sell off the o line and front seven in the offseason...

[andeftw]

Good stuff... Not quite as relaxed for you today, eh?

 

And where in Italy?

 

Hehe not a good day at all...it's a sad day when I have to root for the Vikings and Niners in the hope the Pack maintain the #2 seed...

I'm in Milan, although I hope to move out of the country soon

[JAFBF]

 

In other words Haden's hit will rise at a much slower percentage rate than the cap? Isn't that a good thing?

 

 

Shopping players is a fire sale...

 

 

Laughter thru the pain...

 

 

OMFG... please tell me someone hacked your account.

 

Did we see the same game?

 

6 First downs, 3 of them from Penalties, just cracked 100 yds Offense on the last play . . .

 

D gave up 30 points, and that was probably cause the game was a wrap.

 

 

This was a meaningful game, yet this Team just came out cause they had too apparently - didn't see much effectiveness on either side of the line.

In fact, both Lines were horrid.

 

 

This Team plain out QUIT today . . . and for the Season as there's now nothing to play for.

Something is wrong when there is so much on the line and you don't come out do something.

First two series Bengals 22 plays versus 3 and out, 4 and done, 10 zip.

 

 

I never really expected the Playoffs this year, but this Team . . .

[andeftw]

 

It was a fan friendly pick but you drafted Haden I believe 7th and picked Gilbert 8th. Gilbert then should be the new Haden and Skrine is the opposite guy and you spend that money in other places. The beauty of the NFL is through the draft you can drastically improve your team, the bad news is if you draft poorly you lose ground. The Patriots will let people go that are cap issues, Revis next year, and reload in the 4th round of the draft.

 

The Packers are successful year in and year out because they draft well and lock up their young talent and let go those who they can replace. You can't let one of the best corners in the league go when he has yet to hit the prime of his career, especially when you invested a top 10 (or what is top 5?) pick in him just a few years earlier.

The Patriots are smart in their salary cap management, but they do not let top talent leave for cap issues unless it can't be avoided. Revis is getting paid 12M$ this year, which is probably the most expensive one year deal for a non quarterback. BB won't hesitate to pay top dollar for players who are worth it, just take a look at the extension they gave Gronk a few years ago...

[miktoxic]

this thread is a joke.

 

i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.

 

so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.

 

remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.

 

the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.

[JAFBF]

this thread is a joke.

 

i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.

 

so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.

 

remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.

 

the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.

 

That's the point.

 

We play like than and follow up with a shit game . . . repeatedly.

 

We're setting frickin' records for badness.

 

 

CLEVELAND -- There are bad losses and there are painful losses.

 

But in Johnny Manziel's first start, the Cleveland Browns put an historic loss on the field, up there with the worst of the many historic Browns losses since the team returned to the field in 1999. It came in a big game, at a time when a much-hyped quarterback was supposed to give a spark as Cleveland made a final playoff push.

 

All the talk all week was Manziel this and Manziel that. But everyone forgot that the other team has a say, and those with the Browns who felt Manziel would give the Browns a better chance to win have some seriously bad numbers to digest following a 30-0 loss Sunday.

 

Among them:

• The Browns were shut out for the first time since November of 2009.
• Manziel becomes the sixth quarterback in the last 20 years to be shut out in his first start, and the first since Rusty Smith of Tennessee in 2010. The others: Dave Ragone of Houston (2003), Henry Burris of Chicago (2002), Spergon Wynn of Cleveland (2000) and Danny Wuerffel of New Orleans (1997).
• Manziel is the 21st starting quarterback for the Browns since 1999, and the fifth to be shut out in his first start. The others: Ty Detmer in the first game back in ’99, Bruce Gradkowski, Wynn and Doug Pederson. Pederson and Gradkowski joined the Browns the week before starting because of injuries to the starter.
• The offense had more than 100 yards for the day only because the Bengals scored a touchdown with 30 seconds left. The Browns got a final play with 18 seconds left and Manziel threw a slip screen for nine yards.
• To that point, the offense had the ball nine times, and had seven three-play possessions. Three of those were for negative yards.
• The Browns ran 38 offensive plays, the fewest by any team this season and fewest by the Browns since Week 1 of 1999, when they ran 28 plays against the Steelers in a 43-0 loss.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/10539/johnny-manziel-browns-provide-a-loss-for-the-ages

 

 

There's some kind of lackadaisical attitude or mentality in this Team that needs to be rooted out and done away with.

