BitchTits Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Agreed....based on everything(and mostly what the coaches said)...I got the sense he was sitting for practice and disciplinary reasons....not necessarily his play in games. And he was benched "after" his best game cause coach said he slacked all week in practice..same kind of tough love that West got ha....only wish PFF allowed you to link.....but since its a pay sight, no can do...... Not sure why I even bother to pay, since I just lie and make shit up anyway....when will I learn..... Two questions 1. How did you see the article if it was a pay site? Had to be a member at some point? Just coincedentally happened to not be a member now that you use that as a source? 2. There are no other sites on the entire internet that have any rankings that back you up? With 5 min investigation I found 2 backing me. I bet with 20 to sift through all the fantasy crap, I could likely find 1-2 more, but you are unable to find any except from a pay site you apparently no longer have access to? Here is one with Watkins ranked #15- http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/story/24980304/offseason-extra-early-2015-wr-tiers-strategies Here is one with him ranked at #14- http://fantasy.usatoday.com/2015/02/2015-fantasy-football-rankings-top-50 Here is one with him at #24 - https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/04/09/2015-wide-receiver-rankings-pre-draft/ Here is one with him at #19 - http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/page/TMRranks150311/matthew-berry-offseason-2015-fantasy-football-rankings I am starting to think you were looking at fantasy rankings. I found these with him around the spot you claim with only 10 minutes worth of work. You can make snide comments, and say garbage like " Not sure why I even bother to pay, since I just lie and make shit up anyway....when will I learn...." To bad you just cannot admit you are wrong. Remember you are the one who started this. You are the one who challenged me to back up my points. You are the one who pushed this. Now you're mad that I found stuff to prove you wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitchTits Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Hopefully Gilbert will make huge strides this offseason and becomes a very good corner. I think he will. Him and JM both have lost respect of their teamates, and fans. I am sure that's a hard thing to deal with. I would fully expect him to be better prepared, and more importantly have a better attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Look....I dont know what your agenda is, but you should really give it a rest.....I cant explain myself any clearer and we aren't communicating...ok?,,,,but I will answer your questions....nicely..... Two questions 1. How did you see the article if it was a pay site? Its not an "article" is a player stat sight that sorts every stat imaginable and also score player by the game. I can see it because I have subscription to it. Had to be a member at some point? I AM A MEMBER. Just coincedentally happened to not be a member now that you use that as a source? I have no clue what you're implying or even mean by this. You've never met me....I come here ONLY to talk ball...never troll or go after others....yet you constantly question my integrity and imply that Im being dishonest or something....whats your gig?....go to PFF and look up "premium stats" and learn... 2. There are no other sites on the entire internet that have any rankings that back you up? Most other sights, like the ones you listed below, use PFF as their source. Most fantasy site do to. Pretty much the standard. With 5 min investigation I found 2 backing me. I bet with 20 to sift through all the fantasy crap, I could likely find 1-2 more, but you are unable to find any except from a pay site you apparently no longer have access to? I have access to it, but you cannot link to or copy their pages, which is how they protect the integrity of the "pay" site....otherwise, one guy pays then posts it all over and no one else wants to pay....see?.... I am starting to think you were looking at fantasy rankings. I found these with him around the spot you claim with only 10 minutes worth of work. You can make snide comments, and say garbage like " Not sure why I even bother to pay, since I just lie and make shit up anyway....when will I learn...." To bad you just cannot admit you are wrong. Remember you are the one who started this. You are the one who challenged me to back up my points. You are the one who pushed this. Now you're mad that I found stuff to prove you wrong....You're a Retard. Go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I don't like Gilbert. I doubt he will be a good player. But this fucking infighting on here is getting old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Does anybody remember Buster Skrine first season with Haden...Gilbert will be fine and prove his draft slot IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitchTits Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Look....I dont know what your agenda is, but you should really give it a rest.....I cant explain myself any clearer and we aren't communicating...ok?,,,,but I will answer your questions....nicely..... cbbacker, on 27 Apr 2015 - 5:53 PM, said: Its not an "article" is a player stat sight that sorts every stat imaginable and also score player by the game. I can see it because I have subscription to it. Hey that's fine, you finally answered my question. I have only been trying to get you to explain where you got your #15 comment. Don't get pissy with me for that. You could have said 3 posts ago you couldn't link it. Instead you either ignored it, or forgot about it. What am I supposed to think when you won't answer the simple question? You