nickers Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I still don't understand the reasoning for Phil Taylor not being here. While he was not the greatest NT.,, He wasn't the worst. And I still think he could've helped the Browns.. Another dumb move by Farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I still don't understand the reasoning for Phil Taylor not being here. While he was not the greatest NT.,, He wasn't the worst. And I still think he could've helped the Browns.. Another dumb move by Farmer. Probably because he would have been out half of the year at minimum? But that's just a solid hunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I still don't understand the reasoning for Phil Taylor not being here. Id ask his knee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 IF the fans start watching you can see the coaches have definitely changed Kruger's role Do tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Yeah I see them doing different things with Kruger but when he puts his hands down and rushes the edge he's still garbage. In fact his pass rushing skills look to have unimaginably regressed this year. I mean he's right awful. He has ZERO moves now. Armonty Bryant is levels above Kruger in terms of his pass rushing skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Khalil Mack put on a pass rushing clinic, we're lucky he only had two sacks yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsKidd Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Khalil Mack put on a pass rushing clinic, we're lucky he only had two sacks yesterday. Just remember, Oakland had no sacks prior to playing us. That's telling on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Just remember, Oakland had no sacks prior to playing us. That's telling on both sides. I bet Mack was close if you look at their first 2 games. I'll bet he was disruptive. He didn't just think those moves up Sat night. Plus he was rated the #1 defensive rookie last year, already one of the best run stoppers in the game his freshman year. That's sick. I can see polished pass rushers doing alright their rookie year, but run stopping is a whole nother game. We really really really missed out on a special player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I think one guy it's time to examine out there on the field is Whitner. Love the dude and was way solid for several years, but he's starting to lose it now. Misses tackle like crazy, gets beat in coverage a lot, and just doesn't look quick out there. I think he's the best option as of this second but he's also becoming a glaring weakness. This was the year Whitner was supposed to play within "the system"... not sure if that's a good or a bad thing at this point. Hated his knocking the Brown off Reese. The one who was actually trying to tackle Reese. It was all in the name of trying to be "Hitner". A lot of big hitters wrapped as they hit so they'd ride the player to the ground... deliver one hit... get one free. But he made good plays as well. Had Cooper blanketed on one play (shocked me). After the D held OAK in the 2nd Qtr... Whitner came off the field, helmet off, screaming at the Offense. Then we roughed the Punter. I think that hurt the D as a whole, but it crushed Whitner. He was beaten badly in the resumed series. Defense looks good in flashes, very inconsistent. More often bad than good, though. Late yes, but for the bulk of the 1st half they held OAK to 3 points. Then gave up the TD on the resumed drive after the roughing. The last drive of the half, following our having to settle for the FG, was total deflation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Brief thought from the rare couple of minutes I've gotten to watch the replay. The amount of 2 gapping were asking of Shelton, and then players not entirely familiar with this system (Starks in particular) might be a tad of an issue in certain spots. He's holding his own in many instances, however a couple of the bigger runs from the 3 hole aren't because of a lack of effort or ability. He's consistently drawing double teams and its incredible with the lack of QB pressure/disruptions we've seen at other positions given Danny fulfilling his role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Fat ass Danny Shelton at No. 12 overall really helped the run defense. I'm not sure because I wasn't here, but I bet the majority of you pined for his selection. Guaranteed Good player, not a Top 12 pick, and the team still ranks 32nd in run defense. I realize it "takes more than one guy" but plenty of teams employ fat ass JAGS at 0 and 1 techs and are just fine. Danny is not Haloti Ngata or Vince Wilfork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 But he made good plays as well. Had Cooper blanketed on one play (shocked me). After the D held OAK in the 2nd Qtr... Whitner came off the field, helmet off, screaming at the Offense. Then we roughed the Punter. I think that hurt the D as a whole, but it crushed Whitner. He was beaten badly in the resumed series. I won't go too much into it here, but this honestly goes with my opinion that the defense feeds off the offense/ST much more than the other way around. It's subjective so it's not a right or wrong thing, but I