Biggest Areas of Concern

[Mr. Make-Believe]

 

1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that

 

 

I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive. Yeah, he's spent money on some good players (finally).

 

But the second-lowest payroll in the NFL is undeniably a point in Mud's favour. I certainly wouldn't call it an "open wallet" when there are 30 teams out-spending you.

[syd]

 

 

I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive. Yeah, he's spent money on some good players (finally).

 

But the second-lowest payroll in the NFL is undeniably a point in Mud's favour. I certainly wouldn't call it an "open wallet" when there are 30 teams out-spending you.

 

I mean ya I agree with that statement my point was that we are looking towards the future and may very well be putting are selves in a position to spend wisely and be successful in the future also over spending in the f.a market usually spells doom

[syd]

also let's play this little game lets just say that are first round picks this year and next pan out,they are going to have to be paid at some point

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

 

I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive. Yeah, he's spent money on some good players (finally).

 

But the second-lowest payroll in the NFL is undeniably a point in Mud's favour. I certainly wouldn't call it an "open wallet" when there are 30 teams out-spending you.

Quantity != quality

[Mudfly]

 

1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that

Well, I whole heartedly disagree......lets look at this "right way", that you speak of.....

 

1) Collins.....yes, he's a good player and Im happy to have signed him. BUT, we traded a 3rd to get this guy for 8 games, so it's not as if they just went out and signed a guy....they paid a lot, then HAD to secure him, less they have egg on their face....

 

2) the 2 o line men we signed?.....definitely not cheap.....so, lets evaluate those 2 decisions.....

 

Tretter....our new "starting" center.....have you studied this guy?.....he's getting 5m a year, plus......are you aware that he's started only10 games in his entire 4 year career?....are you aware he missed his entire rookie season injured.....missed 8 games his sophmore season......road the bench his 3rd year(started 3 games as an injury replacement)....then, year 4, finally started a few, only to get hurt and miss another 9 games?.......so, he has basically missed the better part of 3 out of 4 years in the league, with multiple injuries.....and has never "earned" a starting job?.....and we have signed him for $5m and expect him to be our saviour at center?.....a ridiculous assumption if yer asking me........

 

Kevin Zeitler.....Ok, this guy is good and happy to have him on my team.....BUT, after watching 2 years of laughable OL play at CENTER and RIGHT TACKLE, my question is "why is right guard the position we sign a big dollar guy for?"......I know Greco has an injury to recover from, but seriously question the priorities of our FO, when they are signing talent to replace some of our decent talent, whilst ignoring positions we are desperate to fill.....

 

So....in a nutshell.....I dont see smart money being spent....I see guys like Britt, Taylor, Tretter, Davis....all WAY overpaid and not really guys who will elevate this team.....at all......and one good OL signing that adds depth, but does not cure a serious issue.....and a linebacker that I love, but we paid twice for.......and, all this took 2 years and is way too little to make much difference.

 

I woulda done most of this shit last year(and more), then added more to the mix this year.....had we accomplished just a few key signings then, we could be so much further ahead than we are.....and, in re to value, these guys aren't really good signings....

 

Tour and Couch gave me some good feedback, which I understand and accept to a degree, but I stand behind my comments that most of these guys are second and third tier players and being paid like they've accomplished much more than they really have...

[syd]

Well, I whole heartedly disagree......lets look at this "right way", that you speak of.....

 

1) Collins.....yes, he's a good player and Im happy to have signed him. BUT, we traded a 3rd to get this guy for 8 games, so it's not as if they just went out and signed a guy....they paid a lot, then HAD to secure him, less they have egg on their face....

 

2) the 2 o line men we signed?.....definitely not cheap.....so, lets evaluate those 2 decisions.....

 

Tretter....our new "starting" center.....have you studied this guy?.....he's getting 5m a year, plus......are you aware that he's started only10 games in his entire 4 year career?....are you aware he missed his entire rookie season injured.....missed 8 games his sophmore season......road the bench his 3rd year(started 3 games as an injury replacement)....then, year 4, finally started a few, only to get hurt and miss another 9 games?.......so, he has basically missed the better part of 3 out of 4 years in the league, with multiple injuries.....and has never "earned" a starting job?.....and we have signed him for $5m and expect him to be our saviour at center?.....a ridiculous assumption if yer asking me........

 

Kevin Zeitler.....Ok, this guy is good and happy to have him on my team.....BUT, after watching 2 years of laughable OL play at CENTER and RIGHT TACKLE, my question is "why is right guard the position we sign a big dollar guy for?"......I know Greco has an injury to recover from, but seriously question the priorities of our FO, when they are signing talent to replace some of our decent talent, whilst ignoring positions we are desperate to fill.....

