Mudfly Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Alright.....Im down right upset and confused about whats happening with our players and how we are making roster decisions. Last season we draft some good looking talent and only brought 5 guys in....why?.....because we traded our picks to(supposedly) MAXIMIZE the talent we were selecting....so, we got Gilbert, Manziel and West......along with Kirksey, Bito and Desir....and this is where Ill start.... Throughout camp, we heard ALL were doing well....zero talk about bad attitudes, poor work ethic, etc. All these guys....supposedly...were doing well, right? But, once the season started, things began to change quickly...... Gilbert....(yes, my guy)...he played the '14 preseason and did "ok", as would be expected from any rookie. In fact, with the exception of Bito, they all did "ok". Gilbert was in fact good enough to play 60 snaps in the first game, then started game #2. But....then......he was hit with a PI penalty and that was it. He was pulled from the game and sat the rest of the way. So, after playing 120 snaps in games 1 & 2, he got only 20 snaps the next 2 weeks(due to 1 penalty) and Coach said "growing pains". THEN, he got back in the game and registered 3 very solid games and looked like he was about to take the job from Skrine. THEN, they benched him again. Why?.....we dont know. They said personal problems and I dont know what this means. I do know they were pretty supportive of JF's very public personal issues, but apparently, not so much with Gilbert. But, no matter what folks say, when he DID play, he played well. Yet, basically was relegated to the bench for reasons unknown....So we got Skrine, who led the league in penalties and had a terrible rating, while Justin gets 1 penalty and then sits for weeks,,,,,,This year, its as if he doesnt exist and he HAS played strong on ST and the few games snaps he's gotten. .....I dont get it.....at all West....we traded up....lots of folks thought it was a great pick....he busted 700 yards his rookie season. I do know he was a bit immature(like Johnny, Justin and the rest of our kids). He posted some goofy stuff on IG, mugged for the cameras and died his hair funny. Which, I guess, is reason enough for Coach not to like him(sarcasm, btw). BUT, he started and played every single game and was good enough to cut our high dollar FA, Ben Tate. So, what do we do this year. We dump him. And we do it without a replacement. Why?....I dont get it..... Manziel....Ill be brief, cause we've discussed him to death. We all know why he hasnt played. And we all suspect he is on the same "Pettine Shit List" as the others are. But, again, when you have NO talent, how long do you wait to see what your top picks can do???....it just ridiculous..... Bito, Kirksey & Desir....Lets be honest. Bito played great from day one. BUT, Desir and Kirksey are just like the other guys and have had plenty of growing pains....YET, they keep getting reps. Even if they screw up. WHY?....Cause the Coach likes them. Thats why. There's no other explanation. Is it personality? Practice speed? Something we dont know? I dont think so. I dont see how the top 3 guys can ALL have such deep issues they dont get to play. AND if they do, then why are they even here???? Fast Fwd to NOW.....cause here is what I see...... Running back....Crow has struggled beyond words and just looks bad and Glenn Winston is a guy the Browns have been touting for 2 years. So, the Browns go and get this injured Turbin guy, wait for him to heal, then put him in IMMEDIATELY. Lots of touches and, without the advent of much practice, basically gets starter type game reps. Looks ok for a guy who hasnt played in a while. Then he fumbles. And its over. Dude is cut and Glenn Winston comes into the picture. BUT, does he play? NO. How is it that a guy like Turbin earns the right to play immediately, but a guy like Winston doesnt? And if Turbin was so good, why cut him after 1 bad game. Or, if he isnt that good, how does he get immediate reps, while guys like Winston, West, Gilbert and Manziel dont?......contradictory stuff right there..... Bowe....how is this guy not playing either? In the last 2 weeks, Hartline and Gabriel have dropped everything(7 passes/2 weeks)...plus Benji just dropped a TD...Yet, Bowe doesnt get to play. EVEN THOUGH he has a 10 year history of success in this league. Now, if it was Gilbert, West, Manziel or Turbin who dropped all those passes, we might never see them again....but since it was Pettines boys, they get passes on their TERRIBLE play, while others sit for much less.....contradictory stuff right there..... Gaines.....a FIFTH round pick who has been out the entire season with an injury. You'd think he'd get worked back into the lineup slowly, no? YET, first week he's available, he plays the whole game(while Gilbert still sits and waits for his turn). And, you know what?.....Gaines did a few good things, but had some TERRIBLE plays as well....gave up long passes....had long PI penalties.....basically got burned. Yet...he stayed in