could have settled that part 4 posts ago. That's your fault. I also am not likely to believe something I cant see. While you may not be able to link it, only means your lazy and not willing to find anything else on the internet to help back you. I have put in my time, and you have completely ignored everything i have put. I showed you were wrong on the snap counts, but nothing from you. I showed you what our DC felt about Williams over Gilbert, you ignored it. I showed 2 places that had Watkins as a top 4 wr at the end of the year for rookies, but you ignored it. Why are you mad at me? You are the one who wanted the stats, links and proof, and when I provide it, you ignore it and get pissy? Most other sights, like the ones you listed below, use PFF as their source. Most fantasy site do to. Pretty much the standard. With 5 min investigation I found 2 backing me. I bet with 20 to sift through all the fantasy crap, I could likely find 1-2 more, but you are unable to find any except from a pay site you apparently no longer have access to? I have access to it, but you cannot link to or copy their pages, which is how they protect the integrity of the "pay" site....otherwise, one guy pays then posts it all over and no one else wants to pay....see?.... What does fantasy have to do with NFL? Absolutely nothing. So it doesn't matter that they use pff to help them with there evaluations. Honestly I don't even buy that they use them. Rankings for fantasy and reality can be very different. Not always, but usually. I am starting to think you were looking at fantasy rankings. I found these with him around the spot you claim with only 10 minutes worth of work. You can make snide comments, and say garbage like " Not sure why I even bother to pay, since I just lie and make shit up anyway....when will I learn...." To bad you just cannot admit you are wrong. Remember you are the one who started this. You are the one who challenged me to back up my points. You are the one who pushed this. Now you're mad that I found stuff to prove you wrong....You're a Retard. Go away. You stated just one paragraph up about pff and fantasy, yet call me a Retard when I ask if you are confused? I don't understand why you are hating on me. I only did what you asked. If anyone should be mad, it should be me. You are completely ignoring everything i posted with facts, and links to back them. You haven't posted any stats, nor links, but continue to toss insults. Are you just unable to articulate whe you are thinking? Are you just lazy and don't want to prove what you say? Are you just one of those people that just says what he wants, and even when wrong hold firm to his stance? I mean seriously, why so hateful? If you don't want to continue, just stop posting. I have already agreed earlier to stay out of your responses if you do the same. Remember YOU are the one who wanted me to do this, so don't get mad at me just doing what you said. This can end whenever you are ready? I know I am right, you know I am right. I don't even need you to say it, keep your pride. Just stop. And yes I have no problem replying till this thread is locked if you do. I would rather however talk about Justin Gilbert and see what other peoples beliefs are concerning him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Mudfly, I agree with your analysis. I've already predicted on this board that Justin will be the most improved player on the Browns next year. And while the "not-to-be-coached" ego thing is probably true, I also didn't like the way the coach handled Justine. Put him in the games and let him sink/swim and learn. The headlines in the paper the next day are the way you motivate a JG to improve his skills and learn the craft. There was no need to starts Desir and others over Gilbert towards the end of the season. The Pick-6 was a turning point and should have garnered Justin much more playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitchTits Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Mudfly, I agree with your analysis. I've already predicted on this board that Justin will be the most improved player on the Browns next year. And while the "not-to-be-coached" ego thing is probably true, I also didn't like the way the coach handled Justine. Put him in the games and let him sink/swim and learn. The headlines in the paper the next day are the way you motivate a JG to improve his skills and learn the craft. There was no need to starts Desir and others over Gilbert towards the end of the season. The Pick-6 was a turning point and should have garnered Justin much more playing time. Interesting idea, but what if he is costing you games? I mean if we are terrible, say working on a 4-12 season, I can see the sink/swim approach. What if like last year at one point we are 7-3? If he is risking you games do you still leave him in? Hmm tough call i think honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Mudfly, I agree with your analysis. I've already predicted on this board that Justin will be the most improved player on the Browns next year. And while the "not-to-be-coached" ego thing is probably true, I also didn't like the way the coach handled Justine. Put him in the games and let him sink/swim and learn. The headlines in the paper the next day are the way you motivate a JG to improve his skills and learn the craft. There was no need to starts Desir and others over Gilbert towards the end of the season. The Pick-6 was a turning point and should have garnered Justin much more playing time. You do know that Pet is all about earning playing time with the way you practice during the week... right? It was in all the papers to which you refer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Mudfly, I agree with your analysis. I've already predicted on this board that Justin will be the most improved player on the Browns next year. And while the "not-to-be-coached" ego thing is probably true, I also didn't like the way the coach handled Justine. Put him in the games and let him sink/swim and learn. The headlines in the paper the next day are the way you motivate a JG to improve his skills and learn the craft. There was no need to starts Desir and others over Gilbert towards the end of the season. The Pick-6 was a turning point and should have garnered Justin much more playing time. I agree I would have liked to see him play more and feel...