think defenses get so deflated when they do their job only to see the offense fail to do theirs Fat ass Danny Shelton at No. 12 overall really helped the run defense. I'm not sure because I wasn't here, but I bet the majority of you pined for his selection. Guaranteed Good player, not a Top 12 pick, and the team still ranks 32nd in run defense. I realize it "takes more than one guy" but plenty of teams employ fat ass JAGS at 0 and 1 techs and are just fine. Danny is not Haloti Ngata or Vince Wilfork. Shelton is playing okay, but getting better. The problem with the run defense is the same problem as last year. I'd say 95% of big runs so far have been on the edge because there's no one on the roster even close to having the ability to set it. I'd venture just ball parking it through three games 80% of runs to the edge have resulted in 5+ yard carries for the opposing offenses. That's something Shelton can't address at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 But he made good plays as well. Had Cooper blanketed on one play (shocked me). After the D held OAK in the 2nd Qtr... Whitner came off the field, helmet off, screaming at the Offense. Then we roughed the Punter. I think that hurt the D as a whole, but it crushed Whitner. He was beaten badly in the resumed series. I won't go too much into it here, but this honestly goes with my opinion that the defense feeds off the offense/ST much more than the other way around. It's subjective so it's not a right or wrong thing, but I think defenses get so deflated when they do their job only to see the offense fail to do theirs Fat ass Danny Shelton at No. 12 overall really helped the run defense. I'm not sure because I wasn't here, but I bet the majority of you pined for his selection. Guaranteed Good player, not a Top 12 pick, and the team still ranks 32nd in run defense. I realize it "takes more than one guy" but plenty of teams employ fat ass JAGS at 0 and 1 techs and are just fine. Danny is not Haloti Ngata or Vince Wilfork. Shelton is playing okay, but getting better. The problem with the run defense is the same problem as last year. I'd say 95% of big runs so far have been on the edge because there's no one on the roster even close to having the ability to set it. I'd venture just ball parking it through three games 80% of runs to the edge have resulted in 5+ yard carries for the opposing offenses. That's something Shelton can't address at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Shelton is playing okay, but getting better. The problem with the run defense is the same problem as last year. I'd say 95% of big runs so far have been on the edge because there's no one on the roster even close to having the ability to set it. I'd venture just ball parking it through three games 80% of runs to the edge have resulted in 5+ yard carries for the opposing offenses. That's something Shelton can't address at all. Depends on what you consider "The edge." I think using the phrase "the edge" is a (no offense) cop out that many use to try to understand what is happening. I'd consider most runs outside the tackles as the "edge," but some runs are going through the guards on misdirection or cutbacks (from what I have seen). I'll have to look into what exactly the edge is people keep talking about, and then pay closer attention to it this week during my film review. It depends even further on how many of the big plays allowed (20+ yard runs) in the NFL come between the guards, or off the "edge." I'd bet a lot of money that most defenses that allow big chunk run plays have them develop on the "edge." Good scheme + allegedly good players (and I think they are "good enough" to not be the worst looking rush defense in modern history)... It doesn't add up other than game planning. Which brings us to Jimmy O'Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmp Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 The Defense, Offense, Coaching staff, Front Office Owner the ugly uni's and the first 20 rows of the DogPound!! It all has to go!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Depends on what you consider "The edge." I think using the phrase "the edge" is a (no offense) cop out that many use to try to understand what is happening. I'd consider most runs outside the tackles as the "edge," but some runs are going through the guards on misdirection or cutbacks (from what I have seen). I'll have to look into what exactly the edge is people keep talking about, and then pay closer attention to it this week during my film review. It depends even further on how many of the big plays allowed (20+ yard runs) in the NFL come between the guards, or off the "edge." I'd bet a lot of money that most defenses that allow big chunk run plays have them develop on the "edge." Good scheme + allegedly good players (and I think they are "good enough" to not be the worst looking rush defense in modern history)... It doesn't add up other than game planning. Which brings us to Jimmy O'Neil. I'm talking about runs off tackle, not so much cut backs and other situations like that. It seems like every run off tackle goes for 5+ with rare exceptions. I'd say more traditional "up the middle runs" have improved and while I admittedly don't look at DL closely