Mark O Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 blame the HC for lack of talent? ummm........... i'd rather our GM take a chance on someone i've heard of who's played for a power ranked team than him wheeling and dealing to collect 2 more 6th rounders who end up not making the team. just because our record of drafting bums in the first round doesn't mean you stop. cards get reshuffled and once in while you get the hot hand. can't blame pettine for farmer's shortcomings. can't blame pettine when the pick can't even make the practice squad. maybe the people of power need to let their employees do their jobs and fans might need to have more trust considering these people do this for a living and have been doing it for awhile. i mean how many people can say right now, that they are one of only 32 other people in the world that do what they do at their level? backseat drivers and monday morning coaches are great until you go on an 8 hour road trip or come on a fan based forum after another loss. I agree with you on this. Peter King said in his column this morning that the Browns should be drafting Paxton Lynch with the first overall pick if we end up there. Now he might be a great prospect and all but we've all seen it's not the quarterback that is losing this team games. We need help on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Doug Marrone? He is the o-line coach for the Jaguars. Their o-line is turrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Mike Pettine is a dumb piece of shit, that's how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 He is the o-line coach for the Jaguars. Their o-line is turrible. I liked what did in Buffalo as HC, I literally have no idea who else we'd possibly get in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I liked what did in Buffalo as HC, I literally have no idea who else we'd possibly get in... He went 9-7 in buffalo, which was a good result, then got run out of town. Ask the bills guy (George?) about how he's viewed there. If you think Pettine is egotistical, he's like the pope compared to Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I liked what did in Buffalo as HC, I literally have no idea who else we'd possibly get in... There would be plenty of options. Just about any coordinator in the NFL would be happy to make the step up to the HC position. As somone else said, there's only 32 of these jobs in the world. Its just a matter of is that person going to be any better than what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Kyle Shanahan getting the job would be about the funniest thing possible. He's going to be a HC candidate very soon. Peyton Manning for QB coach, Joe Thomas for GM/LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Does it really matter what no-name is brought in next? He will get ran out of town in 1-2 years anyway. It's deja vu all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Kyle Shanahan getting the job would be about the funniest thing possible. He's going to be a HC candidate very soon. Peyton Manning for QB coach, Joe Thomas for GM/LT. Peyton Manning is not going to be a QB Coach. Shanahan was a candidate for jobs last offseason if I'm not mistaken and will likely get hired by someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Mike Pettine is a dumb piece of shit, that's how. and he knows more about football in one brain cell than you will ever know. let's see your resume compared to his? love people that call someone out or yell and scream to get someone fired yet if the shoe was on the other foot would be shocked and in dismay that people can be such assholes. so when you started on your career path doing whatever it is you do, did you know everything there is to know about your job in your first year? no learning curve? no OTJ training? you just walked in and were top notch, top level and had nothing to ever learn. and now that you are a manager and have 10 dummies to manage and not all of them are good dummies, people from outside are saying you should be fired because you can't manage your dummies. meanwhile this is your dream job and your family depends on you. you are praying every night that some asshole like you is not calling you a dumb shit and writing to your boss and asking for your job. meanwhile that asshole knows jack shit about what you do or how you do it. just an asshole is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Does it really matter what no-name is brought in next? He will get ran out of town in 1-2 years anyway. It's deja vu all over again. Exactly...which is why I"m in favor of keeping the HC and GM. If it has to be one or the other, I'm replacing the GM. I'd also be fine with a new DC...i'm just not convinced that O'Neil is up to the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 and he knows more about football in one brain cell than you will ever know. let's see your resume compared to his? love people that call someone out or yell and scream to get someone fired yet if the shoe was on the other foot would be shocked and in dismay that people