Our 2016 Draft Class Game: Find the "Bust"

[Tour2ma]

So much bitching about past drafts. How about focusing on the one for which this FO is responsible?

Name the bust... make your case...

-Yr- Rnd ---- Player ---- Pk - Pos
2016 1 Corey Coleman 15 WR
2016 2 Emmanuel Ogbah 32 DE
2016 3 Carl Nassib 65 DE
2016 3 Shon Coleman 76 T
2016 3 Cody Kessler 93 QB
2016 4 Joe Schobert 99 OLB
2016 4 Ricardo Louis 114 WR
2016 4 Derrick Kindred 129
2016 4 Seth Devalve 138 TE
2016 5 Jordan Payton 154 WR
2016 5 Spencer Drango 168 G
2016 5 Rashard Higgins 172 WR
2016 5 Trey Caldwell 173 DB
2016 7 Scooby Wright 250 ILB

[calfoxwc]

a bust six weeks after being drafted.

 

you should know better.

 

Wait, YOU DO dammit.

[gftChris]

So much bitching about past drafts. How about focusing on the one for which this FO is responsible?

 

Name the bust... make your case...

 

-Yr- Rnd ---- Player ---- Pk - Pos

2016 1 Corey Coleman 15 WR <- it's here, in the hand

2016 2 Emmanuel Ogbah 32 DE

2016 3 Carl Nassib 65 DE <- it's in his future, down the road in canton

2016 3 Shon Coleman 76 T

2016 3 Cody Kessler 93 QB

2016 4 Joe Schobert 99 OLB

2016 4 Ricardo Louis 114 WR

2016 4 Derrick Kindred 129

2016 4 Seth Devalve 138 TE

2016 5 Jordan Payton 154 WR

2016 5 Spencer Drango 168 G

2016 5 Rashard Higgins 172 WR

2016 5 Trey Caldwell 173 DB

2016 7 Scooby Wright 250 ILB

[Zombo]

DeVulva can't stay healthy, but they all have a shot to be meaningful players still.

 

Zombo

[Opal312]

Too early! I like the two Colemans, Ogbah and Nassib. The next draft we must get a franchise player and Oline help and secondary help.

[Tour2ma]

So no one has one?

 

Fourteen rooks and the best anyone can do approaching the halfway point of their first season is point to an injury or two?

 

Seems to me in recent years it hasn't been this hard to find at least one, if not two or three... even this early.

[D Bone]

I'm going with Shon Coleman. To me, a 'bust' has to be a high draft pick, and the 3rd round is right at the Mendoza Line in regards to being a high draft pick. Shon has shown us, or at least me, nothing to this point and in a desperate area of need, he should of been able to land a starting spot by now.

[Mudfly]

Too early.....but Ill throw Shon Coleman out for the biggest disappointment....non performer...on the list

 

And with Coleman and Gordon not playing, I was definitely hoping for more from our other 3 WR picks.....

 

So, dont see an obvious bust(cept Shon), but dont see any obvious super stars or difference makers either.....tho maybe the other Coleman can pull it out when he gets healthy....

 

Otherwise, fairly hum drum average stuff to this point.....

 

Hard to grade so many who havent played.....lots of incompletes....

[Mudfly]

and for a guy who was handed the starting job, Schobert is basically a no show......not a high pick, but "obviously" someone the team had high hopes for, hence him getting the job over Orchard(Mingo, Kruger, et all).....

[TexasAg1969]

I'll bite. I'll go with Roberto "Hands of Stone" Duran, a.k.a. Ricardo Louis. Has shown a bad case of dropsy thus far.

[Canton Mike]

I'll bite. I'll go with Roberto "Hands of Stone" Duran, a.k.a. Ricardo Louis. Has shown a bad case of dropsy thus far.

 

Yeah, he would be my choice too & for the same reason. Quincy Morgan II? He had the dropsies at Auburn too Bill. Drafting him where we did was a big surprise to me.

 

Mike

[syd]

fuck it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,All of em suck,,,,

[gumby73]

So much bitching about past drafts. How about focusing on the one for which this FO is responsible?

 

Name the bust... make your case...