as I can tell Shelton is drawing tons of double teams. I just think as I said we have absolutely zero players on the roster who fit the OLB/DE who can stop this from happening. Hell I'd say 5-7 times it's been schemed right and guys just aren't quick enough or just miss a tackle. That's the glaring problem in our defense, Mingo shouldn't even be on the field and Kruger really fits more as a situational player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Looking at the rushing charts from the first 3 games, they were running over the right guard(with ease) and end for the most yards & attempts.... Mostly at Kruger, Bryant and Kirksey...... Oakland also went the other way....left.....and averaged 6-7 yards carry(Cooper really struggled).....while still pounding the ball over RG for a 12 yd average(mostly Hughes and Kirksey)... So, while they definitely are exploiting the outside and breaking the edge, the truth is that they are seemingly running where ever they want.....(except the middle/left...no big gains there.....could that be due to Shelton & Starks???)...(yes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Looking at the rushing charts from the first 3 games, they were running over the right guard(with ease) and end for the most yards & attempts.... Mostly at Kruger, Bryant and Kirksey...... Oakland also went the other way....left.....and averaged 6-7 yards carry(Cooper really struggled).....while still pounding the ball over RG for a 12 yd average(mostly Hughes and Kirksey)... So, while they definitely are exploiting the outside and breaking the edge, the truth is that they are seemingly running where ever they want.....(except the middle/left...no big gains there.....could that be due to Shelton & Starks???)...(yes) Correlation does not always = causation. These stats are fine, but are not 100% correct because there's no context. A lot happens on a football play that can't be captured by "he ran left". Saying opponents can't run up the middle against a 3-4 defense is pretty useless... they are designed to force teams to run around their nose tackle. Danny has not been as disruptive as many thought he would be, although there were plenty of people saying to be cautious because he athleticism didn't show a Ngata type player. But, continue using out of context stats to support Danny Shelton's massive impact on the Browns' rush defense. He's really helping... Actually, they got worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Dead on the money right about the LB'ers meeting RB's at the line. I think I've seen it like less than 5 times over the last 2 years and half of that was from Robertson. I saw it five times in the first half... of course it was LBs in white doing it. When is the last time you saw a safety blitz from the Browns ? When's the last time you saw some well planned stunts. Coaching Coaching Coaching and Play calling. The coaches haven't got it together. Look at the call in the second quarter to go for it on 4 down instead of taking the 3 points when your only down 2 scores, your going to get the ball in the 2nd half kickoff and your offense was week all first half. Yea coach go for it !!! Duh ! Thank goodness there was a penalty and we got 3. Not to mention the mental positive of scoring before the half than coming up empty. When your quarterback is misfiring on all cylinders in the first quarter and shows no signs of improvement pull him and give #2 a try. You do it in every other position why not QB. Last Safety Blitz? Week 2 vs. TN. Issue vs. Carr was he was getting the ball out quickly. Blitz would not have changed that. The 4th and Goal play call was there, but the guy with the ball forgot the snap count. The third and Goal play call was there, but the guy with the ball chose the wrong hole. The Second and goal play call was there-ish... QB is unlike any other position when it comes to subs. I still don't understand the reasoning for Phil Taylor not being here. While he was not the greatest NT.,, He wasn't the worst. And I still think he could've helped the Browns.. Another dumb move by Farmer. It's not like Phil has been snapped up by anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 It's not like Phil has been snapped up by anyone. Yeah, I forgot he was hurt..but all the same I guess they didn't want his salary sitting on IR. I understand they had Shelton and that's fine... It just wouldve been nice to have a healthy Taylor to go along with Shelton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Fat ass Danny Shelton at No. 12 overall really helped the run defense. I'm not sure because I wasn't here, but I bet the majority of you pined for his selection. Guaranteed I was one... Depends on what you consider "The edge." I think using the phrase "the edge" is a (no offense) cop out that many use to try to understand what is happening. I'd consider most runs outside the tackles as the "edge," but some runs are going through the guards on misdirection or cutbacks (from what I have seen). I'll have to look into what exactly the edge is people keep talking about, and then pay closer attention to it this week during my film review. It depends even further on how many of the big plays allowed (20+ yard runs) in the NFL come between the