and, in just one week, now has as many reps as Gilbert has had all season. When asked, Pettine said "we wanted to get him some time and see what he can do"....Umm, HELLLOOOOO.....How about the same for Gilbert buddy?....contradictory bullshit right there..... Erving....Ima give this guy a pass so far. Look, he's a Tackle who's played some center. So we draft him high and put him at guard. But, instead of allowing him to learn the position as a rookie, we also work him at RT....C....RG.....and LT......SO, we basically work him at 4 positions on the line, which HAS to hurt his development, cause how many rookies can learn 4 positions???...But here is the kicker....we play him at TE....and then his first start is at LG....2 positions he's never played or practiced. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with these guys. I felt bad for Erving and think Pettine deserved every one of Cams fuck ups yesterday. Poor kid. Hope they dont ruin his confidence. I know this is long...sorry,,,,but wanted to see it all together....so if your still with me....GREAT! When Pettine started, I liked his tough guy stance with the kids. Felt some discipline was good and letting them earn it was also good. BUT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. It is completely ridiculous at this point. When the team is losing every game, playing and STARTING guys like Solomon, Bademosi, Turbin, Meder, while sitting talent like JF, Gilbert, Winston, Mingo & Bowe...it makes no sense....other than to establish that Coach CLEARLY plays favorites.....and the favorites are NOT determined by quality of play..... You cant say "We want to see what Gaines or Turbin have and playing them is the only way".......when you aren't doing the same with all the other guys......its a bullshit contradiction.... I hate to say this.....Ive back Pettine ALL THE WAY....100%......and I HATE the idea of another coach....but he has to go....NOW,,,,if the FO wants their picks to ever learn the game..... We will NEVER win anything with all our talent inactive or on the bench. And if our coach only plays guys "he likes", then we will never win anything.......ever...... One last bitch....we were suppose to see "graduate level" D this year......really?....hahahahaha And Kruger sucks.....completely.....try sitting him a few games Pet...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 FWIW, gaines was a 6th round pick...you're welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDDawg Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 In a nutshell, the coaching sucks and I agree. One legged Roethlisberger tears us apart with bombs and we can't get a single blitz to him when they also have a backup center. The team is deteriorating as the season progresses while other bad teams in the NFL are trending upwards :Tampa Bay, Detroit (same record but no way we're beating Green Bay), Chicago, Washington to name a few. This is the recipe for a coach firing which will most likely happen this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 FWIW, gaines was a 6th round pick...you're welcome HA!....that explains it......thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Good post Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Thanks, Mud for writing out exactly how I feel about the situation.I hear so many people say "we don't have the talent" which yeah, I hear as true in a broad sense. With everything you note though, it's really apparent to me that Pettine is formally in over his head. I personally think his ego got inflated with the early good start last season and he refuses to believe that was just a fluke. Every coach has their system, I get that but Pettine's is officially a dumpster fire. I don't expect a formal statement admitting that, but SHOW that you want to adapt. Play different guys and bench the bums. This is the NFL for crying out loud not high school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I think I kind of had that view in the back of my mind, that Pett makes his mind up on people early and doesn't sway from that, but to see it clear like that makes it obvious. Why is Bademosi playing over Gilbert? I've not seen Bademosi break up a pass, get a pick, or even make an open field tackle. Is Gilbert really worse than that? Bademosi has hit his ceiling, and it's very low. Gilbert could be much better. Why is Bowe not playing? We have such a lack of playmakers at the WR position, is he really much worse than Gabriel? We had to play Marlon Moore towards the end of the game because of injuries. Everyone knows the Manziel story - Pett doesn't like him and seems reluctant to play him at all. When McCown was injured vs AZ, he was left in there, but JFF has a contact lens issue and Davis is rushed on to the field to cover for a snap? I really, really, hope this view is wrong, because I like Pettine as a man, and he's clearly at least a solid DC. He could be the guy to turn it around, if only he gets *his* guys in place. That means he needs to get much more involved in the scouting and drafting process, which