LogicIsForSquares Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Before Manziel was made starter, I don't recall the offense using it that often. It seemed like the Bengals d-line was at the handoff whenever they tried to run the pistol. I know it probably caters to Manziel's abilities but it fucked everything up and I don't think it will work at the pro level. It will get the kid murdered. Tour, you would know more than most, how often did the team use the Pistol before Manziel got placed into the lineup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Before Manziel was made starter, I don't recall the offense using it that often. It seemed like the Bengals d-line was at the handoff whenever they tried to run the pistol. I know it probably caters to Manziel's abilities but it fucked everything up and I don't think it will work at the pro level. It will get the kid murdered. Tour, you would know more than most, how often did the team use the Pistol before Manziel got placed into the lineup? Until this week Pistol use has probably been less than five times a game. We've seen it a little more recently as the "Power Pistol" was unveiled, adding an offset FB or HB to the formation. Without a doubt Sunday set a new record for the formation. I do note the sets for every play. If I have time I'll flip through the pages and do a count. But first I have the 2nd half of the IND game to finish grading as well as the CIN rematch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Good deal. I look forward to what the numbers have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Got that read-option analysis yet, Ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'm hoping they ditch the pistol L myself. It requires the Oline to sustain blocks longer and they're having issues doing that. Also on the boot action its not as effective holding the backside DE as a rollout under center would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 They need to work on it more. Just not enough reps changing the offense to something completely different. I think they will be better this week. I think it is a great way to get Manziel murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypicalBrowns Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Wish they would've ran the offense Hoyer ran. Seemed like everyone was off on offense. Timing and everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonLegthigh Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 From what I remember we used pistol a lot more in the first few games. As the season went on with hoyer we used it less and less. My theory is that as the team was learning the offense (earlier in the year) they used a set that more basic plays are ran from. As the team progressed and learned it was used less. Switching to JF made us need to go back to a more basic and limited offense, hence more plays from the pistol. It is also JF strong formation, or is supposed to be at least. Not sure how on or off this assessment may be, but its what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5150k9 Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Wish they would've ran the offense Hoyer ran. Seemed like everyone was off on offense. Timing and everything I Totally agree. I will admit JM looked like shit and at times he looked way over whelmed. This is just my observation tho, the total offense looked like they were all confused, and not on the same page. I believe its because they went pistol and read option so much, the line and everyone else was not familiar in playing that style. So my blame is more on the staff that they played a style the O was not used to playing. Go back to the original style, and let JM scramble and ad-lib if needed. Just My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Wish they would've ran the offense Hoyer ran. Seemed like everyone was off on offense. Timing and everything Manziel never really played under center in college maybe that's part of it. Regardless running pistol every series didn't seem to help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 True, bb... but I had the impression that JM had more success under center. Certainly seemed like his play action while dropping had more impact than his keeps off the read from the Pistol. Anyway looks like Leg gets the memory award... After very early, impassioned affair with the pistol, we put it away for the most part except for a little flirting. Usually in situations where we were behind... Dawggie style? Week-Pistols/Plays 01 - 21/67 - @PTG 02 - 12/75 - NO 03 - 6/62 -- BLT 05 - 5/78 -- @TN 06 - 1/59 -- PTG 07 - 8/76 -- @JAX 08 - 3/56 -- OAK 09 - 1/65 -- TB 10 - 1/77 -- @CIN 11 - 4/72 -- HOU 12 - 3/76 -- @ATL 13 - 3/70 -- @BUF 14 - 2/38 at the half vs. IND 15 - Complete Wks 14 & 15 to come... maybe tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonLegthigh Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Anyway looks like Leg gets the memory award... That's pretty impressive given all the weed I used to smoke. My quitting now seems so validated. As for my theory of a possible more simplified version of Shanny's offense being run from the pistol, any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacosman Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Look ultimately it probably doesn't matter what offense the browns run with JF. Playmakers make plays....whether it's the pistol, read option, I, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Look ultimately it probably doesn't matter what offense the browns run with JF. Playmakers make plays....whether it's the pistol, read option, I, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonLegthigh Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Look ultimately it probably doesn't matter what offense the browns run with JF. Playmakers make plays....whether it's the pistol, read option, I, etc.... But I thought JF was a playmaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Ultimately he probably is, Leg... Look ultimately it probably doesn't matter what offense the browns run with JF. Playmakers make plays....whether it's the pistol, read option, I, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 They need to work on it more. Just not enough reps changing the offense to something completely different. I think they will be better this week. Wow way to go out on a limb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Look ultimately it probably doesn't matter what offense the browns run with JF. Playmakers make plays....whether it's the pistol, read option, I, etc.... Turn off your Xbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Week-Pistols/Plays 01 - 21/67 - @PTG 02 - 12/75 - NO 03 - 6/62 -- BLT 05 - 5/78 -- @TN 06 - 1/59 -- PTG 07 - 8/76 -- @JAX 08 - 3/56 -- OAK 09 - 1/65 -- TB 10 - 1/77 -- @CIN 11 - 4/72 -- HOU 12 - 3/76 -- @ATL 13 - 3/70 -- @BUF 14 - 2/38 at the half vs. IND 15 - Complete Wks 14 & 15 to come... maybe tomorrow. Curious..... is it tomorrow yet? Haha.....appreciate all you do, so no rush....but still wondering....how many pistol formations last week???