MDDawg Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 According to Peter Smith: http://nflspinzone.com/2015/10/07/cleveland-browns-design-not-just-execution-hurting-defense/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I mean, we are not the most talented defense in the NFL - although maybe highly paid. We are definitely better talent-wise than they're playing though, especially being ranked at the bottom against average offenses. When the talent is there, but the performance isn't - the logical place to look for answers is the coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Still din't understand why Mingo can't be used as a pass rusher, didnt he register a sack in his first four NFL games as a rookie? Granted we don't see him in practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I don't understand ...why the hell take Danny Shelton out of the lineup on pass plays? He demands attention from two olinemen...wouldn't that help Cooper get to the qb? what the.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Reminds me of the famous John McKay presser quote after yet another dismal Tampa Bay loss: Reporter: "Coach, what do you think of your Offense's execution?" McKay: "I'm in favor of it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 These coaches are questionable that's for sure. WTF better not be our slogan all year. Go back to the 4-3 and let these players excel at their natural positions. Shelton, Cooper, and Orchard were good picks. Utilize your talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Great article. It defies logic that Kruger is used in coverage, that Mingo is used as a run defender, that Bademosi sees the field during any down other than "4," etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I don't understand ...why the hell take Danny Shelton out of the lineup on pass plays? He demands attention from two olinemen...wouldn't that help Cooper get to the qb? what the.....? Same reason the Vikings would take AP off the field on 3rd down......... Coaches over thinking a simple game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Great article. It defies logic that Kruger is used in coverage, that Mingo is used as a run defender, that Bademosi sees the field during any down other than "4," etc. I was screaming about this here in preseason when we first saw it. When Solomon was still playing he would be the 4th guy on the line with his hands down and Kruger would be standing but still up on the line...basically running a 5-2. It's one of the stupidest personnel moves I've ever seen in football. Whats ultimately the most troublesome is that this wasn't something they tried out of necessity, they probably had Kruger drop more weight (and likely strength as the result) in the offseason in preparation for having basically act like a 4-3 OLB'er. He's finished as a viable pass rushing entity in the NFL. He should have gone to a 4-3 team after leaving Blt and stayed in the 280's, which is where he was when he was actually beating tackles 1v1 around the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Herm Edwards is on Mike&Mike this morning. "Know Your Players" is your #1 job as a coach. You must put your players in a position to succeed. IF all of these things are true, the defensive coaching staff [and possibly Pettine as well because he had to have signed off on all of this] needs to be fired yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Like I've been saying, the fire the coach ship sailed about two coaches ago. We're stuck with it. Just have to deal. I'm serious, they can't be fired. The long term dmg to this team will be irreparable for at least a decade if not more. We'll see a procession of division 2 coaches wanting to sniff the bigs so they can go back and land a D1 job. That's not hyperbole or exaggeration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Like I've been saying, the fire the coach ship sailed about two coaches ago. We're stuck with it. Just have to deal. I'm serious, they can't be fired. The long term dmg to this team will be irreparable for at least a decade if not more. We'll see a procession of division 2 coaches wanting to sniff the bigs so they can go back and land a D1 job. That's not hyperbole or exaggeration. Well, if the defense situation doesn't turn around quick I would say it's a pretty safe bet O'Neil will be shown the door at years end. Pettine's safe though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Well, if the defense situation doesn't turn around quick I would say it's a pretty safe bet O'Neil will be shown the door at years end. Pettine's safe though. but if it's Pettine's D what'll be the diff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 but if it's Pettine's D what'll be the diff? Well you could say if Pettine was in charge of play calling and player rotations/position then maybe things would be different. I think our problems are (almost) entirely correctable but they seem to just keep getting worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 The analogy is to Jimmy Graham.. Anyone who drafted him for fantasy is disappointed -- because the OC in Seattle does not put him in position to "succeed" [via catches/TD's] as he can. In NO in 2014, Graham lined up as a in-line TE only 30% of the time. In Seattle, it's near 80%. Jimmy Graham doesn't suck.. he's just not a blocking TE. Kruger is not a cover LB. Mingo does not set the edge. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 The analogy is to Jimmy Graham.. Anyone who drafted him for fantasy is disappointed -- because the OC in Seattle does not put him in position to "succeed" [via catches/TD's] as he can. In NO in 2014, Graham lined up as a in-line TE only 30% of the time. In Seattle, it's near 80%. Jimmy Graham doesn't suck.. he's just not a blocking TE. Kruger is not a cover LB. Mingo does not set the edge. etc. I have him on my fantasy and it's been pretty depressing. You have to be a total idiot of a coach if you can't figure out how to utilize Graham's size, athletic ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/10/browns_jim_oneil_defends_schem.html#incart_river Jim O'Neil blames execution, not scheme for the worst defense in the NFL. Sorry Jim, but you have a decent defense and made them worse than they've been for a pretty long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 To a degree he's right, but what I've been saying is that they don't have the talent to execute this