 

So....in a nutshell.....I dont see smart money being spent....I see guys like Britt, Taylor, Tretter, Davis....all WAY overpaid and not really guys who will elevate this team.....at all......and one good OL signing that adds depth, but does not cure a serious issue.....and a linebacker that I love, but we paid twice for.......and, all this took 2 years and is way too little to make much difference.

 

I woulda done most of this shit last year(and more), then added more to the mix this year.....had we accomplished just a few key signings then, we could be so much further ahead than we are.....and, in re to value, these guys aren't really good signings....

 

Tour and Couch gave me some good feedback, which I understand and accept to a degree, but I stand behind my comments that most of these guys are second and third tier players and being paid like they've accomplished much more than they really have...

 

​Collins would have wanted huge money regardless who he played for and we just gave up a comp pick for him ,money not well spent ?

zeitler and Greco damn good depth if you ask me also still well under the cap

Tretter hopefully he left his injuries behind but yes I agree that is a concern

 

also it's not like f.a's are knocking down are door to play here ,we have to overpay,but hey maybe you liked that andre rison signing

[calfoxwc]

1) Collins.....yes, he's a good player and Im happy to have signed him. BUT, we traded a 3rd to get this guy for 8 games, so it's not as if they just went out and signed a guy....they paid a lot, then HAD to secure him, less they have egg on their face....Eyore Mud

*************************************************************

enough already. I believe if the Browns HADN'T signed Collins, and he signed elsewhere, you would be

po'd that the Browns don't care about winning, wouldn't pay up for good talent, etc...etc...etc.

 

it's one thing to be disappointed, as in, most of us obviously have been. But the hell bent negative nonsense

is baloney. The history, sure. Bad/wrong coaches, sure. But the bitching is an end to itself it seems....

like "look at me, by dang, I'm freaking out because the Browns still haven't gotten to the superbowl"

 

The extremely positive direction the Browns are taking now...is being totally ignored out of spite.

 

The dismal history isn't going to change, dammit, why bring it up just because you can? I don't get it.

The Browns' losing seasons in the past, I'm pretty sure, are NOBODY'S FAULT on this board.

Therefore, it would seem that bitching should be sent to the Browns'... if you can find yourself a

time machine that would take you back...

[Mudfly]

enough already. I believe if the Browns HADN'T signed Collins, and he signed elsewhere, you would be

po'd that the Browns don't care about winning, wouldn't pay up for good talent, etc...etc...etc.

 

I said....many many times....that Im glad they signed him.....and, yes, I woulda bitched if they hadnt......read what I was replying to for context....

 

it's one thing to be disappointed, as in, most of us obviously have been. But the hell bent negative nonsense

is baloney.

 

Im not disappointed...Im pissed.....YOU are disappointed because you have unrealistic expectations and go on and on about great things that arent real...

 

The history, sure. Bad/wrong coaches, sure. But the bitching is an end to itself it seems....

like "look at me, by dang, I'm freaking out because the Browns still haven't gotten to the superbowl"

 

Superbowl??!!??......you realize we won only one game....right?......Im pissed cause my team is the worst it's EVER been.....open your eyes. If it doesnt bother you to lose 15 outta 16, then thats your problem......and if you think thats an extremely positive direction, then you're crazy...

 

The extremely positive direction the Browns are taking now...is being totally ignored out of spite.

 

I dont see anything that is extremely positive......hahahaha.....extremely.....hAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHAHAHAHA

 

The dismal history isn't going to change, dammit, why bring it up just because you can?

 

I know it's not gonna change...hence - Im pissed.....and in re to the history....Im not bringing it up. 1) Im replying to others 2) Im talking about THIS year.....can you read?

 

I don't get it.

 

Clearly.....

 

The Browns' losing seasons in the past, I'm pretty sure, are NOBODY'S FAULT on this board.

 

Correct....I know it/s not my fault.....so why ya bitching at me?.......and the "losing seasons" are NOT in the past....the worst ever losing season just happened....2016.....

 

Therefore, it would seem that bitching should be sent to the Browns'... if you can find yourself a

time machine that would take you back...

 

Im talking Browns Cal.....whether you like my view or not.....you offer some of the most ridiculous crap here. At least there's is basis for what I say and I spell it out with facts....while Im forced to read your baseless posts on how GREAT the last 2 drafts were,.... how great we were gonna be last year.....how we no longer draft problems....blah blah blah....when the truth is right there for all to see.......

 

Last season you told me the same things....told me to chill and watch this team gel.....told me Hue would make this team 4 wins better, just because he's Hue....etc etc etc.....EVERYTHING you said was wrong.....and everything I said wasnt......it's not spite, it's what I see.....

