% of the nfl) regime isn't showing any progress or signs of hope. Our ancient career journeyman qb has been surprisingly not too far below average this year(which is a plus because he's been decidedly below average most of his decade plus long career), but it's not like there is any future there even if he were to get to being average. Our backup qb is very young and *may* have some upside, but our no name hc is already into self preservation mode and will do anything to win an extra game now(because7-9 is so much better than 6-10) to maybe preserve his job for another year.....even if there is no good end game in doing so(what is mccown actually going to start next year too?)

 

 

the team also doesnt look well coached....im not an xs and os guy, but it seems like our players are rarely in position. Pettine didnt take over a disastrous situation...we didnt have a great roster, but it wasnt godawful. the nfl is not college football- you dont go into long 4 and 5 year rebuilding plans....you get some people in there and start winning. Thats why new teams make the playoffs every year. Pettine just hasnt done anything to show me he deserves a third year unless there are some major changes the 2nd, 3rd and 4th qtr of the year, which is unlikely considering the first quartern of the year was our 'easy' part of the schedule.

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Opal312 Newbie

Opal312

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I sat Melvin Gordon and played Woodhead on my fantasy team. Because I knew! Last week I played Carr and Murray. It's so obvious it is sickening. No excuses anymore.mthey had no wide receivers and three offensive linemen out. My God?

But I disagree why they don't play Manziel. Pettine would not be worried about his job playing Manziel because technically he's still a rookie until he's played a full year. No, Pettine dislikes Manziel. It's personal not professional.

If Weeden loses tonight I still predict a trade to Dallas.

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Clevfan4life Newbie

Clevfan4life

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Well we can't fire pettine so that's that. We just have to give him "YEARS" to build "HIS" team. We simply can't change coaches every 2 years and say here's your guys see what you can do with them. This is what i feel is happening with this team, they are a mismatch for what he does. He built that defense in Buffalo so i'm completely willing to let him build that here, Rex is getting too cute with that D which is why they're underperforming a bit. When those guys line up base 4 man down they do just fine. It's when they all stand up and wander around asking each other for directions to the stadium and get all gimmicky that they get in trouble.

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Opal312 Newbie

Opal312

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I don't want Pettine fired either. If he's fired we start all over again. You're right he built a good defense and Rex Ryan will reap the rewards. But can we at least get an offensive coordinator? And coaches that have eye for detail? How many penalties were there? My Gosh this is the NFL and they keep shooting themselves in the foot. It's so embarrassing and disappointing to be a Browns fan.

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Frenchie Newbie

Frenchie

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I had high hopes for Pettine & Farmer. But now, I'm not so sure. Unless things turn around, I find it difficult to accept the text-gate and poor draft choices from Farmer and the failure to make progress from Pettine. I can give Pettine the opportunity to fix things by firing his defensive coordinator (perhaps more) but Farmer needs replacement at the end of the season - or we need a President to oversee things and decide what's right for the organization.

 

Farmer - you can't blow 3/4 of your first round draft choices, not sign any playmakers (except Hawkins), sign players like Bowe and keep your job. The Bowe move really pisses me off. Farmer would rather sign an aging veteran off a terrible year to an expensive contract than use a high draft choice to get WR talent.

 

Anyway, he comes to work on Monday - let's see what he's made off. He needs to cut Bowe. Do something !!

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Mike H Newbie

Mike H

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One of the most talented, but under performing defenses I have seen. Someone is to blame. If O'Neil isn't fired, I'd ask for Pettine's resignation

 

If he's the loyal type, he can head to unemployment line with good guy Jim.

 

"Words into action"

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Soju Newbie

Soju

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and Im just not seeing it. We're going in the wrong direction if anything.

 

Year 2 of the pettine(who the **** is mike pettine says 90% of the nfl) regime isn't showing any progress or signs of hope. Our ancient career journeyman qb has been surprisingly not too far below average this year(which is a plus because he's been decidedly below average most of his decade plus long career), but it's not like there is any future there even if he were to get to being average. Our backup qb is very young and *may* have some upside, but our no name hc is already into self preservation mode and will do anything to win an extra game now(because7-9 is so much better than 6-10) to maybe preserve his job for another year.....even if there is no good end game in doing so(what is mccown actually going to start next year too?)