(based upon GAME play only)...he deserved more snaps and shoulda been out there.... I think well be seeing more of those pick 6 plays in the near future.....dude can flat out fly!!!! I also like Pettines "no favorites" mentality and stand firm with him teaching a lil maturity to the young pups... You do know that Pet is all about earning playing time with the way you practice during the week... right? It was in all the papers to which you refer. practice?......PRACTICE???......we talking bout PRACTICE??.....hahaha..... Im with ya Tour.....Pettines the man and proves it each week.....and no doubt, he made it pretty clear why these guys weren't playing... In the end....with both with West and Gilbert......Pettine had some help making those tough choices, cause it's much easier sitting talented guys for disciplinary reasons, when there is good talent behind them....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Gilbert working out with Haden will be beneficial for more than just the obvious reasons. Justin will see how filthy fucking rich Haden is and say "yeah, I want that" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitchTits Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Gilbert working out with Haden will be beneficial for more than just the obvious reasons. Justin will see how filthy fucking rich Haden is and say "yeah, I want that" You know you would think that everybody would be in that position to be honestl. But there are so many dumb asses like Josh Gordon!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Interesting idea, but what if he is costing you games? I mean if we are terrible, say working on a 4-12 season, I can see the sink/swim approach. What if like last year at one point we are 7-3? If he is risking you games do you still leave him in? Hmm tough call i think honestly. What about when all the other CB's were costing us games, like Skrine, Haden, Petterson ... ? It's a position where you learn by trial and fire. and the fear of failure. A coach can't manage all players the same because different things motivate different people. If he wasn't practicing well, I expect Hayden, Dansby, etc. to call him out. But the coach needs to find what motivates Gilbert and use it to get him on the playing field - he was our number 1 draft choice and a consensus great cover corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I also like Pettines "no favorites" mentality and stand firm with him teaching a lil maturity to the young pups... ... Me too. But why wasn't Manziel and Gilbert fined or suspended for their behavior? Is it really "no favorites"? I wonder if the other players think that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitchTits Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 What about when all the other CB's were costing us games, like Skrine, Haden, Petterson ... ? It's a position where you learn by trial and fire. and the fear of failure. A coach can't manage all players the same because different things motivate different people. If he wasn't practicing well, I expect Hayden, Dansby, etc. to call him out. But the coach needs to find what motivates Gilbert and use it to get him on the playing field - he was our number 1 draft choice and a consensus great cover corner. Actually there were knocks on him as with all prospects coming out of the draft. But the difference between Skrine Haden, and Patterson is that we were never close to 7 wins, much less 7-3. Trial by fire can work, but it can also be very detrimental. Destroying a guys confidence can be more harmful then an injury. I am sure Johnny would agree with that. I just don't think you risk it at a point when you are winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Actually there were knocks on him as with all prospects coming out of the draft. But the difference between Skrine Haden, and Patterson is that we were never close to 7 wins, much less 7-3. Trial by fire can work, but it can also be very detrimental. Destroying a guys confidence can be more harmful then an injury. I am sure Johnny would agree with that. I just don't think you risk it at a point when you are winning. But he wasn't getting reps even after the season was in the dumper. And when he made the pick-6 (a huge confidence booster) and he continued to play well (as Mudfly illustrated at the beginning of this thread), he should have been receiving most of the reps in prep for 2015. Moreover, there are four positions in football where you have to not let the last play eat you up, CB, QB, WR and K. It's going to happen (getting beaten for a TD, Interception, Dropped Pass, Missed Field Goal). If you can't shake it off, you can't be a professional at those positions because mistakes are big and costly, but the opportunity will present itself once again and you need to be mentally prepared to perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted June 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Well....early indicators are the our new DB's are showing up and looking to be improved, which is fantastic news......Im really excited to see Gilbert develop, cause I think he's gonna be, not good, but "great"......Kwaun and Gilbert are already flying around making plays(a VERY good sign to the positive).....and Tramon is looking like the guy we hoped he would be(not that there was much question on him to begin with)..... Our pass defense is going to be bad ass......period.......