 

Ima guess you've missed every positive point Ive made(not too many great things to talk about, so they're easy to miss)......

[Mudfly]

 

 

 

also it's not like f.a's are knocking down are door to play here ,we have to overpay,but hey maybe you liked that andre rison signing

So....you agree they are over paid.....which was my point ....so why argue?

 

Thanks

[gumby73]

2) the 2 o line men we signed?.....definitely not cheap.....so, lets evaluate those 2 decisions.....

 

Tretter....our new "starting" center.....have you studied this guy?.....he's getting 5m a year, plus......are you aware that he's started only10 games in his entire 4 year career?....are you aware he missed his entire rookie season injured.....missed 8 games his sophmore season......road the bench his 3rd year(started 3 games as an injury replacement)....then, year 4, finally started a few, only to get hurt and miss another 9 games?.......so, he has basically missed the better part of 3 out of 4 years in the league, with multiple injuries.....and has never "earned" a starting job?.....and we have signed him for $5m and expect him to be our saviour at center?.....a ridiculous assumption if yer asking me........

 

Kevin Zeitler.....Ok, this guy is good and happy to have him on my team.....BUT, after watching 2 years of laughable OL play at CENTER and RIGHT TACKLE, my question is "why is right guard the position we sign a big dollar guy for?"......I know Greco has an injury to recover from, but seriously question the priorities of our FO, when they are signing talent to replace some of our decent talent, whilst ignoring positions we are desperate to fill.....

Good post Mud..Yes there is some doubt on Tretter but most will evaluate on "when healthy". No matter how hard we squint,Cam Irving failed his live HueJax 1 yr. evaluation. After Tretter, they went after Marcus Martin a FA from 9'ers. Martin is a young 23 year old from USC that plays Center & LG. Reiter will have his hands full with Martin to back-up Tretter..Irving is to back-up S. Coleman at RT? I don't see that one either with drafted rookie R.Johnson,Fabiano or McCants..maybe till or if Greco returns from PuP. Irving is squarely sitting on the bubble.. some deep pockets for some OL depth..no doubt..but a good competitive OL position battle at each position of the Oline is a damn good thing to have after what we watched last season.66 sacks..If we know Gregg Williams at camp? He's coming right at them

[nickers]

I just can't understand Why Cam is still on the roster... He's pure dog shit.

[calfoxwc]

Im not disappointed...Im pissed.....YOU are disappointed because you have unrealistic expectations and go on and on about great things that arent real... Mudly

*******************************************

Well, you may as well scratch your mad mud place and get glad. Whining isn't going to help anything,

so why dwell on the negatives? Bitch, bitch, bitch fest contest.

 

And no, I never said they were going to be great - I just saw some talent coming in that was going to help make

for a solid locker room, and eventually a winning team. I'm not disappointed at all - where we are now, is far and away

superior to where we used to be.

 

There were a lot of reasons for the record last year. But to say it's the worst team ever is bs. I remember Browns teams

when they got hammered by a huge margin in points, couldn't compete, got run over.

 

Last year, sure, the Browns had major weaknesses - you can only upgrade the roster a bit in two drafts. What I see,

is a complete excellent upgrade in their drafting criteria. That has been the problem with the Browns - stupid picks =

great athlete - poor character/poor work ethic/poor attitude/poor addition to the locker room and community...

 

what you end up with, is a mess that doesn't compete against teams that draft consistently and smartly.

 

The new drafting/signing criteria is going to build the Browns to be competitive year after year. The few times the Browns had

a winning season, they fell apart in the years afterwards.

 

The old verse about not building on weak and shifting sands? Well, the Browns had, for years. Now, they have a solid

foundation. And you can shove the old "you said the Browns were going to be great last year and ...." that's baloney.

 

Turnaround in talent/drafting criteria = future winning/very competitive team. This defense is going to be exciting to watch.

Qb/WR makes it tough to predict great things yet from the offense consistently, but we'll see.

 

It's a long trail. You go ahead and sit down in some poison ivy and cry croc tears and whine, I"m going to keep right on

hiking the right trail, knowing I'm eventually going to find a nice creek, or a pond, rescue, a gold mine...

 

and all you got is scratch. Have a nice day for a change, Mudly.

[Tour2ma]

Biggest area of concern is that the team has no playmakers. Crowell is as close as we get.

 

I also hate how they handled the Pryor contract. There was room for him on this team even after Britt was signed (which is an argument that sounds like sarcasm to me, but it's one that's been made way too often) and little justification in not making the play. His contract was cheap, short-term and the Browns have both the money and the need. Pryor and Schwartz seemed like decisions that put pride ahead of team.

 

Playmakers = RBs + WRs... both can be added at any time via the draft or FA. We are building foundations... front to back and inside out... just like real teams do.