 

 

the team also doesnt look well coached....im not an xs and os guy, but it seems like our players are rarely in position. Pettine didnt take over a disastrous situation...we didnt have a great roster, but it wasnt godawful. the nfl is not college football- you dont go into long 4 and 5 year rebuilding plans....you get some people in there and start winning. Thats why new teams make the playoffs every year. Pettine just hasnt done anything to show me he deserves a third year unless there are some major changes the 2nd, 3rd and 4th qtr of the year, which is unlikely considering the first quartern of the year was our 'easy' part of the schedule.

 

This is a great analysis. And you hit the nail on the head about Pettine not wanting to develop JFF because it may cost him some wins when the season ends that could mean his job.
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OldBrownsFan Newbie

OldBrownsFan

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Pettine did inherit a disastrous situation when he took on the Browns HC job. Can you think of any other club in the NFL more disastrous since 99? I can't.

 

Even though I haven't been happy with the performance in the last 2 losses in both those losses we were in those games until the final seconds. Unfortunately we are finding ways to lose these games instead of winning them.

 

McCown has come here and done what he is supposed to do. I thought he played well against the Chargers. It is our defense that has been the huge disappointment. It was our defense that lost the game to the Chargers. Our defense that could not take advantage of all the injuries on the Chargers offensive line. Our defense that kept giving up the big plays.

 

Pettine said he would be more involved on the offense this year but he needs to get more involved with our defense. He chewed out the defense last week against the Raiders saying they looked like the scout team and this week they were even worse.

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Clevfan4life Newbie

Clevfan4life

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Can't fire Pettine for years, will keep saying it as long as people don't get it. Ownership shot itself in the dick when it kept firing staff after 1-2 years. Pettine would have to resign for "personal reasons" and be paid well i'm assuming to never break story that he was in essence asked to resign.

 

And this team is shit for talent, i'm sorry to break that to some of you. They don't do some of the basics that people learned in HS. Watch our pass rushers, the moves they make, than go compare them to pass rushers on a some of the top defense's. That will clarify to you what some of the thigns Pettine has to deal with. Than go look at top tier or even middle of the road ILB"ers if you want to be further frustrated. See how routinely they meet runners in the hole or even in the backfield. Teo and Perryman are nowhere near the top of the shelf as ILB"ers, Teo has serious fundamental tackling problems, yet both of them were way more around the ball and kept the ball carriers infront of them more. We still made decent yards on the ground yesterday, because those LB'ers are avg at best. But they still outperformed us.

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Why?!?!? Apprentice

Why?!?!?

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Even though I haven't been happy with the performance in the last 2 losses in both those losses we were in those games until the final seconds. Unfortunately we are finding ways to lose these games instead of winning them.

 

Im tired of this garbage excuse . . .

 

This isn't peewee football, there's no trophy for participation. Well coached teams find ways to win. Let's just get real . . . this season was a prayer before it ever started, but now it's over. No defense, no running game, same old garbage at the QB position. Our only hope is Benjamin returns three punts in some game.

 

So here is where we should really start to judge Pettine . . . How are we going to learn from our mistakes? What are you going to do differently from here on out.

 

He needs to completely take over the defense, because O'neil is in over his head. Maybe do something different on defense, we've done the same thing over and over with not very much success . . . Do you know the definition of insanity? While I despise belicheat, one thing he does is adapt. So Mike think outside your box.

 

He also needs to see what he has in Johnny in order to prepare for next year . . . and a four game stretch when the team is playing not to get hurt at the end of this disaster is not a good sample. He only needs to look at the Browns recent history to realize that pinning the hopes of a franchise on an aging backup journeyman is not the answer and never will be. I give McCown credit he played better than I expected, and if he was 26 and not 36 then it would be a different story. This is a business and it's not always fair . . . Johnny better or worse needs to be starting over you Josh, because in the long run it's better for the franchise. Bummer you didn't play this well during the rest of your time in the league. If Johnny can't handle being put on a bad situation he's not gonna be able to handle being a QB in this league. Most rookie QB's don't get plugged into a great situation . . . They rise to the occasion and lead their team to victories.

 

He's got to put some foot in asses over all these penalties . . . It's unacceptable. What is this "I appreciate the effort" bullshit? Stay behind the fucking line til the ball is snapped dude who is getting paid millions of dollars to be a professional football player. Pettine seems to favor the veterans to a fault, and needs to start holding them accountable.

 

If it remains business as usual I won't expect anything out of this team for several years, but if Pettine can get out of his own way, make some changes and take command of the situation then I will be a little more optimistic.