can be such assholes. so when you started on your career path doing whatever it is you do, did you know everything there is to know about your job in your first year? no learning curve? no OTJ training? you just walked in and were top notch, top level and had nothing to ever learn. and now that you are a manager and have 10 dummies to manage and not all of them are good dummies, people from outside are saying you should be fired because you can't manage your dummies. meanwhile this is your dream job and your family depends on you. you are praying every night that some asshole like you is not calling you a dumb shit and writing to your boss and asking for your job. meanwhile that asshole knows jack shit about what you do or how you do it. just an asshole is all. HA! Funny shit... Very true as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns1216 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 hypothetically, let's say Pettine is fired at the end of the season. Who would want to come here? at best, we would get a sidegrade from Pettine but most likely a downgrade. Keep Pettine, promote one of the defensive position coaches to DC to keep some form of continuity. O'Neil is in over his head. For the rest of the season, it would be great if Pettine stops being afraid of hurting his friend's feelings and just starts calling the defensive plays. I don't understand whose decision it is to play Bademosi in front of Gilbert, who is making Kruger drop back in pass coverage, or who is making 300+ pound linemen sprint to and from the sidelines every other play but we didn't do this shit last year when Pettine was more involved in the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 blame the HC for lack of talent? ummm........... i'd rather our GM take a chance on someone i've heard of who's played for a power ranked team can't blame pettine for farmer's shortcomings. can't blame pettine when the pick can't even make the practice squad. I would argue that the GM "DID" bring in top ranked talent, but the coach refuses to even take it for a test drive.....and he clearly is playing players who arent playing well.....so, new job or not, if you are failing and you refuse to try something else, then maybe it IS the HC and not the talent.... Especially when you have very good talent that "all of a sudden" cant compete....ala Joe Haden, Tramon Williams, Dwayne Bowe, our entire O Line, Kruger, Whitner, Gipson, Hartline....and many others.... When THIS MANY skilled veterans suddenly become baffoons and you refuse to make ANY adjustments and stubbornly stay the course.....then can you really blame just the talent level???? and he knows more about football in one brain cell than you will ever know. so when you started on your career path doing whatever it is you do, did you know everything there is to know about your job in your first year? no learning curve? no OTJ training?.......and now that you are a manager and have 10 dummies to manage and not all of them are good dummies,...... And I can say "for me", that Ive defended Farmer and Pettine 100%....all the way.....completely.....and I do understand what it takes. Ive bought several "distressed" businesses and flipped em, which is my thing. So Ive been there and done that for 26 years now....for real! I can tell you that Ive certainly made HUGE mistakes, but I also listen to any skilled/long term employees for ideas....and make adjustment after adjustment till things are right. Forcing a square peg into the ole round hole has NEVER worked anywhere....and even though Im not an NFL coach, I can tell you thats whats happening here..... The one thing you dont have to be a Coach to see....is what I based this thread on.....obvious contradictions. Saying one thing and doing another. And holding very visible double standards within the team. Strong leadership doesnt waver, but it also has balls and can admit mistakes when they happen.... You cant say "were gonna play this guy cause we need to see what he can do".....then NOT play several others because you claim to already know what they can do......and claim to have transparency, then spew a bunch of crap that everyone knows is BS.... Yeah....he's in his second year and he's assembled a staff full of rookies(first mistake, right there). If he's to be successful, he HAS to look around at what successful coaches do and start doing it.....successful people surround themselves with successful people....and I dont see that happening.....I dont see adjustments....I dont even see him admitting there is a problem. He seems to think its just a few missed assignments.....and THAT is the troubling part.....and THAT is why Im playing armchair QB....Not because I think I know more than him about Coaching.... but because I know about leadership and being in charge of a turn around and its the same in business as it is in football.....and he doesnt look up to the task... Maybe for his "first" HC job, he shouldnt have taken the most challenging one in the league....and if he's gonna tackle it, then he needs to do what good leaders do and get