guards, or off the "edge." I'd bet a lot of money that most defenses that allow big chunk run plays have them develop on the "edge." And depending on how you define "big chunk" I might take most of that bet. Quick hitters between the tackles (definitely not "edge" runs) often pop for chunks. The only edge runs in dispute would be ZBS cutbacks that end up being outside the trailing OT, but essential where the Center originally lined up. In any case I know I for one will eagerly await the details uncovered in your film review... I've never seen any before. Correlation does not always = causation. These stats are fine, but are not 100% correct because there's no context. But, continue using out of context stats to support Danny Shelton's massive impact on the Browns' rush defense. He's really helping... Actually, they got worse. So in evaluating a single player's impact, detailed, out of context stats are trumped by the most macro stat of all? Interesting logic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 But, continue using out of context stats to support Danny Shelton's massive impact on the Browns' rush defense. He's really helping... Actually, they got worse. Out of context?.....isnt the discussion about "where" they are running....and I simply gave the stats.... Make of them what you will, cause you seem to know everything..... Did I say Shelton had massive impact?.....I think I said no large gains over the middle.....and questioned if it was due to Shelton/Starks?....perhaps you know the reason, cause last season they were tearing off huge chunks right up the middle and off left guard.....all ears as to why this has changed......get over yourself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 There's zero official indication so far that Shelton can't be Ngata or Wilfork. Why say that about a guy three games into his career who's had two solid games consecutively now? You want him to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns23 Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Speaking of our run defense, wasn't Kirksey being talked up by the coaches all offseason? I've hardly noticed him making any spectacular plays out there unless I'm missing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I find it somewhat ironic that a few weeks back i said on here that J could never be "The One" if he did not get help from the OL, receivers, running game and a defense capable of stopping the other team. I was ridiculed unmercifully for making up excuses for him. And now what do I read? OL sucks, defense can't stop the Michelin man and the coaches need to go. All after losing a game by one interception at the end. All we need to add to this is the red queen chanting, "Off with their heads." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I find it somewhat ironic that a few weeks back i said on here that J could never be "The One" if he did not get help from the OL, receivers, running game and a defense capable of stopping the other team. I was ridiculed unmercifully for making up excuses for him. That's because we'd already designated those to be josh excuses... No copying allowed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Jabaal Sheard getting rave reviews in New England www.waitingfornextyear.com The article talks about how he was cheaper than Dwayne Bowe. And how Derek Carr was untouched Sunday. The defense is who we we think they are Farmer can't keep letting players go because of money Sheard, Rubin, Skrine would have been better kept than let go. Farmer is no General Manager. The product on the field is proof. Two players Mack and Carr should have been Browns Instead, we have a deficit of -2 in the first round that year. Clearly the Browns are not a better team because of this year's draft. Three games is all I need to say We Suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Yes, he is, you are not. The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Sheard has had only two tackles in each of three games. One assist also, in each of the first two games. I liked Skrine - most everybody did. He was short, and wanted big money. I like Desir better - he is eventual starter cb material. Desir is 6'2". Buster was barely? 5'9". Meanwhile, Gilbert was going to finally start vs the Raiders.... but after two games with a hip flexor strain... he ended up with a strained hammy on Thurs before the game. Yes, the Browns would love to have Mack. And in retrospect, Carr would never have had the failure of a first year like JM did. Did you know that would happen? Nobody did. It was their first draft. They didn't have the first round they would like to have had in 2014. Everybody knows that NOW. Bitching about for freaking ever, and ever, and ever, is bs. they got THIS years first round excellently, I think, for the needs they had. Next year, I suppose a blue chip wr is in order, and qb, not necessarily in that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Where'd that Gilbert info come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Shelton didn't do shit and was beaten constantly. He can shove his lava lava and his Serpentini commercials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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