 

Pryor's contract ended up being cheap and short-term. We offered more over a longer period. He declined and wanted to shop. Pryor fucked up; we did not. We wanted a contract that locked him into service after further investment in his development, should he develop. Guess what, assuming he does develop in WSH we can bid for him again if we so desire.

 

The same desire to shop was true of Schwartz. In both cases we gauged their value better than they did. By standing by our evaluations we have set a tone for all future negotiations. Plus in our deals with Zeitler and Collins we have shown that we are willing to pay top dollar when we think the player is worth it.

 

I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive. Yeah, he's spent money on some good players (finally).

 

But the second-lowest payroll in the NFL is undeniably a point in Mud's favour. I certainly wouldn't call it an "open wallet" when there are 30 teams out-spending you.

 

So we needed to spend willy-nilly just to simply elevate our payroll's standing? /s

 

We stripped down to our shorts and are now filling our closet. It'll take time. As pointed out a couple times above money has to be held in reserve for long-term deals for our high draft picks if and when they show their worthiness of the picks we spent on them.

 

Rebuilding is a process... one that will likely keep us in the bottom ten of payrolls for two or three more seasons, but the vector is angled up and when it takes off we will leapfrog a lot of teams in a hurry. Payroll is a "lagging indicator".

[The Gipper]

You guys must really be bored. Seriously, talk about mental masturbation? There is no need to analyse whether or not it is time to be patient and stay the course. There is no need to talk about whether Jimmy spends enough money, or if Money Ball is going to work.

 

The Browns don't have a Quarterback....only hopes that some shit falls out of the sky and saves us. Not highly probable.

Well, they have drafted QBs in rounds 3 and 2 the last year. It remains to be seen if any of these QBs can turn out to be players. You make all your prejudgments based on no evidence...other than your opinion.

The Browns don't have a single WR that can strech the field and threaten opposing defenses.

Same here...all young players.....that you prejudge based on your opinion only.

The Browns have no strength at TE

Same here....I think they could actually have a hell of a good TE combo in DeValve and Njoku. Again...your opinions are not fact. In some cases they are in fact effluvia.

The Browns are thin at RB with only one decent player.

Again, Possibly a wrong opinion. Crowell and Duke can be a very productive tandem, with Atkinson a decent third option.

 

Seriously, not being argumentative. how in the fuck can any of you believe this is a good direction, or that it is progress?

The operative term here is "believe". You DON't want to believe...you in fact want everything to go in a bad direction...ergo you believe that it is going in that direction. That is the definition of prejudice.

 

Does it not dawn on you that the Browns have no playmakers on either side of the ball? Hey, what do I know, maybe we will block our way o touchdowns.

It dawns on me that perhaps we have issues with our playmakers. But it also dawns on me that there is no resolution either way.

I will give these "playmakers" the opportunity to fail...and to prove you right. But with that opportunity comes the potential for success. So I wait and see. You already make up your mind based on what you want to happen.

[Mudfly]

Im not disappointed...Im pissed.....YOU are disappointed because you have unrealistic expectations and go on and on about great things that arent real... Mudly

*******************************************

Well, you may as well scratch your mad mud place and get glad. Whining isn't going to help anything,

so why dwell on the negatives? Bitch, bitch, bitch fest contest.

 

 

Ill "try" to make it simple for you Cal....though the you are adept at missing(ignoring) the obvious,,,

 

Unlike you, I actually come here to talk "football"....pro & con.....not politics and not fluffy "Browns are gonna be great" stuff...

 

We have sucked for 2 decades now.....so....we have a right to be a bit worn down by it.....How many people get shit upon, annually, and still profess their unrelenting love for the one doing the shitting?

 

The Browns NEED to improve and the only way to get there, is to FOCUS ON THE WEAKNESSES, identify whats wrong....then correct it.....thats me.....

 

You can blather on and on, all you want, about what you "think" will happen....I choose to focus on what HAS happened and what I see happening now....and, most importantly, what and where we need to improve......while you prefer to focus on the one or 2 things that are positive and stick your head in the sand about the 10 things that aren't.....

 

Interesting-quality football talk includes point and counter point......I have no interest in holding hands and having a kumbayya discussion about the Browns.....I prefer to slice and dice and then respond to realistic articulate thoughts......thats called a "discussion".....not whining.....

 

How about considering 2 things?......

 

1) offer some actual football content, instead of stepping away from your political haggling just long enough to tell me what to say...whilst not participating in any football analysis......

 

2) stop "whining" that you dont like my opinion.....and offer a valid factual counterpoint instead.....and(unlike you) I will open my mind and consider another point of view....which Ive done many many times here.....

 

Nothing worse than coming on here just to say someones opinion is wrong, while not offering any "quality" points to establish why....