some people in here that know what the fuck they are doing. And when they dont do it right, he needs to say that and make them adjust......simple shit really.....even if it IS coming from my armchair(or office)(same diff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I'd like to see Ray Farmer fired ASAP - and start the GM search now. If Haslam then decides on the back half of the season/end of season that Pettine needs to go then you might have a GM in place (maybe) and then go for the coach at the end of the season. The last coaching search made a mockery of the organization. I'd give Pettine more time, with the caveat that the D coordinator has to go. And see Pettine assume both HC and DC for the remaining games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Mud, I might not agree with everything on your last post, but it is well thought out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Alright.....Im down right upset and confused about whats happening with our players and how we are making roster decisions. Last season we draft some good looking talent and only brought 5 guys in....why?.....because we traded our picks to(supposedly) MAXIMIZE the talent we were selecting....so, we got Gilbert, Manziel and West......along with Kirksey, Bito and Desir....and this is where Ill start.... Throughout camp, we heard ALL were doing well....zero talk about bad attitudes, poor work ethic, etc. All these guys....supposedly...were doing well, right? But, once the season started, things began to change quickly...... Gilbert....(yes, my guy)...he played the '14 preseason and did "ok", as would be expected from any rookie. In fact, with the exception of Bito, they all did "ok". Gilbert was in fact good enough to play 60 snaps in the first game, then started game #2. But....then......he was hit with a PI penalty and that was it. He was pulled from the game and sat the rest of the way. So, after playing 120 snaps in games 1 & 2, he got only 20 snaps the next 2 weeks(due to 1 penalty) and Coach said "growing pains". THEN, he got back in the game and registered 3 very solid games and looked like he was about to take the job from Skrine. THEN, they benched him again. Why?.....we dont know. They said personal problems and I dont know what this means. I do know they were pretty supportive of JF's very public personal issues, but apparently, not so much with Gilbert. But, no matter what folks say, when he DID play, he played well. Yet, basically was relegated to the bench for reasons unknown....So we got Skrine, who led the league in penalties and had a terrible rating, while Justin gets 1 penalty and then sits for weeks,,,,,,This year, its as if he doesnt exist and he HAS played strong on ST and the few games snaps he's gotten. .....I dont get it.....at all West....we traded up....lots of folks thought it was a great pick....he busted 700 yards his rookie season. I do know he was a bit immature(like Johnny, Justin and the rest of our kids). He posted some goofy stuff on IG, mugged for the cameras and died his hair funny. Which, I guess, is reason enough for Coach not to like him(sarcasm, btw). BUT, he started and played every single game and was good enough to cut our high dollar FA, Ben Tate. So, what do we do this year. We dump him. And we do it without a replacement. Why?....I dont get it..... Manziel....Ill be brief, cause we've discussed him to death. We all know why he hasnt played. And we all suspect he is on the same "Pettine Shit List" as the others are. But, again, when you have NO talent, how long do you wait to see what your top picks can do???....it just ridiculous..... Bito, Kirksey & Desir....Lets be honest. Bito played great from day one. BUT, Desir and Kirksey are just like the other guys and have had plenty of growing pains....YET, they keep getting reps. Even if they screw up. WHY?....Cause the Coach likes them. Thats why. There's no other explanation. Is it personality? Practice speed? Something we dont know? I dont think so. I dont see how the top 3 guys can ALL have such deep issues they dont get to play. AND if they do, then why are they even here???? Fast Fwd to NOW.....cause here is what I see...... Running back....Crow has struggled beyond words and just looks bad and Glenn Winston is a guy the Browns have been touting for 2 years. So, the Browns go and get this injured Turbin guy, wait for him to heal, then put him in IMMEDIATELY. Lots of touches and, without the advent of much practice, basically gets starter type game reps. Looks ok for a guy who hasnt played in a while. Then he fumbles. And its over. Dude is cut and Glenn Winston comes into the picture. BUT, does he play? NO. How is it that a guy like Turbin earns the right to play immediately, but a guy like Winston doesnt? And if Turbin was so good, why cut him after 1 bad game. Or, if he isnt that good, how does he get immediate reps, while guys like Winston, West, Gilbert and Manziel dont?......contradictory stuff right there..... Bowe....how is this guy not playing either? In the last 2 weeks, Hartline and Gabriel have dropped