(no matter WHO starts where)....... """"1) DB Justin Gilbert is making plays Gilbert’s recovery speed and pure athleticism were on full display Tuesday. In an 11-on-11 drill that had the Browns offense in the red zone, the cornerback broke up consecutive passes on quarterback Johnny Manziel, diving and batting the ball away at the last moment. After the second knockdown, his defensive teammates broke out in a chorus of cheers, loudly approving of his Tuesday practice session. “He’s comfortable,” cornerback Joe Haden said. “He’s making plays.” The changes from Gilbert have been all about paying attention to minor details – knowing where to be in zone coverage, taking more detailed notes in meetings and, plainly, more seasoning. It is worth noting that Gilbert had a shaky junior season at Oklahoma State before picking off six passes his senior year and proving to be one of college football’s preeminent cornerbacks. “I definitely see changes, but I think you said it – probably too early,” coach Mike Pettine said. “It’s just all about consistency. Just coming in here, perfecting his craft every day, and right now it’s so far so good.” As of now, Gilbert and fellow second-year defensive back Pierre Desir have been locked in with the second unit as the outside cornerbacks. Gilbert’s repetitions with the first unit could see a bump if days like Tuesday keep happening."""""""" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Gotta get that cornerback confidence going in Gilbert that Haden has and all will be well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If Desir is the #4 CB, does that mean K'Waun is now practicing with the safeties? if not.. he should be.. Glad to hear Gilbert is finally acting like a professional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If Desir is the #4 CB, does that mean K'Waun is now practicing with the safeties? if not.. he should be.. Glad to hear Gilbert is finally acting like a professional #1 slot. Desir is #4 outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Does anybody remember Buster Skrine first season with Haden...Gilbert will be fine and prove his draft slot IMO... Great post here, what I was coming to say. Look, Gilbert had an attitude problem coming into the league, there's no doubt about it. But, in a similar vein to Manziel, he got humbled in a big way throughout the season. Going back to Skrine though, I'd make the bigger argument the CB is the hardest position outside of QB to transition to in today's NFL. I'm excited and hopeful Gilbert has worked hard to get better and becomes the player he can be. His athletic ability is through the roof, just gotta make it work between the ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 #1 slot. Desir is #4 outside. yep...Kwaun = nickle back(slot).... RCB: Tramon Williams (Justin Gilbert) LCB: Joe Haden (Pierre Desir) SCB: Kwaun Williams (Tramon Williams) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 yep...Kwaun = nickle back(slot).... RCB: Tramon Williams (Justin Gilbert) LCB: Joe Haden (Pierre Desir) SCB: Kwaun Williams (Tramon Williams) You can probably count on one hand the number of snaps we'll play with only two CBs per game. Last year we were playing with as many as 6 or 7 at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yep.....they L-O-V-E nickle & dime D's........live and die by it really..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If Gilbert plays like a 1st round draft pick this year, (let alone a top 10 pick) our defense should be able to get the heck off the field on 3rd down pretty consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If Gilbert plays like a 1st round draft pick this year, (let alone a top 10 pick) our defense should be able to get the heck off the field on 3rd down pretty consistently. STOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If Gilbert plays like a 1st round draft pick this year, (let alone a top 10 pick) our defense should be able to get the heck off the field on 3rd down pretty consistently. Yes! and, I think, we'll even get off the field on 1st and 2nd down more frequently too.....#morepickoffs STOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUNSTOPTHERUN ??.....what are you trying to say?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yes! and, I think, we'll even get off the field on 1st and 2nd down more frequently too.....#morepickoffs ??.....what are you trying to say?..... That our DBs weren't the reason we didn't get off on third down last year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Stopping the run is an obvious fix that is priority #1 and between the players added and the coaches seeing what the main issues were, and promising to correct them, I feel good about them being at least a middle of the road run defense. That should lead to a fair amount of 3rd and 5s this year, and with our lack of QB pressure that I'm again expecting, the DBs are going to need to ball out, and we need all of them to ball out, not just #23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Stopping the run is an obvious fix that is priority #1 and between the players added and the coaches seeing what the main issues were, and promising to correct them, I feel good about them being at least a middle of the road run defense. That should lead to a fair amount of 3rd and 5s this year, and with our lack of QB pressure that I'm again expecting, the DBs are going to need to ball out, and we need all of them to ball out, not just #23. Problem was, at 3rd & 5 teams would still run against us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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