 

And...my final point......this thread is titled biggest areas of concern....so, should I list all the things I love about this team....or say what concerns me....???

[Mr. Make-Believe]

 

Playmakers = RBs + WRs... both can be added at any time via the draft or FA. We are building foundations... front to back and inside out... just like real teams do.

 

Foundations (O-Line, D-Line)... both can be added at any time via the draft or FA.

 

QB, WR, RB? These are just as much "foundational" players as any other. In some cases more so. Focusing on one area and ignoring another (or simply failing at building another) regardless of what side you feel is more important, is a strategy that will always fail.

 

 

Pryor's contract ended up being cheap and short-term. We offered more over a longer period. He declined and wanted to shop. Pryor fucked up; we did not. We wanted a contract that locked him into service after further investment in his development, should he develop. Guess what, assuming he does develop in WSH we can bid for him again if we so desire.

 

The same desire to shop was true of Schwartz. In both cases we gauged their value better than they did. By standing by our evaluations we have set a tone for all future negotiations. Plus in our deals with Zeitler and Collins we have shown that we are willing to pay top dollar when we think the player is worth it.

 

What is "setting the tone" for future negotiations? Hardball? LOL There are VERY few teams who have that luxury and the Browns are FAR from being one of them.

 

Pryor fucked up... And so did the Browns. Pryor got less money. The Browns lost a playmaker. Schwartz fucked up... And so did the Browns. Schwartz got less money. And the Browns have had ??? at RT (although I admit to liking Coleman a hell of a lot and disappointed they let Pasztor walk as I believed him to be better than what he was given credit for). Neither party gained anything by playing these negotiations the way they did.

 

 

So we needed to spend willy-nilly just to simply elevate our payroll's standing? /s

 

We stripped down to our shorts and are now filling our closet. It'll take time. As pointed out a couple times above money has to be held in reserve for long-term deals for our high draft picks if and when they show their worthiness of the picks we spent on them.

 

Rebuilding is a process... one that will likely keep us in the bottom ten of payrolls for two or three more seasons, but the vector is angled up and when it takes off we will leapfrog a lot of teams in a hurry. Payroll is a "lagging indicator".

 

You're completely missing the point.

 

I don't mind the strategy of stripping it down and building it up with a consistent vision. I have praised them for doing such.

 

I do have a problem with calling that strategy an "open wallet". It's a mislabel and entirely disingenuous. We can laud the team for doing the things they are actually doing well without having to make up BS to support our position.

 

We don't have a QB (yet). Our WR corps is abysmal. Our management is silent on Josh Gordon and that's a travesty. And our secondary is ugly ass fuck. The team will go nowhere without those areas addressed.

But I'm not an "all negative" guy. Far from it. I like Jackson. I love the hire of Williams. I believe the Browns to have a "Top Ten" in both the defensive AND offensive lines this season and that should make a huge difference in how competitive they play on a consistent basis. I think Njoku and Devalve are going to be a potent punch at TE. I was against making a big addition at RB, because I like Duke and love Crowell. DeShone Kizer in the second was a COUP and showed up the teams who were sacrificing big assets to draft QBs this season in the first round. Getting a second for taking on Osweiller was a trade I am unabashed support of. I am very excited to see the improvements for this season and I can't wait for next year's draft.

I'm not just an asshole who pisses on everything Browns. And I don't appreciate being treated as though that's the case. Especially from a cat like yourself who I have an incredible amount of respect for and whom I learn a lot about the sport from.

[Ghoolie]

Boo Hoo.....MMB doesn't want to be called negative. Dude, the fucking team has no players. There is nothing negative in saying this.

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Boo Hoo.....MMB doesn't want to be called negative. Dude, the fucking team has no players. There is nothing negative in saying this.

 

 

You have a schtick, Ghoolie. I don't.

 

You don't want to have a conversation. I do.

 

I think I have realistic expectations. Not a fucking fluffer. And not a god damn troll.

 

Cool if that's what you want to be. Shit isn't me.

[Ghoolie]

 

 

You have a schtick, Ghoolie. I don't.

 

You don't want to have a conversation. I do.

 

I think I have realistic expectations. Not a fucking fluffer. And not a god damn troll.

 

Cool if that's what you want to be. Shit isn't me.

Dude, shove your "schtick" up your ass. I have no fucking "schtick"

 

You absolutely ARE a fluffer. Not as big of one as player/coach cocksucker Flugel, but you are a fluffer.

 

You think you have realistic expectations? LMAO. Just what are they? That once again having the highest paid fatasses, the least important and talented players on the field are going to do what? Block us into the playoffs? Who the fuck is going to score points dude? Who? Ho the fuck do you improve your team when you have less skilled players, less point makers than you did at 1 - 19?