everything(7 passes/2 weeks)...plus Benji just dropped a TD...Yet, Bowe doesnt get to play. EVEN THOUGH he has a 10 year history of success in this league. Now, if it was Gilbert, West, Manziel or Turbin who dropped all those passes, we might never see them again....but since it was Pettines boys, they get passes on their TERRIBLE play, while others sit for much less.....contradictory stuff right there..... Gaines.....a FIFTH round pick who has been out the entire season with an injury. You'd think he'd get worked back into the lineup slowly, no? YET, first week he's available, he plays the whole game(while Gilbert still sits and waits for his turn). And, you know what?.....Gaines did a few good things, but had some TERRIBLE plays as well....gave up long passes....had long PI penalties.....basically got burned. Yet...he stayed in and, in just one week, now has as many reps as Gilbert has had all season. When asked, Pettine said "we wanted to get him some time and see what he can do"....Umm, HELLLOOOOO.....How about the same for Gilbert buddy?....contradictory bullshit right there..... Erving....Ima give this guy a pass so far. Look, he's a Tackle who's played some center. So we draft him high and put him at guard. But, instead of allowing him to learn the position as a rookie, we also work him at RT....C....RG.....and LT......SO, we basically work him at 4 positions on the line, which HAS to hurt his development, cause how many rookies can learn 4 positions???...But here is the kicker....we play him at TE....and then his first start is at LG....2 positions he's never played or practiced. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with these guys. I felt bad for Erving and think Pettine deserved every one of Cams fuck ups yesterday. Poor kid. Hope they dont ruin his confidence. I know this is long...sorry,,,,but wanted to see it all together....so if your still with me....GREAT! When Pettine started, I liked his tough guy stance with the kids. Felt some discipline was good and letting them earn it was also good. BUT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. It is completely ridiculous at this point. When the team is losing every game, playing and STARTING guys like Solomon, Bademosi, Turbin, Meder, while sitting talent like JF, Gilbert, Winston, Mingo & Bowe...it makes no sense....other than to establish that Coach CLEARLY plays favorites.....and the favorites are NOT determined by quality of play..... You cant say "We want to see what Gaines or Turbin have and playing them is the only way".......when you aren't doing the same with all the other guys......its a bullshit contradiction.... I hate to say this.....Ive back Pettine ALL THE WAY....100%......and I HATE the idea of another coach....but he has to go....NOW,,,,if the FO wants their picks to ever learn the game..... We will NEVER win anything with all our talent inactive or on the bench. And if our coach only plays guys "he likes", then we will never win anything.......ever...... One last bitch....we were suppose to see "graduate level" D this year......really?....hahahahaha And Kruger sucks.....completely.....try sitting him a few games Pet...... good post...I think pettine is gone and probably alot of the assistant coaches as well...they are all bad. The players. I think benjamin, hawkins, gabriel would be good arena football league players. Seriously, they have arms and legs like toothpicks...they get crushed and fumble, get thrown backwards, drop passes, can't block. Ever see how larry fitzgerald blocks. He probably would start on our ol because he blocks better than most of our ol starters. They don't belong in the nfl just like many others we drafted like massaqua etc etc. So it is not just bad coaching. We don't have the nfl fit at just about every position. And the circus continues....not a very pretty picture at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I know this is not reflected in the record, but I think the new OC is doing a good job, or is a very good magician adept with smoke/mirrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 and he knows more about football in one brain cell than you will ever know. let's see your resume compared to his? love people that call someone out or yell and scream to get someone fired yet if the shoe was on the other foot would be shocked and in dismay that people can be such assholes. so when you started on your career path doing whatever it is you do, did you know everything there is to know about your job in your first year? no learning curve? no OTJ training? you just walked in and were top notch, top level and had nothing to ever learn. and now that you are a manager and have 10 dummies to manage and not all of them are good dummies, people from outside are saying you should be fired because you can't manage your dummies. meanwhile this is your dream job and your family depends on you. you are praying every night that some asshole like you is not calling you a dumb shit and writing to your boss and asking for your job. meanwhile that asshole knows jack shit about what you do or