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OldBrownsFan Newbie

OldBrownsFan

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It's a catch 22. If you fire anybody, you are simply going to fill his position with another no-name coach. Stability is probably the ONLY thing that is going to change the fact that proven players and coaches simply aren't coming to Cleveland.

 

Even if this collection of coaches and players may not be what you want, history has proven that constant change will maintain the problem that prevents the Browns from improving. If the Browns FO demonstrates that they are willing to build a system, and keep the coaches they have, it will help in the long run; the problem is that Browns fans and media are not interested in the long term. So......in reality, the fans and media are getting what they want......a steady stream of attempts to fix it all this year. It's like playing the lottery as a financial plan.

 

This is one of the times I appreciate an outsiders point of view and it is the correct one.

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Mudfly Newbie

Mudfly

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People have been screaming for continuity for years.....absolutely begging for it......

 

Yet, exactly 1 year and 3 games in, they want to start over again.....

 

I always hated the asshole who flips the board when someone else gets all the properties.....

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TexasAg1969 Veteran

TexasAg1969

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Pettine did inherit a disastrous situation when he took on the Browns HC job. Can you think of any other club in the NFL more disastrous since 99? I can't.

 

Even though I haven't been happy with the performance in the last 2 losses in both those losses we were in those games until the final seconds. Unfortunately we are finding ways to lose these games instead of winning them.

 

McCown has come here and done what he is supposed to do. I thought he played well against the Chargers. It is our defense that has been the huge disappointment. It was our defense that lost the game to the Chargers. Our defense that could not take advantage of all the injuries on the Chargers offensive line. Our defense that kept giving up the big plays.

 

Pettine said he would be more involved on the offense this year but he needs to get more involved with our defense. He chewed out the defense last week against the Raiders saying they looked like the scout team and this week they were even worse.

 

Amen-this is not on Josh or the O-it's on the 3rd rate D.

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calfoxwc Grand Master

calfoxwc

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I see the Browns playing intensely to WIN.

 

But I wonder if the systems are so complicated, that they

take more time to implement successfully than they planned.

 

Players like gilbert, and bowe, and a few others, who don't really

give a damn to work and learn, and just want their paycheck.

 

It will take more time to fix that next year in the draft and FA.

 

Rivers kept having wr's or TE's get open quickly, often.

 

Mccown - more like, kept having receivers not get open quickly,

except for Travis - who I think they kept double covering...

and Hartline - who got hurt.

 

Right now, Bowe is a disaster, anyone on this board, well, except for "why(*", and soju, and

doofus schnozzle (although schnozzle did have a good post his last post.... B) ), a few other trolls, could have

run that play with a hell of a lot more enthusiam than Bowe did. His body language was really bad for the Browns.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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There are easier ways to collect a check than returning kick-offs. I'm not willing to lump Gilbert in with Bowe... yet.

 

I'm not convinced our massive problems on defense boils down to talent. There's definitely some coaching problems.

Misapplying the talent we have? Again, I have to ask: where are the examples of "the system" being adapted to our players?

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Clevfan4life Newbie

Clevfan4life

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Does anyone really think a different scheme would make that big of a difference? I know I've said in the past few weeks that we look to be built more for a 4-3, and maybe we'd see some slight improvement but I doubt it for one major reason...our LB'ers. We might see some slightly better play out of our front 4 if they were rotated properly and kept fresh. But with the exception of Robertson, who's that stud MLB that's gonna fly up into the gap and crush the RB? That guy just isn't on the team. I'd like to see Tank start to get more reps at ILB'er, just to see where he's at. He's been here a long time now, was it Mangini's last year or Shurms first? In any case I heard Pet talking him up so put him out there. We need someone to step up and form tackle runners in the hole, not slough after them once they've broke through the seam. I think our DL makes more pursuit tackles in the run game at this point than our LB'ing corp. I'm sick of this.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Tank supposedly is a helluva blitzer and an ST'er should certainly have a fill mentality, but IIRC he can't cover.

 

I just don't see multifunctional LBs on our roster... especially on the outside.

 

Situationally guessing for an entire game is not my idea of adapting to the talent you have.

 

Our first defensive series was electric. But if it was over the moment SD went spread, then be it coaching and/or talent something is seriously wrong. Good Defenses dictate to the Offense.

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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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I sat Melvin Gordon and played Woodhead on my fantasy team. Because I knew! Last week I played Carr and Murray. It's so obvious it is sickening. No excuses anymore.mthey had no wide receivers and three offensive linemen out. My God?