 

Please, share your fucking "reality" with me. I would love to hear more. You are pimping a bunch of fantasy that has nothing to do with football. All bullshit made up in your head. All echoes of what some Browns analyst or sportswriter told you to think.

 

The offensive line is not improved. There was not a god damned thing wrong with the 2016 OL. What part of reality doesn't sink through the heads of Browns fans like you?

 

NO FIVE MEN CAN BLOCK EIGHT OR NINE

 

Without a single threat on offense, opposing defenses will stack the line, overpower the line and once again in 2017 force the Browns offense into dump-and-dink plays. THe OL will be overwhelmed, the DL will play far too many plays. It will exhaust them and it will cause injuries from fatigue. Finally,,,,,,,,THE QB IS EVERYTHING. WIthout that, there is no hope, no emotion, no adrenaline on the field.

 

Hey, I know, you and Flugel put on your female cheerleader outfits and the Browns will pay you to give blowjobs at half time and assure this bag of shit team that if they just stick to it....."We'll get em next week.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Keep arguing against things I never said, Ghoolie. No schtick there at all. LOL

 

Did you not read the post you were criticizing?

 

You're a self-annointed troll. That's your "thing." It's not mine.

[calfoxwc]

1) offer some actual football content, instead of stepping away from your political haggling just long enough to tell me what to say...whilst not participating in any football analysis......

********************************************************************

I did, wet dirt boy....talked about changing their criteria for selecting new players for a long time. They drafted

terrific athletes in the past. Gilbert. Jm. Quinn. Robiesky, w. Green, Richardson...... but they didn't love the game...they didn't have the work ethic, weren't football smart. You can not build a team with athletic prima donnas who don't care...college draft picks who would rather drink or dope their way through their contracts than try to win games. Remember Ricky Williams...that trade to draft him? Same mistake. And, wet dirt boy, I NEVER talk politics here - I was one of the people who wanted a separate forum, you

foolish mudly. Pretty weak football talk. You Mad, Mud?

************************************************************************

2) stop "whining" that you dont like my opinion.....and offer a valid factual counterpoint instead.....and(unlike you) I will open my mind and consider another point of view....which Ive done many many times here.....

************************************************************************

Whining is constant bitching. I have only written a few posts recently about your depression non-football impressions.

"Oh, WOE IS ME, I'M SUCH A VICTIM OF MY LOSING TEAM" a thousand? times isn't football talk. I offered up reasons

to give the Browns A FREAKING BREAK - they changed their criteria on the draft and FA. And while I was an ardent fan

of Trubisky's... getting Kizer may end up being the qb steal of the entire draft. I see a HUGE difference in their approach to

building the Browns into a winner. You want to wet your pants about the past - let it go was my advice.

*************************************************************************

Nothing worse than coming on here just to say someones opinion is wrong, while not offering any "quality" points to establish why....

*************************************************************************

The biggest problem with the Browns is the kind of players they have drafted over the years. Just stupid. With the new

very SMART criteria for drafting players - they would never have drafted the losers that were added to the team in the past.

Gilbert? HELL NO. He does not fit. I can go on and on about it, but you can't build a football team on athletically talented

losers - weak and shifting sands.

***************************************************************************

And...my final pouty-pouty......this thread is titled biggest areas of concern....so, should I list all the things I love about this team....or say what concerns me....??? Stick in the Mud

*****************************************************

Yes, your biggest area of concern is the past losing and how you are such a poor victim for so long.

Big football talk nothing. I've talked about changing the type of players added for a long time. Even if a player

is good - what does it matter if he doesn't care to play in the snow? Wants to play close to home and his entourage'?

Only wants to play for a playoff team? Draft Eli Manning, but he openly refuses to play for your team?

Come on. Draft mistakes have left this team in mediocrity for years. You are so busy sitting in the mud crying ...

for so long, you refuse to see the nice sidewalk to finally getting the Browns on a long term competitive

winning trek.

The Browns started playing some smart football last year. Major weaknesses - Oline - FIXED. Defensive backfield -

FIXED. (I think). Defensive line rotation - FIXED. Lockerroom - FIXED. Depth all over the roster - FIXED...? Weakness

at TE - FIXED. Restrictions on talent level - scheme versatility on both sides of the ball - ? fixed???

Questions are at qb and wr.

 

"Oh, look at me, I'm so pitifully worn down over the miserable past that I cry great big crocodile tearsies" isn't talking football

Mudly. Every single Browns fan KNOWS about the miserable mediocrity the Browns were mired in for years.

Last couple of years, the new players are held to a far higher standard - love for the game and character, work ethic, etc

plays the primary type of player they want on the Browns.