I thought we'd addressed this for the most part with some of the come back games we've had, but apparently it seems to rule supreme during the tail end of our Seasons.

[Tour2ma]

We are not at blow up stage... not even close.

[Lincoln Dukes]

had to stop watching this game for a bit cause this is just a Shiite mess. But what's become clear is that we don't have the personnel in place in a lot of key areas. I'm not suggesting a firesale where we sell off for shit, but we need to start shopping pretty much everyone we can get anything for. Even guys that are playing well. Even longtime Browns like JT.

 

Anybody on offense or defense save for our secondary...shop em!! Especially on the front seven..this just isn't working. The Bengals had 100 yds 2 minutes into the 2nd quarter. And this is the recurring theme all season. The only guy on the entire front seven I would want to hang on to is Robertson and only because he's been playing alright but we're still not gonna get a whole lot for him. Even Kruger if someone makes us a nice offer. I hate to say that cause he's one of the guys playing decently well but he's also one of the guys that someone "might" give us something for.

 

The front seven is just a sieve we will NOT be making any playoff push's with anytime soon. We have a window now where we have a secondary that could quite possibly be the best in the NFL save perhaps for Seattle. We're gonna waste that window with this front seven that doesn't stop the run and doesn't really get to the QB much. We need to rebuild the front now.

 

O line also needs either a full redo or at least a partial one. How many games have we seen DL living in our backfield? Yet another game we're seeing them meeting our QB at the handoff. That's a structural problem not procedural. Just the wrong people. And if any of you were paying attention to the announcers you heard one of the guys make a key observation that we don't get to see on the TV's.....none of our WR'ers are making moves to the open fields when Johnny was spilling out of the pocket. Maybe our whole WR corp needs an overhaul as well cause this game of all games was not one where we could afford lazy ass wr's that don't do what even D3 college wr'ers do. Maybe this is the Gordon effect that his lazy fucking ass is rubbing off on the other guys? I dunno.

 

We just need to get what we can. It's clear Pettine and Shanahan aren't going to get much done with this personnel. Gotta let em rebuild.

[Lincoln Dukes]

WHAT!?!? Oh, but keep "the future (jm)??? Shop that guy! We'll get a lot, then we'll get mack back & we'll be back to contending after our draft pick nets us a defensive lineman. I saw no potential in manziel today. Not a pocket passer. Not going to work. We've been duped.

[browns23]

Not sure how this turned into a blow everything up thread. We are 7-7 and have a chance for the first winning (or 500) season since 2007. A lot of the suggestions in this thread have been to create more holes (trading Thomas, Kruger, Bryant) than we already have which is absolutely insane. As far as I'm aware we are well under the salary cap going into next offseason even with contracts going up for our previous signings.

 

Injuries have completely derailed our season on each side of the ball. We need to get more depth on both sides of the line. I think if we had better depth we would be in a much better place now, which is what we should focus on for next season.

[The Cysko Kid]

As I mentioned in my first post on here, I'm a Packers fan with a strong, and perhaps unexplainable, appreciation of the Browns. Today I had to endure both watching both teams struggle like crazy.

The Packers' D finally showed up today, holding the Bills to 4 field goals despite taking the field inside their own 30 and at midfield when Rodgers threw his interceptions.

The passing offense was absolutely pathetic, considering it is widely recognized as one of the best in the league.

I did not come on here to complain about the Packers passing game, it's clearly not the place to do so, but to hopefully provide some perspective.

 

The Browns have one of the league's best and most consistent left tackles with a fairly team friendly cap hit for the next four seasons. They have one of the best centers in the league who will be back next season, and a very promising rookie guard who will only get better with time. I cannot provide judgment on Greco since I don't follow his play too closely. The weak link is obviously Schwartz, who was consistently getting beat by Dunlap.