But I disagree why they don't play Manziel. Pettine would not be worried about his job playing Manziel because technically he's still a rookie until he's played a full year. No, Pettine dislikes Manziel. It's personal not professional.

If Weeden loses tonight I still predict a trade to Dallas.

 

Hope you cleaned up on Draft Kings or Fan Duel :)

. .

 

One of the most talented, but under performing defenses I have seen. Someone is to blame. If O'Neil isn't fired, I'd ask for Pettine's resignation

 

If he's the loyal type, he can head to unemployment line with good guy Jim.

 

"Words into action"

 

Undisciplined- nice getting two penalties on one play. Some of the Chargers passes were total blown assignments- no one in the same area code as the pass recipient. I'm still in disbelief- improving the pass rush was a priority in the off season- & after the first series, we were unable to effectively pressure Rivers who was playing behind a makeshift o-line. And we blitzed and stunted plenty. One of Rivers TD passes resulted from a jailhouse blitz, we still couldn't get there in time.

 

Tank supposedly is a helluva blitzer and an ST'er should certainly have a fill mentality, but IIRC he can't cover.

 

I just don't see multifunctional LBs on our roster... especially on the outside.

 

Situationally guessing for an entire game is not my idea of adapting to the talent you have.

 

Our first defensive series was electric. But if it was over the moment SD went spread, then be it coaching and/or talent something is seriously wrong. Good Defenses dictate to the Offense.

 

Couldn't adapt to what the Chargers were doing. Linebacker is an ongoing problem. Since we've been bashing the Browns drafting in other threads- just how much would having guys (that we passed on) like Clay Matthews or JJ Watt have helped the cause yesterday?

 

"He only needs to look at the Browns recent history to realize that pinning the hopes of a franchise on an aging backup journeyman is not the answer and never will be. I give McCown credit he played better than I expected, and if he was 26 and not 36 then it would be a different story. This is a business and it's not always fair ."

 

I think Why nailed it- .I don't doubt Pettine is going to gush about McCown's play in his presser today. He's not seeing the forest for the trees. I've seen enough of Josh already to tag him with the Vinnie Testaverde quote- "he's just good enough to get you beat." Coupled with a defense that has regressed from last year- it's a recipe for a long and disappointing season.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Other than IMO Pet is not pinning the "hopes of the franchise" on McC... sure.

 

The one thing Pet is getting credit for is getting effort out of his team. Those not willing or not capable of putting out the effort are minimized, e.g., Bowe, Gilbert. Put another way, he is putting his best team on the field.

 

Right now that team includes McC, our bridge QB... and everyone knows that is what Josh is.

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Mark O Newbie

Mark O

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I think Why nailed it- .I don't doubt Pettine is going to gush about McCown's play in his presser today. He's not seeing the forest for the trees. I've seen enough of Josh already to tag him with the Vinnie Testaverde quote- "he's just good enough to get you beat." Coupled with a defense that has regressed from last year- it's a recipe for a long and disappointing season.

 

McCown did nothing to get us beat yesterday. 27 points put on the board by the offense that he led. Scoring 27 points goes 9-3-1 in the NFL yesterday. It should've been good enough. He's not the future of the franchise but he gives the Browns the best chance to win.

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TexasAg1969 Veteran

TexasAg1969

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Other than IMO Pet is not pinning the "hopes of the franchise" on McC... sure.

 

The one thing Pet is getting credit for is getting effort out of his team. Those not willing or not capable of putting out the effort are minimized, e.g., Bowe, Gilbert. Put another way, he is putting his best team on the field.

 

Right now that team includes McC, our bridge QB... and everyone knows that is what Josh is.

 

Hmmm. That statement would leave me to conclude you don't think Manziel put out his best effort his last outing. Otherwise he would be out there with the rest giving their all instead of being minimized.

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Clevfan4life Newbie

Clevfan4life

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Tank supposedly is a helluva blitzer and an ST'er should certainly have a fill mentality, but IIRC he can't cover.

 

I just don't see multifunctional LBs on our roster... especially on the outside.

 

Situationally guessing for an entire game is not my idea of adapting to the talent you have.

 

Our first defensive series was electric. But if it was over the moment SD went spread, then be it coaching and/or talent something is seriously wrong. Good Defenses dictate to the Offense.

 

If he can smash RB's coming north south, than I give a fuck what his cover skills are.

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