 

Guys like Dieken, Kosar, Sipe, Clay, the list is long- those guys LOVED football. We finally have guys who love football

being brought into the fold and all you wanna do is complain about the past. That was just my advice - look at the changes

in the WAY this team is being built.

 

Or, you can continue to roll around in the poison ivy and cry, and complain that you've had a terrible rash of burning and itching

for years.

 

Josh Cribbs talked about it in the past - some guys didn't care, some guys were prima donnas that had no self-discipline,

didn't care about winning, etc. You know HE was one of the ones who did. That is why the Browns couldn't get off the ground.

 

and that the Browns now have a fresh, new excellent manner they are operating in...especially the draft... some of us

have wanted that for a long time. Stop wallowing in the mudsies long enough to man up and notice how the

2017 Browns play the game this coming season. They will be playing like a bunch of guys who mean business - kicking

ass on the field, and working hugely to be winners. That is what I look forward to, Mudly.

 

TIP OF THE DAY: "You can't look forward to anything in the past"

[Mudfly]

 

You want to wet your pants about the past - let it go was my advice.

 

The biggest problem with the Browns is the kind of players they have drafted over the years. - they would never have drafted the losers that were added to the team in the past.

Gilbert? HELL NO. He does not fit. I can go on and on about it

 

Yes, your biggest area of concern is the past losing and how you are such a poor victim for so long.

********************************************************************************************************************

Im not the one talking about the past......you are......^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

********************************************************************************************************************

 

Big football talk nothing. I've talked about changing the type of players added for a long time. Even if a player

is good - what does it matter if he doesn't care to play in the snow? Wants to play close to home and his entourage'?

Only wants to play for a playoff team? Draft Eli Manning, but he openly refuses to play for your team?

***********************************************************************************************************************

None of this ^^^^^^^^ has anything to do with the Browns......fiction......

***********************************************************************************************************************

 

Come on. Draft mistakes have left this team in mediocrity for years.

***********************************************************************************************************************

Still blathering on about the past, are we?

***********************************************************************************************************************

 

You are so busy sitting in the mud crying ...

for so long, you refuse to see the nice sidewalk to finally getting the Browns on a long term competitive

winning trek.

***********************************************************************************************************************

Or you refuse to see the positives I have posted......and completely miss many of the points Ive tried to make......and still refuse to accept there are areas we need to improve on....which is where my focus is........

***********************************************************************************************************************

 

The Browns started playing some smart football last year. Major weaknesses - Oline - FIXED. Defensive backfield -

FIXED. (I think). Defensive line rotation - FIXED. Lockerroom - FIXED. Depth all over the roster - FIXED...? Weakness

at TE - FIXED. Restrictions on talent level - scheme versatility on both sides of the ball - ? fixed???

*************************************************************************************************************************

This ^^^^^^^^^ is the most ridiculous thing Ive read here....and a big part of what I bitch about.....not so much the "Browns" , as the silly stupid things you say about them.....O line fixed????.......DB fixed????(worst part of this team are the DB's).......Schemes on both sides of the ball?.....what schemes?.....Hues offense is one of the worst we've had in years........

 

*************************************************************************************************************************

 

Questions are at qb and wr.

*************************************************************************************************************************

And less than a year ago, I was hearing WR's fixed........you do realize we've actually gotten worse at WR, right?

**************************************************************************************************************************

 

The new players are held to a far higher standard - love for the game and character, work ethic, etc

plays the primary type of player they want on the Browns.

**************************************************************************************************************************

Couldnt disagree more.......we are drafting the same types of players and then justifying their shortcomings.......Hue plays em, while Pettine actually did hold them accountable and kept the schmucks on the bench.....Ask Gilbert or Bowe who kept em on the bench.....then ask Erving why he didnt sit?....or Brantley who gave him the chance.....or Payton why he's still playing.....or Peppers why his diluted test didnt matter......get yer head outta the sand....

****************************************************************************************************************************

 

Guys like Dieken, Kosar, Sipe, Clay, the list is long- those guys LOVED football. We finally have guys who love football

being brought into the fold and all you wanna do is complain about the past.

****************************************************************************************************************************

Cal....YOU are the one yakking about the past.....3 or 4 times in this post alone.......while I keep pointing to NOW......

****************************************************************************************************************************

 

That was just my advice - look at the changes

in the WAY this team is being built.

***************************************************************************************************************************

Again.....Im seeing a lot of the same type of players.....and keep giving you names......but all that sand is stuck in your ears and eyes....

****************************************************************************************************************************

 

Stop wallowing in the mudsies long enough to man up and notice how the

2017 Browns play the game this coming season. They will be playing like a bunch of guys who mean business - kicking

ass on the field, and working hugely to be winners. That is what I look forward to, Mudly.