On the defensive side of the ball, Phil Taylor is one of the best nose tackles in the league and will be back from injury next year. Bryant and Kruger were both expensive free agent acquisitions, but they are quality players at their respective positions, albeit slightly overpaid. Mingo flashes potential and then disappears for long stretches while Sheard is a pretty good pass rusher. The inside linebackers are nothing to write home about, but they are decent players nonetheless.

 

I am used to my team consistently winning double digit games per season, so I can see why people would be frustrated with how the season is turning out, but it's important to realize that this is year 1 of a new regime. The Browns clearly have issues at multiple positions but they should be able to fill these needs in free agency and during the draft so the future looks bright if they can get any form of stability at QB.

 

The way I see it, these three games are a try-out for Manziel. It's a chance to see what works for him in this offensive system and what areas of his game still need work so a plan can be put in the place in the offseason to get the most out of him next season and make sure this team gets back in the playoffs.

Gtfo. We don't want reason we want blood.

[bringbackbrownie2]

 

That's the point.

 

We play like than and follow up with a shit game . . . repeatedly.

 

We're setting frickin' records for badness.

 

There's some kind of lackadaisical attitude or mentality in this Team that needs to be rooted out and done away with.

I thought we'd addressed this for the most part with some of the come back games we've had, but apparently it seems to rule supreme during the tail end of our Seasons.

The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..

[JAFBF]

The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..

 

I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.

 

There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.

[andeftw]

Gtfo. We don't want reason we want blood.

 

Haha easy man! I'm just as pissed as you are, probably more so since I had to experience two losses but blood won't get you anywhere...

[tiamat63]

 

I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.

 

There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.

 

And whom would that be specifically?

[JAFBF]

 

And whom would that be specifically?

 

Coaches job to root that out.

[Manzier]

 

 

There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.

You're in their heads?

 

Since you what they're thinking, then you must know who too.

 

Ready to start lopping heads. With whom do I start?

[tiamat63]

 

I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.

 

There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.

 

Yeah, or the talent just isn't there and when it finally is - they are promptly injured.

[JAFBF]

Wow.

 

So you all think we come out ready play each and every game - color me mistaken

[Clevfan4life]

If our front 7 is the problem, why would we trade any our best players for an unproven rookie?

 

because in a revamp they're the only ones that are gonna get you something.

[Clevfan4life]

 

 

Wow... how long would it take me to find posts within the last week about our showing against Indy?

 

Today I saw Poa and Kitchen in there side by side way too many times. That's a new level of decimation in my book. Add that the only decent blows the D got all game were halftime and the late second QTR "flag-a-thon drive", and safe to say they wore down some.

 

It's knee-jerk...

 

wow one game, and remember we did let Indy score 25 points..so it wasn't a complete shut down. This run problem has been going on all year, c'mon you know that we've been over this before.

[Clevfan4life]

Yes. Lets stay shitty on run defense and defense in general because its not a fucking cleveland thing to have a bad ass DL like Suh.

 

I'd have Suh for reasonable money...not 20m. That's absurd. 7-8m fine, not 20.

[Clevfan4life]

 

In other words Haden's hit will rise at a much slower percentage rate than the cap? Isn't that a good thing?

 

 

Shopping players is a fire sale...

 

 

 

No, a fire sale is if you let JT go for a pack of ciggarrettes and a 4th round pick..that's not what I was advocating and you know it.

 

[Clevfan4life]

strategic rebuild is in order in my mind. The defensive scheme needs tweaked/changed and in my mind most of the front 7 has vastly underperformed basic defensive functions this year. They've had some games where they were good, but in some of those games our offense was producing and forced the opposing offense to get away from the run. Had every team this year stuck with the run we might be sitting at 2 wins. That's for real. Credit our early offensive production otherwise we would have been talking draft by week 6. IF it wren't for our secondary..say if our secondary was only mediocre, this would have been an historically bad defense. No question in my mind. Early in the year teams had to start throwing early otherwise they would have kept our defense on the field way too much for most of the season. I'm glad as hell now we gave Haden what he wanted.

[hoorta]

I quit watching in the 2nd after the commercials and flags, it was just too much.