scheme. Why the staff doesn't understand that I have no idea. They don't have the personnel to run the things they want to, so you don't run what you were doing in Buffalo because there you had some legit all world athletes. I think we may have a better secondary then them, but on the front 7 they have minimum 3 guys that not only do we not have, it's debateable whether we've ever had that kind of talent in team history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 To a degree he's right, but what I've been saying is that they don't have the talent to execute this scheme. Why the staff doesn't understand that I have no idea. They don't have the personnel to run the things they want to, so you don't run what you were doing in Buffalo because there you had some legit all world athletes. I think we may have a better secondary then them, but on the front 7 they have minimum 3 guys that not only do we not have, it's debateable whether we've ever had that kind of talent in team history. An NFL coach should be able to recognize this and modify scheme based on the personnel he has. Everybody should play where they're most effective. We don't have that now, which is why O'Neil is under fire. His unwillingness to change things that aren't working or change player assignments is cause for concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 An NFL coach should be able to recognize this and modify scheme based on the personnel he has. Everybody should play where they're most effective. We don't have that now, which is why O'Neil is under fire. His unwillingness to change things that aren't working or change player assignments is cause for concern. I 100% agree. Maybe they thought they could do some of the same things they did in Buffalo but woefully over estimated the talent here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/10/browns_jim_oneil_defends_schem.html#incart_river Jim O'Neil blames execution, not scheme for the worst defense in the NFL. Sorry Jim, but you have a decent defense and made them worse than they've been for a pretty long time. Jim, if the defense doesn't improve soon- you're going to get executed the end of the year. It was pointed out elsewhere- what's killing this defense is an occasional lapse that's resulted in huge plays. Like having Whitner try and cover Amari Cooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I 100% agree. Maybe they thought they could do some of the same things they did in Buffalo but woefully over estimated the talent here. Getting rid of Taylor and letting guys like Sheared walk was dumb , too!.. Athyba Rhubin aint doing to bad right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Getting rid of Taylor and letting guys like Sheared walk was dumb , too!.. Athyba Rhubin aint doing to bad right now. I heard that...and like everyone was so sure Rubin was done. It just boggles my mind. Sheard I understood at the time letting walk cause he's a 4-3 guy and it just seemed like we had too many strong side LB'ers. I haven't been paying much attention to his stats in NE but they run a 4-3 now right? So he goes back to putting his hands down and now his career is picking up, FFS. Why couldn't our staff look at the talent we had and just ran a 4-3? We could have both Bryants and Kruger/Sheard rotating at ends. I'll have to check but I'll bet NE put those lb's back on Sheard during the offseason and that's why he's resurgent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I heard that...and like everyone was so sure Rubin was done. It just boggles my mind. Sheard I understood at the time letting walk cause he's a 4-3 guy and it just seemed like we had too many strong side LB'ers. I haven't been paying much attention to his stats in NE but they run a 4-3 now right? So he goes back to putting his hands down and now his career is picking up, FFS. Why couldn't our staff look at the talent we had and just ran a 4-3? We could have both Bryants and Kruger/Sheard rotating at ends. I'll have to check but I'll bet NE put those lb's back on Sheard during the offseason and that's why he's resurgent. "Well it isn't really right to identify as 3-4 or 4-3 because we run a mixed scheme and will fit it to the talent we have it will always be different" blah, blah The incompetence is truly hard to grasp, it's no coincidence Sheard's productivity went down when we changed to a 3-4 under Horton, but both Horton and Pettine/O'Neil said they're "not 3-4 guys" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 This Sunday against the ravens would be a great time to start executing. No need to wait until the season is lost to start doing things right. Both clubs are 1-3 and the winner will have the chance to salvage their season while the loser at 1-4 the season looks really bleak. Not a time to panic but time to see a sense of urgency out of the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 , but both Horton and Pettine/O'Neil said they're "not 3-4 guys" really? that's weird given the 3-4 is all any of em have ever run their whole careers which was my understanding. Hell Pettine stood up Mario Williams in Buffalo who had been a "strict" 4-3 DE his whole career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 really? that's weird given the 3-4 is all any of em have ever run their whole careers which was my understanding. Hell Pettine stood up Mario Williams in Buffalo who had been a "strict" 4-3 DE his whole career. I know what they are, but they both gave the same narrative when people expressed concern of switching to a 3-4/running the 3-4. Basically that they're "hybrid" guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I know what they are, but they both gave the same narrative when people expressed concern of switching to a 3-4/running the 3-4. Basically that they're "hybrid" guys. I honestly thought last year that we had some sweet personnel to run a Hybrid cause of Kruger and Mingo......sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 This thread is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDDawg Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 New England run a 3-4 base which Sheard is excelling in. Why can't they use Mingo's speed to pressure the passer, that's his strength after all, then putting Kruger in pass coverage and relying on journeyman Scott Solomon who played all of one quarter this season is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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