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside5 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I think it is a great way to get Manziel murdered. It's also a good way to put interior lineman on IR. GO BROWNS ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Curious..... is it tomorrow yet? Haha.....appreciate all you do, so no rush....but still wondering....how many pistol formations last week???? I can send you a PM with my PayPal addy... This past week, as you are likely now aware, our Pistol count was: Week 15 22/42 vs. CIN ... Even added a "Full-House" pistol. Also ran 2 in IND's 2nd half for a total of 4/64. And Ever... I saw a grand total of 2 read-options vs. CIN. The first JM kept after a gross misread, and the DE buried him. The second was a near disaster as West bobbled the ball on his way to an 8-yard gain. A few other Pistols had Read-option looks, but weren't. They were either predetermined hand-offs or PAP calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I can send you a PM with my PayPal addy... This past week, as you are likely now aware, our Pistol count was: Week 15 22/42 vs. CIN ... Even added a "Full-House" pistol. Also ran 2 in IND's 2nd half for a total of 4/64. And Ever... I saw a grand total of 2 read-options vs. CIN. The first JM kept after a gross misread, and the DE buried him. The second was a near disaster as West bobbled the ball on his way to an 8-yard gain. A few other Pistols had Read-option looks, but weren't. They were either predetermined hand-offs or PAP calls. Great thanks.....so compiled.... 01 - 21/67 - @PTG 02 - 12/75 - NO 03 - 6/62 -- BLT 05 - 5/78 -- @TN 06 - 1/59 -- PTG 07 - 8/76 -- @JAX 08 - 3/56 -- OAK 09 - 1/65 -- TB 10 - 1/77 -- @CIN 11 - 4/72 -- HOU 12 - 3/76 -- @ATL 13 - 3/70 -- @BUF 14 - 4/64 -- @ Indy 15 - 22/42 -- @Cinn Wow! Big difference..... So, ima guess this is an attempt to "utilize" JFF's special skills? As opposed to asking him to perform more like a prototype pocket QB? I know Ive heard many say we should adopt a special offensive system that highlights his strengths and all....but now maybe they're saying "why did we change things up for Johnny?"....I dunno... So, this week do we go back to the Hoyer style offense and not use JFF's skills?....or do we stick with the JFF's Special offense and put him(and the team) in a difficult position because it's not what Hoyer had?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Great thanks.....so compiled.... Except IND and CIN were home games... The pistol has been neck and neck with the I as our least effective set all year. It's high use rate had to contribute to our poor showing vs. CIN. It certainly did nothing to showcase JM's skills, which is the only plausible reason to use it. The Pistol is a significantly weaker platform for play-action and it absolutely eliminates bootlegs. Both have been staples of this offense all year. Sprinkle it in? Sure. Feature it? No.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 The offense for Hoyer was better. Play action and run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Except IND and CIN were home games... The pistol has been neck and neck with the I as our least effective set all year. It's high use rate had to contribute to our poor showing vs. CIN. It certainly did nothing to showcase JM's skills, which is the only plausible reason to use it. The Pistol is a significantly weaker platform for play-action and it absolutely eliminates bootlegs. Both have been staples of this offense all year. Sprinkle it in? Sure. Feature it? No.... It was pretty clear that Cinci decided to force the pass by being 100% committed to stopping the run. Pretty much saying to us "if your gonna beat us, JFF and the passing game are the only way....."" I wonder if this was charted and planned...or was shanny reacting, rather than attempting to dictate.... Was the Pistol equal through the game, or did the reps "increase" or "decrease" as the game went on?....any notable in game adjustments in terms of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 It was pretty clear that Cinci decided to force the pass by being 100% committed to stopping the run. Pretty much saying to us "if your gonna beat us, JFF and the passing game are the only way....."" I wonder if this was charted and planned...or was shanny reacting, rather than attempting to dictate.... Was the Pistol equal through the game, or did the reps "increase" or "decrease" as the game went on?....any notable in game adjustments in terms of that? Pretty much what everybody was saying teams were doing to Hoyer then? I don't understand running so many pistol sets in the game, non-adaptable game planning by shanahan. Maybe the coaches saw something on tape that they thought they could exploit cincy with. Regardless, the fact the offense wasn't working should have provoked shanahan to make some changes - but it didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Was the Pistol equal through the game, or did the reps "increase" or "decrease" as the game went on?....any notable in game adjustments in terms of that? But.. but... but... Johnny was supposed to put an end to stacking vs. the run. So if it did not that means that people here were lying to us... StockBoy was lying to us... *sniff* Now to bizness... I am very close to offering subscriptions... 1st Half S1: 3 plays ... no pistols S2: 3 plays ... 2 power pistols S3: 5 plays ... 2 pistols and 2 power pistols S4: 3 plays ... no pistols S5:11 plays ... 6 pistols 2nd Half S6: 3 plays ... 3 pistols S7: 3 plays ... 3 pistols S8: 7 plays ... 3 pistols S9: 3 plays ... no pistols S10:1 plays ... nada pistol JM was under center only 4 times the entire game: 2 I's, 1 power I, and one SingleBack. I feel pretty safe in saying that SB has been our most productive formation this year... ... but if you ask for the data I will cut you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 But.. but... but... Johnny was supposed to put an end to stacking vs. the run. So if it did not that means that people here were lying to us... StockBoy was lying to us... *sniff* I feel pretty safe in saying that SB has been our most productive formation this year... ... but if you ask for the data I will cut you off. Thank you......Ill take it and ask no more.... Looks like shanny had a plan and was gonna see it thru....maybe an adjustment at the end....maybe an anomaly.... Gonna be a verrrry interesting game...looking fwd to seeing what shanny does with him..... for me this weeks game is like door #3 on let's make a deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Thank you......Ill take it and ask no more.... Looks like shanny had a plan and was gonna see it thru....maybe an adjustment at the end....maybe an anomaly.... LOL.. the "cut off" was a joke... just being sure. I thought The Pistol and the read option were going to be significant in the CIN game. But once the read-option falls to the wayside, I no longer see enough advantage in the Pistol to make any OC stick with it. Late in the game everything that was not a Pistol was a Shotgun formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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