 

-Yr- Rnd ---- Player ---- Pk - Pos

2016 1 Corey Coleman 15 WR

2016 2 Emmanuel Ogbah 32 DE

2016 3 Carl Nassib 65 DE

2016 3 Shon Coleman 76 T I mocked him to us, to high for a redshirt

2016 3 Cody Kessler 93 QB

2016 4 Joe Schobert 99 OLB Not the same guy i remember at Badgers

2016 4 Ricardo Louis 114 WR Greg Little... anyone

2016 4 Derrick Kindred 129

2016 4 Seth Devalve 138 TE Did not know him as draftable, & same today

2016 5 Jordan Payton 154 WR Did this guy take the short bus to UCLA to get degree?? Gordo never knew a playbook either

2016 5 Spencer Drango 168 G

2016 5 Rashard Higgins 172 WR

2016 5 Trey Caldwell 173 DB Did we not cut this Guy?

2016 7 Scooby Wright 250 ILB To Short, To short,,To damn short..NCAA should have paid for his injuries

Warriors...Come out to P L A Y

[BaconHound]

I'm not as high on Nassib as some others are. Can't deny high energy, crazy motor but doesn't seem strong enough. He reminds me of a white Mingo.

 

Corey Coleman hasn't played enough to weigh in but think he was a reach at 15

[Frenchie]

I agree with the "too soon" comments but I see some productive players so it might not be a total bust. Coleman needs to show us something with all these O-Line injuries. The remaining top three rounds are contributing (and there are injuries). Durango could become a solid lineman as well.

 

I just don't agree with the rebuild through the draft process. Butch Davis rebuilt the Browns and sent us to the playoffs through free agents and the draft. We had plenty of money to keep players we lost (WR, T), Keep veterans (S, ILB), and sign some much needed talent (pass rush, DB, etc.)

 

I hope they take a more serious approach next year.

[TexasAg1969]

I agree with the "too soon" comments but I see some productive players so it might not be a total bust. Coleman needs to show us something with all these O-Line injuries. The remaining top three rounds are contributing (and there are injuries). Durango could become a solid lineman as well.

 

I just don't agree with the rebuild through the draft process. Butch Davis rebuilt the Browns and sent us to the playoffs through free agents and the draft. We had plenty of money to keep players we lost (WR, T), Keep veterans (S, ILB), and sign some much needed talent (pass rush, DB, etc.)

 

I hope they take a more serious approach next year.

 

Elway used the draft and free agency to build the Broncos into a winner. Our wonder boys in the FO need to read the book on how it works. Just trading in high draft choices for a lot of middle ones each year is just not enough.

[Tour2ma]

Ag,

Which of Elways 2011 signings were key to his rebuild? You know the year he started his massive rebuild all the way from a 4-12 team sandwiched between two 8-8 seasons? Which are still with the team?

[miktoxic]

can't call any of them busts yet.....

 

my question is: given that list, what players would be selected from a GM of another team and be told "yes, you're a starter on our squad."

 

kessler as a backup? nassib as well? and they don't count if they can't play.

[gftChris]

can't call any of them busts yet.....

 

my question is: given that list, what players would be selected from a GM of another team and be told "yes, you're a starter on our squad."

 

kessler as a backup? nassib as well? and they don't count if they can't play.

 

It's unfair to blame a broken hand on the front office. It's not the kind of recurring soft tissue injuries that can be scouted.

 

Corey Coleman looks like a legit playmaker that would be starting on other teams and will be a big player for us in the second half of the season and beyond.

 

Ogbah needs to work on technique, but, as noted elsewhere, is now leading us in sacks. Starter on other teams? Some, probably.

 

Nassib would probably rotating on other teams - as he would be on ours if it weren't for the season ending injury to Desmond Bryant.

 

Shon Coleman got a knee injury in pre-season that set him back and is now just starting to get a look at right tackle. Good.

 

Cody Kessler would be backup or third string on other teams, as he would be on ours if it weren't for the injuries to RG3 and Josh McCown.

 

Joe Schobert wouldn't be starting on other teams and shouldn't be starting on ours. But who would be instead? Schobert is no worse than Kruger (half a sack this year for the saints...) though and is only going to improve.

 

From here on out there are no starters in our draft class - fourth round picks and lower, who would have guessed.

 

 

Once again, the overriding theme - this team, already lacking in all around talent, has been decimated by injuries, to key rookies expected to be starters, and to starters forcing unready rookies in to playing. So no, obviously Ricardo Louis is not likely a starter elsewhere, but you know what? He's not supposed to be a starter here, either. He's at best the fourth WR in the group, after Pryor, Coleman and Hawkins, and for a rookie, that's a decent place to begin, whether it's him, Higgins or Payton.

[TexasAg1969]

Ag,

Which of Elways 2011 signings were key to his rebuild? You know the year he started his massive rebuild all the way from a 4-12 team sandwiched between two 8-8 seasons? Which are still with the team?