how you do it. just an asshole is all. Fair points. However - - I was qualified for my job, I didn't receive it because everyone else turned it down. - I didn't immediately turn around and hire my friend for a position that he in unqualified for, then let my friend turn an already bad department into the worst department in the company and, further, the country. - I didn't develop a weird tiff with my manager and refuse to use the third-party tools that he purchased or the interns he hired for me to do my job. - I actually grew as an employee over my time with said company, not regress. - I didn't give my idiot intern carte blanche to do whatever he wanted, while micromanaging my other, smart intern. - I held myself accountable for my shortcomings. Anointing mediocre-to-bad coaches as some types of football geniuses just because they managed to make it to that level is idiocy. We are only about ten years removed from the guy being nothing more than a high school head coach. We're only about six years removed from him being a position coach. I'd venture a guess that there are more than a few posters on this board who are not a stone's throw away from the knowledge level of an NFL position coach, just lack the experience or the connections to get there. Football is not rocket science. It's nothing but jargon-filled chess - the concepts are rather universal and the "innovation" that goes into the game isn't mind-blowing. Hell, even you could probably be a coach somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Think back to the Chud hiring.....we tapped Horton and Turner who had more experience in their pinkies, than this whole staff has.... And it was said they would be just what Chud needed, as he acclimated...heck, Turner was even a HC before.... But I dont see how all these brand new, totally green guys are going to demand respect from the players or create a level of confidence within the team...... And considering "new" guys are bound to make mistakes, I guess we've tripled or quadrupled our odds of that happening, because they are all new...eh? Finally...my favorite....the Peter principle....which says that as long as people do their job well, they will get promoted to the next level........ which is where they will live.....so, many companies(and maybe teams?) are bogged down by people performing one level above their capacity.....could this be the case here? Is Oneill a LB coach or DC.....Is Flip a QB coach or OC.....Is Pettine just a good DC or a HC?......Is it "likely" that all 3 are ready for their promotions?......hard to tell and NO ONE....including the gm and owner....has the experience to REALLY know....none of them...cause all 5 of the top guys are rookies....all 5..... THAT is not surrounding yourself with success...or knowledge.....or experience..... And I think its LAUGHABLE that ALL 5 get to make mistake after mistake and act stubbornly, but they DONT offer the same opportunity to their "new players"...who, apparently, are not permitted to have growing pains... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 There is a simple answer, but many people want to keep blaming the general manager. What is Pettine's experience leading and developing young talent to mold them into NFL players? He has been a coordinator on some good defensive teams, albeit under performing ones, especially against the run. Managing personnel development and building a winning team, not from a week-to-week basis, is one of the primary jobs of a head coach. For whatever reason, Pettine is speaking like he's in a one week bubble with his only focus on the team's next opponent. That's isn't just weird, it's insane. His personnel decisions are questionable as Mud laid out already, and has nothing to do with the players Farmer drafted -- since Pettine continues to say he was on board with and involved in every pick Farmer made. If they're going to deflect blame to their "Groupthink" approach, and they can't work those players into their game plans after they reached consensus on them, then their process is broken and they both need to be fired. Immediately. Being likeable and having a shaved head don't excuse you from losing 13 of your last 15 games, and looking like an amateur in the process. What has Mike Pettine shown anyone that says he has improved the organization or his players after 26 games as the head coach? -- I'll hang up and listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I know Im ranting.....but I just cant seem to stop..... Traymon is a class guy and a true pro, so for him to speak out today says a lot.... Look, we brought in Kruger, Traymon, Whitner, along with other vets like Starks, Dansby, etc...... You know why?.....because they were veterans and because they had won before..... and you know what the Browns said when these guys came in?>......they said "they will show the rookies how to be pros and how to win"...."because they've been there, done that and know what it takes".... SO, if this is true, why do they NOT apply that same thinking to the LEADERS of this team....the ones making all the decisions? More hypocrisy and contradiction..