******************************************************************************************************************************

You say this EVERY YEAR Calskies.....every.....single.....year............(including 1-16).....so I cant take it seriously....sorry

******************************************************************************************************************************

 

 

TIP OF THE DAY: "You can't look forward to anything in the past"

 

Then stop living in the past and bitching about Gilbert, Manziel, Richardsonc.......and stop day dreaming about the future.......today is where Im at.....

 

Heck.....very good chance that Coleman is our next first round bust.....(thats me looking ahead ).....chronic dropsies, chronic injuries and, now, maybe prison.....but, hey, he's an example of our great approach to 1st round draft choices......eh?

[calfoxwc]

I was just engaging you to show you that wallowing in your Browns fan self pity no workee. That's all.

Stooping to your low level of fandom to reach out to you and lift you up. But you are just too heavy, Mudly.

I'm no attitude weight-lifter, you have you help yourself a bit, and you don't want to.

 

Goshsies, you annoyed by me bringing up the past, to show the different in approach to the draft, etc?

Then take a walk on the wild side and look in the mirror.

 

Your pitiful victimhood sadness is just annoying and boring. But if that makes you happy, too bad for the rest of us who are excited to see the changes in how the Browns play.

 

They don't have to be in the superbowl for me to still be a Browns fan. I jokingly predict the

playoffs for the Browns every freaking year, proud to do it, and one of these years real soon, I will finally

be right. You got a problem with that? LOL

[Mudfly]

I was just engaging you to show you that wallowing in your Browns fan self pity no workee. That's all.

Stooping to your low level of fandom to reach out to you and lift you up. But you are just too heavy, Mudly.

I'm no attitude weight-lifter, you have you help yourself a bit, and you don't want to.

 

Goshsies, you annoyed by me bringing up the past, to show the different in approach to the draft, etc?

Then take a walk on the wild side and look in the mirror.

 

Your pitiful victimhood sadness is just annoying and boring. But if that makes you happy, too bad for the rest of us who are excited to see the changes in how the Browns play.

 

They don't have to be in the superbowl for me to still be a Browns fan. I jokingly predict the

playoffs for the Browns every freaking year, proud to do it, and one of these years real soon, I will finally

be right. You got a problem with that? LOL

Not too sure Ive called myself a victim....except to establish that I(and Browns fans in general) have every reason to bitch.....

 

We are the worst team over last 2 decades, yet have no right to be upset.....apparently....

 

Personally, I think it's weak to not fight back......strong fans demand better.....weak fans accept crap.....

 

Guess what...Im still a Browns fan....thats why Im here talking Browns every day....thats why I wont accept losing......and instead of taking it in the ass with a smile, Im fighting for my team to get better, as opposed to more of the same....

 

You keep doing what your doing....cause there's merit to blind love and fantasy.....and Ill keep doing what I do, cause there's merit in seeing short comings and fighting to fix them....

[wargograw]

You guys are both right in different ways.

[calfoxwc]

I'm righter. LOL

[Mudfly]

I'm righter. LOL

Ha....thats an understatement.....if ever.....

[Mudfly]

You guys are both right in different ways.

Exactly.....which is why we BOTH (all) should be able to present our views without being told to shut up.....

 

(At least those of us who try to do it tactfully.......w/o personal attacks, name calling, insults, etc.....).....

 

I wish some of those guys would shut up......

[domcucch1994]

My concern is not having Josh Gordon out there to elevate the play of Britt, Njoku, and Coleman..

All because he likes to smoke some weed... Dude went to rehab voluntarily in September..

 

Denied his reinstatement after 6 months of rehab and working out, all because of this dangerous substance, aka pot..

 

Sort of ridiculous if you ask me, but regardless, Higgins, Payton, Louis need to step up. They all need to step up.

 

I expect to see areas of concern in our WR corps, oline is going to take a bit to get it going, false starts and holdings will be a plenty.

 

I expect Kessler to play better, but is one hit away from holding a clipboard for the rest of his NFL existence,

 

and Kizer needs to sit and learn and study the speed, timing, and anticipation of NFL defenses.

 

I don't necessarily see one area of great success this season.. Maybe at the DL we added better players, but can they generate pressure as a group and not just one or two guys?

Can our secondary and linebackers slow down the likes of Antonio Brown, AJ Green, T.Y. Hilton, DeAndre Hopkins, Jordy Nelson, Alshon Jeffery, Delanie Walker, etc.?

I don't know.. I think we are going to need to put up 25+ a game to compete with at least 7 of these teams this season. That is going to be a tough task with Kessler/Osweiler at the helms..

[Ghoolie]

You guys are both right in different ways.

You voted for Obama and Hillary.