 

Did you play with your Johnny blow up doll?

 

I highly disagree with that statement. Thomas is over rated.

 

Can't believe the stupidity of that one.....

 

 

 

I'll make the case that while Thomas may not be quite "overrated", he's getting close. Now is the time to shop him to a team that needs a LT. We're starting to see his decline but maybe some other team can be persuaded to give up something we desperately need. I don't "want" to give up JT, but we should see what the interest is.

 

 

Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.

 

Kruger has elevated his game quite a bit this season. Haden, until him being hurt today and one TD given up to HIlton, has had one of the better 5-6 game stretches in the NFL.

 

You fucking people have to be joking about trading these two.

 

AJ Green shut down again.

 

Said last week when your QB is getting Sacked by a 3 Man rush you've got more than QB issues.

 

Team never showed up today, D or O.

 

 

There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.

 

Knee jerk reaction much?

 

 

I'd have Suh for reasonable money...not 20m. That's absurd. 7-8m fine, not 20.

 

Suh will not be had for reasonable money.

[Clevfan4life]

 

 

 

Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.

 

 

 

 

Suh will not be had for reasonable money.

 

1) Didn't say he was the problem, but looking at people on the team with trade value..he's one of the top. "IF" we were to trade him...now would be the time. He's peaked. He'll maintain for another year "maybe" two....but by then we'll get nothing for him .

 

2) completely agree, which is why I don't want him. Was just saying, I'd have him for reasonable money..maybe even reasonable +. But 20m, if that figure is correct that he's looking for, is joker money. I'm not even sure Watt is worth 20m. 20m is like our entire front line right now.

[Manzier]

 

I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.

 

There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.

Indicates you think they are playing poorly because "they expect" to win. Then says "they" need to go....so who is "they" and how do you know we're playing poorly because we "expect" to win?

 

Wow.

 

So you all think we come out ready play each and every game - color me mistaken

No, I dont. But I also dont think it's because no ones trying or we need to cut people. Looks like injuries, play execution and a revolving door of players might be a more LIKELY reason.

 

So, who do we cut???? or get rid of??? and if you say ask the coaches again, Ill tell you they've already decided and this is the team///

[Clevfan4life]

.

 

So, who do we cut???? or get rid of??? and if you say ask the coaches again, Ill tell you they've already decided and this is the team///

 

I agree the coaches can't go anywhere if for the only reason that if they are let go I think we seriously risk losing the Browns. Best case nobody wants to coach for us and all we get is D3 guys auditioning for a chance to go back to d1 or d2. It will be that bad.

 

For me I can't say right now who we cut or trade, cause I don't know what we could potentially get in return. I only mentioned guys like Kruger and Bryant because they're really the only guys on the front seven who might have some trade value. Who knows. We have to retool the scheme and personnel...whoever doesn't fit or who's contract is running up etc, etc...is who goes.

[JAFBF]

@hoorta - knee jerk would be saying I enjoyed my Sundays when there were no Browns and I didn't watch the NFL and that I'd be going back to that.

This is pissed at the continued poor efforts we continue to see in games they should be ready for.

 

 

@Manzier - "they" are the players that take plays off and may have (Locker room) attitude problems that we don't see, but other players/Coaches do.

Injuries? Sure to an extent, but we normally rotate players throughout the game, so the revolving door issue shouldn't be that much of a factor - in fact I think we had one of our better games with a lot of subs in.

 

 

 

The short of it at this point is the Season's over.

 

Here on out is evaluation mode.

 

Tate was cut earlier for apparent attitude issues and the fact we have a pretty full stable of RB's - other positions are a bit short handed, so they may have held on to some that would otherwise be gone.

 

Nothing is going to happen immediately, but I fully expect to see quite a few trades / cuts this up coming Off Season.

This may well give an indication of inherent problems.

[Clevfan4life]

Gordon's complete trade bait imo. I'm done seeing that cunt loaf around and only try real hard when the balls coming his way. I completely agree with JAFBF, some of these guys loafing around on both sides of the ball have to go.

[nickers]

This thread gets a big fat D for "Dumb"