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDDawg Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 He went 9-7 in buffalo, which was a good result, then got run out of town. Ask the bills guy (George?) about how he's viewed there. If you think Pettine is egotistical, he's like the pope compared to Marrone. Marrone wasn't run out of town he exploited a loophole in his contract to walk away with $4m, hoping another team would hire him as head coach and he'd double down. The gamble failed and he ended up as an O-line coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I know Im ranting.....but I just cant seem to stop..... Traymon is a class guy and a true pro, so for him to speak out today says a lot.... Look, we brought in Kruger, Traymon, Whitner, along with other vets like Starks, Dansby, etc...... You know why?.....because they were veterans and because they had won before..... and you know what the Browns said when these guys came in?>......they said "they will show the rookies how to be pros and how to win"...."because they've been there, done that and know what it takes".... SO, if this is true, why do they NOT apply that same thinking to the LEADERS of this team....the ones making all the decisions? More hypocrisy and contradiction..... Great point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 agree with a lot have said in response to my post defending this regime. so pettine is 10 years removed from being a hs coach? how long was holmgren removed from coaching when everyone on here (except me AHAH!) exclaimed him the second coming of christ and the savior of the franchise and was hired? so experience means shit in my eyes. did anyone of you bone heads ever think that the reason he doesn't admit fault or is very 'egotistical' (which i don't see at all) is that he is learning from other pros, just in this specific case with the media. who's the best at it? yep. belichick. who did pettine's teams play against? yep, belichick. do yourself a favor and watch the 30/30 on belichick and the 96 browns. all those so called rookie coaches went on to become somebody more significant that what we've had since the move. and yet we have to nitpick someone a year and a half in. man if half of us had this type of criticism while on the job there'd prob be a lot more dead people at mcdonalds everyday. haslam is a biz man and i think he'll live up to his word and give these guys another year, whether you like it or not. and then when they start gelling and winning watch all you cats change your tune. Especially when you have very good talent that "all of a sudden" cant compete....ala Joe Haden, Tramon Williams, Dwayne Bowe, our entire O Line, Kruger, Whitner, Gipson, Hartline....and many others.... uh you do know that half those guys are hurt, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 haslam is a biz man and i think he'll live up to his word and give these guys another year, whether you like it or not. and then when they start gelling and winning watch all you cats change your tune. I hope you're right about both of these things. I hope he gets another year and I hope the winning follows. I do like him and I want him to be the successful coach of the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I hope you're right about both of these things. I hope he gets another year and I hope the winning follows. I do like him and I want him to be the successful coach of the Browns. I hope you're right about both of these things. I hope he gets another year and I hope the winning follows. I do like him and I want him to be the successful coach of the Browns. I know Im ranting.....but I just cant seem to stop..... Traymon is a class guy and a true pro, so for him to speak out today says a lot.... Look, we brought in Kruger, Traymon, Whitner, along with other vets like Starks, Dansby, etc...... You know why?.....because they were veterans and because they had won before..... and you know what the Browns said when these guys came in?>......they said "they will show the rookies how to be pros and how to win"...."because they've been there, done that and know what it takes".... SO, if this is true, why do they NOT apply that same thinking to the LEADERS of this team....the ones making all the decisions? More hypocrisy and contradiction..... yeah, but you know what mud. We did this before with the same results. mcginnis, jurevicious, lewis etc...if i remember correctly, it didn't work out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeputyDawg Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 You make lots of very valid points Mudfly as usual, and fairly put. There is just something I'm not comfortable about seeing Pettine get axed when you correctly point out all the top guys are rookies in this business. That to me is the key mistake, but it's been made and we live in the now. If Pettine's record next year continues along the same path as the last 15 games then he has to go. Miktoxic imo is right when he says these guys have got to learn and