may not be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 And Kruger sucks.....completely.....try sitting him a few games Pet...... Yes. Frankly, the LB'er and/or D line coaches are morons They have not helped him develop whatsoever since he got here. He's still doing the same repetitive move off the line 3 years later. I'm at a complete loss. Nothing he does skill wise is matched to his physical capabilities. He's a big strong kid that "should" have been taught how to power through the edge instead of letting him constantly try to speed rush. I'm not even going to talk about dropping him into coverage as that defies everything I thought I knew about football. I don't have words for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 and its even more troubling, because IF or WHEN a Gilbert, Mingo or Bowe finally get to play....they will be SO hesitant and afraid to make a mistake, that they will fail....and THAT will be on the Coaches and the way they've handled these guys..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I hope the inability of our pass rush to even slightly perturb a gimped Roethlisberger helped everyone realize our scheme and player need revamped next year. And that we need to draft a pass rusher. No more small fgt speed rushers either. We need someone that can take the shortest line possible to the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I won't lie, I have someone specific in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I won't lie, I have someone specific in mind. Ha!....bet it's a 4 letter word..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Ha!....bet it's a 4 letter word..... M-i-n-g-...oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Seriously though, if Bosa's there, it'd be extremely difficult to not take him. Pick up a WR in the second round, and I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Seriously though, if Bosa's there, it'd be extremely difficult to not take him. Pick up a WR in the second round, and I'm happy. At this point....Im all about BPA.....we need difference makers, not void fillers..... But Coach needs to spend some time with them to make sure he "likes" them..... I think MIKEY needs a bowl of life cereal..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 At this point....Im all about BPA.....we need difference makers, not void fillers..... I can get on board with that. I'm just having a case of the Ghoolies - seeing us fail to punch it in to the end zone time and time again makes me want a stud receiver, or maybe (if somehow we end up around #10) an Ezekiel Elliott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 We absolutely need more height at WR, Barnidge is our only red zone threat because of the smurfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 We absolutely need more height at WR, Barnidge is our only red zone threat because of the smurfs. I've been wondering about how often we run 12 or 13 personnel, to try to get more big threats around there. Maybe Tour can look in to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 There is absolutely no way Gilbert is worse than Bademosi or Gaines. I really don't get it. Our defense is probably worse than most people realize. Can't stop the run, and can't rush the passer. I mean, how can we have a defensive coach that can't coach a competent defense? And it's not like we're "close", or we're losing because of a few mistakes here and there. We're getting our asses kicked. NFL games are generally close. How many games were decided by ten points or less this weekend and EVERY weekend? And then there is the offense. Have you guys ever seen an offense so devoid of playmakers? If you're the opposition, who are you scared of? And the running game...can we discuss that? Can anyone remember having so many running plays net negative yardage? Remember last year when we punched it in? Now, we have to try and create some scheme play to get a touchdown, and let's just say that isn't working out. Can anyone remember a worse red zone attack? Ultimately, here's the thing: If Pettine gets fired, who takes over?! We have basically zero head coaching experience on our current staff, so if you fire Pettine, who takes over? Suppose we make it to the end of the season and then we fire Pettine, and probably everyone else. Who do we bring in? We're an absolute disaster. Obviously the job is still an NFL head coaching position, and there will be people interested, but if it comes down to the Browns job or another opening...are we really going to get the best available candidate? We're frustrated, and rightfully so. I just want a team I can be proud of, and we're so far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I would add that Robert Turbin and Shaun Draughn have the highest rushing average on the team this year..... So....cut em..