 

Other than Von I don't think 2011 (Elway's first year) was the key year to the change other than that was when he began the draft/fa process in earnest. He has used it since that time yearly quite extensively. Starting SB players just on the D besides Von (Draft) were Ware (Dallas), Talib (NE), Ward (OUCH), Wolfe (Draft), Jackson (Draft), Travathan (Draft), Harris Jr. (UFA), Marshall (Jax), Williams (Draft), Stewart (Ravens). So 5 drafted and 5 FA and one UFA on a crushing defense. It took 5 years to become a SB winning D. Of course you can't underestimate the signing of FA Manning in 2012 to jump start the O to go with that D, but D has always been their real key to providing the ball regularly to the O. I've said from day one that this is the key also to a Browns playoff team yearly. But then I am a biased D guy. I think all the great teams start there.

 

EDIT: And of course last night made Elway look like a genius for letting the $70 Mil man go to Houston while maintaining that crushing D. And what do they have that really makes it go? 2 really great pass rushers disrupting everything along with cover corners.

 

PS-this is what I want the Browns D to look like within 5 years. Just do what Elway has done and get a really good D coordinator to run it. Hell, steal Elway's!

[The Gipper]

So much bitching about past drafts. How about focusing on the one for which this FO is responsible?

 

Name the bust... make your case...

 

-Yr- Rnd ---- Player ---- Pk - Pos

2016 1 Corey Coleman 15 WR

2016 2 Emmanuel Ogbah 32 DE

2016 3 Carl Nassib 65 DE

2016 3 Shon Coleman 76 T

2016 3 Cody Kessler 93 QB

2016 4 Joe Schobert 99 OLB

2016 4 Ricardo Louis 114 WR

2016 4 Derrick Kindred 129

2016 4 Seth Devalve 138 TE

2016 5 Jordan Payton 154 WR

2016 5 Spencer Drango 168 G

2016 5 Rashard Higgins 172 WR

2016 5 Trey Caldwell 173 DB

2016 7 Scooby Wright 250 ILB

Have any of these guys actually been cut by the Browns? I think Scooby was, but then he was picked back up for the PS.

(and lets face it.....you CANNOT call a 7th round draft pick that gets cut a bust...even if we didn't get him back.

 

I will also say....it looked to me that Shon Coleman was playing a lot of Ole offensive line. Guys went around him like he was a statue on a couple of occasions.

[gftChris]

We cut Trey Caldwell, and re-signed him to the PS, same as Scoobs.

[Tour2ma]

 

Other than Von I don't think 2011 (Elway's first year) was the key year to the change other than that was when he began the draft/fa process in earnest. He has used it since that time yearly quite extensively. Starting SB players just on the D besides Von (Draft) were Ware (Dallas), Talib (NE), Ward (OUCH), Wolfe (Draft), Jackson (Draft), Travathan (Draft), Harris Jr. (UFA), Marshall (Jax), Williams (Draft), Stewart (Ravens). So 5 drafted and 5 FA and one UFA on a crushing defense. It took 5 years to become a SB winning D. Of course you can't underestimate the signing of FA Manning in 2012 to jump start the O to go with that D, but D has always been their real key to providing the ball regularly to the O. I've said from day one that this is the key also to a Browns playoff team yearly. But then I am a biased D guy. I think all the great teams start there.

 

EDIT: And of course last night made Elway look like a genius for letting the $70 Mil man go to Houston while maintaining that crushing D. And what do they have that really makes it go? 2 really great pass rushers disrupting everything along with cover corners.

 

PS-this is what I want the Browns D to look like within 5 years. Just do what Elway has done and get a really good D coordinator to run it. Hell, steal Elway's!

 

And that was one of my points... Elway did nothing significant in his first year in FA... and sonofabitch neither did we. Additionally I'll argue that the depths at which the two franchises started their rebuilds are not similar. So if we are still relatively inactive in the 2017 FA market I will not be surprised.

 

Starting FAs on the SB D: Ware (Dallas 2014), Talib (NE 2014), Ward (OUCH 2014), Harris Jr. (UDFA 2011), Marshall (Jax 2013), Stewart (Ravens 2015).

 

Years and the type of FA are important. The 2014 triplets were all UFAs attracted to a team on the verge of a ring... ditto Stewart. Harris was a UDFA "find". Marshall was cut by JAX and spent nearly all of 2013 on the Broncos' PS... so I'll guess Elway had no clue he'd end up as good as he did.

 

You're creating a myth in your rearview mirror.

[Tour2ma]

We cut Trey Caldwell, and re-signed him to the PS, same as Scoobs.