grow. It's a brutal job to be in and they don't get given long, but 1.5 years isn't long enough. Other factors I think should be considered are our schedule this year and the fact that the AFC North is a tough division. What I really liked about your argument was that it was built around inconsistencies, and there certainly do appear to be some glaring ones now you point them out, and let's hope he sorts that out because the clock is certainly ticking for Pettine. Haslam isn't known for patience even though he is on record for saying he won't fire Pettine or Farmer no matter what happens this year. I guess the key for me is that very few really successful teams have been built around the hiring and firing model and 5 HCs in 9 years goes a long way to explain to me why we are still are where we don't want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Great Post! Agree all the way. I've been saying all year where are the guys we drafted? I think Gilbert will be good. The game against the Colts last year, interception for TD. Then he disappeared forever? I agree very much about Cameron Erving. He was a great draft pick. I am afraid they will ruin him too. In my opinion, they need a new Head Coach, and defensive coordinator. Maybe go back to the 4-3 or a scheme that isn't so complicated. You didn't mention Shaun Draugn being picked up by San Fransisco. I played him on one fantasy team. Some other teams that are trending up are Minnesota with Bridgewater, Anthony Barr, Stefon Diggs. Minnesota is well coached and 7-2. The Raiders are making good use of recent draft picks that were staring the Browns in the face when we passed on them. A good organization we all know starts at the top and trickles down. So there has got to be changes made in the front office again. Two years ago Banner went behind Haslam's back when he turned Schiano away. That's why he was fired. I say we go after Schiano and Mike Singletary or wait for the season ending firings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 agree with a lot have said in response to my post defending this regime. so pettine is 10 years removed from being a hs coach? how long was holmgren removed from coaching when everyone on here (except me AHAH!) exclaimed him the second coming of christ and the savior of the franchise and was hired? so experience means shit in my eyes. did anyone of you bone heads ever think that the reason he doesn't admit fault or is very 'egotistical' (which i don't see at all) is that he is learning from other pros, just in this specific case with the media. who's the best at it? yep. belichick. who did pettine's teams play against? yep, belichick. do yourself a favor and watch the 30/30 on belichick and the 96 browns. all those so called rookie coaches went on to become somebody more significant that what we've had since the move. and yet we have to nitpick someone a year and a half in. man if half of us had this type of criticism while on the job there'd prob be a lot more dead people at mcdonalds everyday. haslam is a biz man and i think he'll live up to his word and give these guys another year, whether you like it or not. and then when they start gelling and winning watch all you cats change your tune. uh you do know that half those guys are hurt, correct? I'm not sure what your point is with Holmgren...because it seems to be making mine? Holmgren was never our HC, we hired for a job in which he had absolutely zero experience. Being a good HC doesn't mean you're going to be a good GM/President/what have you. To quote the immortal Mitch Hedberg, that's like saying "oh, so you're a cook...can you farm?" Success in one field doesn't equate success in a different, yet related, field. Haslam is a business man who also fired a HC after one year...and Chud's team did a whole lot more with a whole lot less. In case you forgot, we were 17th on offense and 9th on defense in Chud's lone year. So, I don't think Haslam is too worried about "living up to his word". They won't start "gelling and winning" when they are trying to force square pegs into round holes. That's the point. If Pettine becomes successful - more power to him. That's what I, and everyone else, wants. But he won't find any success until he stops his high school bullshit like playing his favorites and letting his dumbass friends be defensive coordinator with no repercussions. Stop fucking around with cutesy sub-packages on defense, stop playing the "hot" hand in the offensive backfield. Put the most talented players on the field and scale back down to a base defense. Put the ball in Duke's hands 20 times a game through runs and screens, exploit the defense when they try to bring six every play, deliver two early strikes to Benjamin when you read cover none to keep the defense honest, then run stretch plays sideline to sideline and let Duke plant his foot, make his cut and go. Just play smart football and stop trying to outwit the other coach - because you're not going to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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