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 how can we have a defensive coach that can't coach a competent defense? During Pettine's entire coaching career, he's had his mistakes explained away by good players and/or better coaches. The great stats are because he's had great players - lewis, reed, etc. Now, he's exposed as the sham that he's always been. He lacks both self-awareness and flexibility. Cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 yeah I want a big stud WR too but our defense is so bad we have to do something there. And it starts on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I really, really, hope this view is wrong, because I like Pettine as a man, and he's clearly at least a solid DC. He could be the guy to turn it around, if only he gets *his* guys in place. That means he needs to get much more involved in the scouting and drafting process, which may not be a good thing. I hope it's wrong as well because I like him as well and I've defended him all season but I have to admit its getting harder and harder to do it. I think we will learn a lot when we see who starts the Baltimore game. I thought it was the right choice to go back to McCown after the Titans game but at this point at 2-8 and the fact that Manziel played well enough yesterday, there's no reason not to give him another start. I might be joining the get rid of the coach camp if he goes back to McCown at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 The defense is a dumpster fire from the coaches to the players. It will have to addressed in the draft and O'Neil needs to be gone ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Ultimately, here's the thing: If Pettine gets fired, who takes over?! We have basically zero head coaching experience on our current staff, so if you fire Pettine, who takes over? Suppose we make it to the end of the season and then we fire Pettine, and probably everyone else. Who do we bring in? We're an absolute disaster. Obviously the job is still an NFL head coaching position, and there will be people interested, but if it comes down to the Browns job or another opening...are we really going to get the best available candidate? Well...I would say there's two basic options if we are looking for a new coach. It's either going to be some coordinator that most of us have never heard of and maybe Farmer keeps his job and you bring in a coach who wants to work with Johnny. The complete opposite end of the spectrum is Jimmy backs up the truck for a Sean Payton or Gruden or Cowher or someone like that but in that case everyone is blown out. A guy like that coming here is going to want full and total control over everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Doug Marrone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 A guy like that coming here is going to want full and total control over everything.Which means bye-bye Farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Which means bye-bye Farmer. That's what I mean...if its a big name guy...its a total reboot of the franchise (again). Bring in a coordinator or even a college coach, I would think Farmer stays (for continuity) and maybe even some of the coordinators stay as well. Just my opinion but I would bet that's how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 blame the HC for lack of talent? ummm........... i'd rather our GM take a chance on someone i've heard of who's played for a power ranked team than him wheeling and dealing to collect 2 more 6th rounders who end up not making the team. just because our record of drafting bums in the first round doesn't mean you stop. cards get reshuffled and once in while you get the hot hand. can't blame pettine for farmer's shortcomings. can't blame pettine when the pick can't even make the practice squad. maybe the people of power need to let their employees do their jobs and fans might need to have more trust considering these people do this for a living and have been doing it for awhile. i mean how many people can say right now, that they are one of only 32 other people in the world that do what they do at their level? backseat drivers and monday morning coaches are great until you go on an 8 hour road trip or come on a fan based forum after another loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 blame the HC for lack of talent? ummm........... i'd rather our GM take a chance on someone i've heard of who's played for a power ranked team than him wheeling and dealing to collect 2 more 6th rounders who end up not making the team. just because our record of drafting bums in the first round doesn't mean you stop. cards get reshuffled and once in while you get the hot hand. can't blame pettine for farmer's shortcomings. can't blame pettine when the pick can't even make the practice squad. maybe the people of power need to let their employees do their jobs. backseat drivers and monday morning coaches are great until you go on an 8 hour road trip or come on a fan based forum after another loss. Agree, I'm more of a believer that Farmer hasn't brought in shit for talent. If I'm Haslam and I'm being forced to get rid of either Pet or Farmer...bye Ray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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