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Trump admin possibly threatening government shutdown over border wall


jbluhm86

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Stuart

 

Yur right Woodley.

 

Americans can still can own guns, no federal controlled police state, FOX NEWS and right wing talk radio remain uncensored and intact.....among a few of the things Obama didn't get done.

 

Yeah, those were sure going to happen. :lol::lol:

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By the way I still don't give a rat's ass about a government shutdown. All the hand-wringing and boo hoo hoo is a bunch of shit. No matter who are the administration might be if you can't get by on one and a half percent less, and that's just the increase, fuck you. Just do it.

 

But don't worry the MSM and some of the guys here will now shift the blame to the party in power instead of the party out of power as they did the last 8 years.

 

WSS

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it's true - because emotional manipulation gets them closer to getting what they want.

 

facts do NOT matter, honesty does NOT matter. There is no principle involved, they flip

like mexican dancing beans.

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It is the democrats who have been threatening to shutdown the government yet if it happens it is the republicans who always get the blame. Always.

 

Exactly my point.

 

WSS

 

Sorry fellas, but i'm afraid that is just nonsense.

 

When the GOP has a majority in both houses of Congress - 238 out of 435 House seats and 52 out of 100 Senate seats - AND also have the Presidency as well, then its a bit of a stretch to place the blame solely on the Democrats. The GOP theoretically has enough votes in both houses to pass any bill which supports their agenda and their man is in the Oval Office to sign it - all of which could be accomplished while completely bypassing the Democrats in the process.

 

But, the fact of the matter is, Trump's insistence on including a taxpayer funded border wall in the budget bill - which goes against his campaign promise of Mexico paying for it "100%" - is the primary roadblock in this discussion, and he would be the one who would bear the lion's share of the responsibility if the government did shut down. Republicans and Democrats had been in negotiations for weeks working out a budget bill before Trump interjected his taxpayer funded border wall demand into the process. Even the GOP congressmen who support the idea for a border wall are against the US paying for it, and are probably hesitant to turn the government shutdown into another embarrassment like the health care repeal debacle, so they will be against it.

 

So, in short, when your party controls both the Congress and the Presidency, and still yet it still cannot perform their job well enough to prevent a government shutdown, then they would absolutely be responsible for it, not the minority party.

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That is true in the House but not the Senate. In the senate legislation needs at least 60 Senators to stop a filibuster and the republicans fall short and the democrats are able to filibuster any legislation.

 

The bottom line though and WSS and I are right on this if past history is an indicator the republicans will get blamed for a government shutdown regardless.

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Spare me the bullshit j b. If and when this budget is released and the democrats scream and cry, and you are fully aware Chuck Schumer will try to block every and anything, then it will be their own fault. But the republicans will be blamed. Raising the debt limit wasn't any good for the economy but they did it every time. And the last time we shut down the economy people Hyperventilated over nothing.

I'm assuming they will take this silly wall out of things And replace it with something akin to more border security. Even if they didn't and it passed with the wall intact I would imagine the economy should still sky rocket. Which Would-be good right?

 

WSS

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That is true in the House but not the Senate. In the senate legislation needs at least 60 Senators to stop a filibuster and the republicans fall short and the democrats are able to filibuster any legislation.

 

The bottom line though and WSS and I are right on this if past history is an indicator the republicans will get blamed for a government shutdown regardless.

You would be correct, except that the Senate GOP still have the ability to exercise the nuclear option, in which case, it would just take a simple 51 person majority to pass a budget bill, bypassing a Democratic filibuster; you can thank the stupidity and short-sightedness of Harry Reid for that.

 

And, since they used it in the confirmation hearings of Neil Gorsuch, the Senate GOP have established the precedent that they are willing to use the nuclear option to accomplish their political agenda and bypass any potential Democratic resistance to do it; so, a failure to pass a budget bill with enough GOP votes to cover it would rightly be blamed on the Republicans.

 

Spare me the bullshit j b. If and when this budget is released and the democrats scream and cry, and you are fully aware Chuck Schumer will try to block every and anything, then it will be their own fault. But the republicans will be blamed...

As mentioned in the article I posted earlier, the Republicans and the Democrats in Congress were already deep in negotiations over the budget before Trump injected his demand for US taxpayer-funded border wall into mix, so to say that Chuck Schumer would try to block every and anything is a bit premature. Although they wouldn't get the majority of the blame, a government shutdown would still negatively impact the voter support for Democrats in Congress as well, so Schumer has every reason to try to work with the GOP in Congress on a bipartisan budget bill.

 

The Republicans would receive most of the blame for a shutdown because they are the current party in power in both the legislative and executive branches, and technically don't have to include the Democrats in the budget negotiations to pass one. That is why they would receive blame over the Democrats.

...Raising the debt limit wasn't any good for the economy but they did it every time. And the last time we shut down the economy people Hyperventilated over nothing...

If we can agree that it wasn't good for the economy when Congress raised the debt ceiling under a Democratic presidency and split congress, then why would making a debt ceiling raise under a Republican majority government make it any less worse? It would be a much easier case to make against the Democrats if the Republicans managed to find the funding for a border wall under the existing debt ceiling parameters and they still protested it, but the fact is, in this case, the Republicans would have to increase the debt ceiling to cover it, and that is where the majority of resistance to the wall in the GOP's own ranks is coming from. The GOP's stated platform of reducing government spending - coupled with Trump's idiotic campaign promise of making Mexico pay 100% of the border wall's cost - is what is fueling the dissent within the GOP's own ranks, never mind the Democrats.

 

As for the 2013 government shutdown being much ado about nothing, I disagree. The negative effects of the shutdown extended just beyond the economic costs - which were around $24 billion in just 16 days - under a much less polarized Congress and Presidency than we have now, if you can believe it.

 

...I'm assuming they will take this silly wall out of things And replace it with something akin to more border security. Even if they didn't and it passed with the wall intact I would imagine the economy should still sky rocket. Which Would-be good right?

 

WSS

That appears to be the case, so it's looking like cooler heads from both sides of the isle are working for the moment. As for the economic impact, I would say that's debatable, but without it actually happening, who's to say whether it would make a positive economic impact or not.

 

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Frankly I don't think the wall was ever that important, kind of like your buddys promise to close gitmo and bring all those scumbags to Chuck schumers district.

But I do think that's part of deal making.

Tell them OK we won't build the wall if you give me almost that much money for more immigration security. Works better across-the-board

;)

WSS

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I like the permanence of building a wall. If we don't get a wall built the next liberal president and congress will just go back to open borders again. The wall will live on after Trump's presidency no matter who is in office next.

The next liberal president will have torn down anyway .

WSS

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