 

Yup... It's the route to the PS.

[miktoxic]

 

It's unfair to blame a broken hand on the front office. It's not the kind of recurring soft tissue injuries that can be scouted.

 

when did i do that?

 

if they can't play they can't be evaluated. when they can't play because of an injury you can't just say well we have a great ________ he's just injured.

 

everybody was screaming sammy watkins years ago so................

[hoorta]

 

And that was one of my points... Elway did nothing significant in his first year in FA... and sonofabitch neither did we. Additionally I'll argue that the depths at which the two franchises started their rebuilds are not similar. So if we are still relatively inactive in the 2017 FA market I will not be surprised.

 

Starting FAs on the SB D: Ware (Dallas 2014), Talib (NE 2014), Ward (OUCH 2014), Harris Jr. (UDFA 2011), Marshall (Jax 2013), Stewart (Ravens 2015).

 

Years and the type of FA are important. The 2014 triplets were all UFAs attracted to a team on the verge of a ring... ditto Stewart. Harris was a UDFA "find". Marshall was cut by JAX and spent nearly all of 2013 on the Broncos' PS... so I'll guess Elway had no clue he'd end up as good as he did.

 

The point I want to make about your post Tour is- the guys who are shouting, well, we have a ton of cap room- just go out and sign top FAs. Talents like Ware and Talib aren't coming to warm up around the Browns dumpster fire regardless of what we might offer them. They're going to go to teams that at least have playoff, if not SB aspirations. Plus, we've already seen our FO is currently averse to ageing vets with fat contracts. Maybe that will change if we ever get in playoff contention.

[Tour2ma]

The point I want to make about your post Tour is- the guys who are shouting, well, we have a ton of cap room- just go out and sign top FAs. Talents like Ware and Talib aren't coming to warm up around the Browns dumpster fire regardless of what we might offer them. They're going to go to teams that at least have playoff, if not SB aspirations. Plus, we've already seen our FO is currently averse to ageing vets with fat contracts. Maybe that will change if we ever get in playoff contention.

 

Yup... I can only recall a vet FA saying, "I'm tired of winning. I want to get in on the ground floor of a rebuilding franchise," in a couple instances. And they were when the player was following a coach, e.g., Willie McGinest following Romeo to CLE.

 

And that's fine... FAs are a great source of final pieces to complete the puzzle. Building blocks at the start of a long term project? Not so much...

[TexasAg1969]

 

And that was one of my points... Elway did nothing significant in his first year in FA... and sonofabitch neither did we. Additionally I'll argue that the depths at which the two franchises started their rebuilds are not similar. So if we are still relatively inactive in the 2017 FA market I will not be surprised.

 

Starting FAs on the SB D: Ware (Dallas 2014), Talib (NE 2014), Ward (OUCH 2014), Harris Jr. (UDFA 2011), Marshall (Jax 2013), Stewart (Ravens 2015).

 

Years and the type of FA are important. The 2014 triplets were all UFAs attracted to a team on the verge of a ring... ditto Stewart. Harris was a UDFA "find". Marshall was cut by JAX and spent nearly all of 2013 on the Broncos' PS... so I'll guess Elway had no clue he'd end up as good as he did.

 

You're creating a myth in your rearview mirror.

 

If the Browns commit hard to D in the draft and not trade everything down again, then maybe some of those quality free agents will want to become a part of it. And no I don't think we are starting on the same level as Denver. Never said this would be easy. But it's better than doing the same things over and over again with the same shitty results. And you are implying that Elway was just a lucky stupid fuck. We disagree. He was using draft and fa to make that team a contender. We could learn something from that.

[Tour2ma]

I did not realize Elway personally scouted every one of his FA signings...

 

Of course finding a UDFA CB that becomes a quality starter is "luck".

 

I'll give him credit for hiring Kubiak and charming Phillips and Manning into joining the effort, but I'm not inclined to canonize him for his every move.

 

 

As for committing to D... matters not. Hitting on picks, no matter the side of the ball, is what matters. Do that and the FAs will follow.

 

 

Which brings me back to my main reason for starting this thread...

[Adoug319]

No one drafted 3rd round and on can really be a bust in my opinion.. even second round is iffy.

 

But any player you draft in the first round that isn't an elite player for your team.. is a bust.

 

In our draft, the bust is definitely Corey Coleman. He will show flashes, but won't stay healthy and will be a solid #2 receiver, but never a consistent #1. When you draft a receiver first round, he better be your #1 receiver for the next 10 years, or he's a bust.