miktoxic Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 a real man can own up to his mis speak and faux pas. nobody is right all the time. but just like the political climate, don't shoot down someone with a diff opinion than yours from tires to a football team. fans are fans are fans. if people want to whine or bitch let them and turn the channel if you don't like it. jesus h jumpin jehosaphat batman, if any fandom in the world deserves to bitch whine be concerned or just throw themselves off a cliff it's us browns fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 problem is we haven't out-drafted anyone. yeah there might be 3 or 4 keepers and maybe a star in the making but with what, From what a lot of the other divisional fan forums post we Are out drafting them.But with a lot of luke warm college talent.Reddit.com is full of them.Another concern of most division forums is Our FO is now another worry cause it's not "the same old Browns".Bengals posters are delirious right now with teams future.Myself, I have Booked it,that next seasons 1st round pick will go into a shot at a true franchise QB. If we get it right? That's where it always all starts...QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 From what a lot of the other divisional fan forums post we Are out drafting them.But with a lot of luke warm college talent.Reddit.com is full of them.Another concern of most division forums is Our FO is now another worry cause it's not "the same old Browns".Bengals posters are delirious right now with teams future.Myself, I have Booked it,that next seasons 1st round pick will go into a shot at a true franchise QB. If we get it right? That's where it always all starts...QB. The other teams in this division are not all that good. The Steelers make hay based on 3 outstanding players. If BR goes down...they are BS. The Ravens are mediocre at best. The Browns may already have surpassed the Bengals in overall talent. The fact that they lost their best OL to us is part of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Nobody ever built a fucking football team through the draft. N O B O D Y. Of course that's where new players come from, but NOBODY ever built a fucking team with no leaders, no veteran stars to bolster the classroom and development. I'd invite you to go back & look at the TB Buccaneers years of Tony Dungy drafts. Than John Gruden comes in, in 02 to win a super bowl with Dungy's homegrown draft picks..Keyshawn Johnson was also brought in from Jets by Dungy in 2000 at 27 years old to finish off the missing parts..It's not impossible (U Fucking idiot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 The Troy Aikman Cowboys were draft built. But to the Ghoul's point, overall we've done a lousy job with veteran talent. It all started with our Plan B draft when Dwight Clark took all special teamers and left all of the veteran leadership on the board. That stunted our growth...and we've never recovered...except for when Mangini made our team old with old vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 But to the Ghoul's point, overall we've done a lousy job with veteran talent. Take the 2 Ravens titles as another example. Your drafts has to have enough hits showing a ability to win. Ravens drafted a Great Defense.Jamal Lewis in 2000 & Ray Rice in 08. You surround those drafts with the missing pricey pieces. Ravens in 2000 only had Tony Banks & Trent Dilfer playing 8 games each at QB but the key addition was Shannon Sharpe coming from Denver.Made Jamal Lewis even better. In 2012 it was Flaco carrying all 16 games with Tyrod Taylor as his backup but without the addition of Anquan Boldin from Zona doubt they get their 2nd title with a solo Ray Rice.(maybe with that defense?).Without the key draft pieces being your foundation we keep finding 5 FA Tramon Williams's out there blaming our organization, but not their play.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Tell me what fucking Vets, we tried? Name me the Peyton Manning caliber vets we have signed. GO ahead, tell me about how we have "tried. Nobody ever built a fucking football team through the draft. N O B O D Y. Of course that's where new players come from, but NOBODY ever built a fucking team with no leaders, no veteran stars to bolster the classroom and development. NOBODY has had more draft picks than Cleveland. And what has it delivered? 1 - 19 and no fucking chance at ending the 2017 with a QB who can take you into 2018. No WRs to make TDs, the only TE we had, we got rid of......... for what? Unproven shit. Garrett WILL be hurt and done. He was the dumbest fucking pick imaginable, from the getgo. But hey, Hue and company are far smarter than I am. Far be it from me to ever spend 500 million dollars to achieve 1 - 19. What the fuck do I know? Fucking idiots. Peyton Manning caliber? ? That's your criteria? One of the best that's ever played, and that's your benchmark for judging our moves? No wonder you're such a joke on here... The rest of your rant is more pointless unsubstantiated nonsense. Frankly, your opinion is so meaningless that I'm not wasting my time to refute any of it...and it is refutable, I assure you. You're just too old, ignorant, and stupid to grasp that kind of information. So yell and scream all ya want...I'm sure Viking will be along to join your lonely little circle jerk. Meanwhile, the adults will carry on and continue laughing at your foolishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 I'd invite you to go back & look at the TB Buccaneers years of Tony Dungy drafts. Than John Gruden comes in, in 02 to win a super bowl with Dungy's homegrown draft picks..Keyshawn Johnson was also brought in from Jets by Dungy in 2000 at 27 years old to finish off the missing parts..It's not impossible (U Fucking idiot) Good points Gums! Not only that, I think he added WR Keenan McCardell and Brad Johnson as his veteran QB of choice to be the starter for his Superbowl Champion. I think they also added Pro Bowl DE Simeon Rice to their defense. Once you get a good roster - the recruiting attraction of the program improves accordingly. Back when Tampa was serial killing QBs - nobody wanted to go there. Gruden always gets credited for developing young QBs, but in that Superbowl matchup alone - it was his former starting QB (in Oakland) Gannon vrs his current starting QB Johnson. Weren't both QBs in their mid-late 30s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 Once you get a good roster - the recruiting attraction of the program improves accordingly. Back when Tampa was serial killing QBs - nobody wanted to go there. Gruden always gets credited for developing young QBs, but in that Superbowl matchup alone - it was his former starting QB (in Oakland) Gannon vrs his current starting QB Johnson. Weren't both QBs in their mid-late 30s? Am liking the TB root Flug..if Garrett gives us S.Rice & Collins is D.Brooks & Peppers plays John Lynch we got a leap start..I kinda even laugh at the Gruden/Huejax QB whispers comparison when Brad Johnson at age 34 played 13 games for tampa that season. Rob Johnson age 29 played 2 & Shawn King at 25 played a large 1 game..Rich Gannon was age 37 and played all 16 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 Good points Gums! Not only that, I think he added WR Keenan McCardell and Brad Johnson as his veteran QB of choice to be the starter for his Superbowl Champion. I think they also added Pro Bowl DE Simeon Rice to their defense. Once you get a good roster - the recruiting attraction of the program improves accordingly. Back when Tampa was serial killing QBs - nobody wanted to go there. Gruden always gets credited for developing young QBs, but in that Superbowl matchup alone - it was his former starting QB (in Oakland) Gannon vrs his current starting QB Johnson. Weren't both QBs in their mid-late 30s? I didn't think McCardell was on that team. I thought he was with the Jags. Just going from memory...though you may be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 I didn't think McCardell was on that team. I thought he was with the Jags. Just going from memory...though you may be right. After Jax, McCardell played for Tampa for 2 years (and was on their Superbowl Championship Team). Here's his numbers: 2002 (age 32) 14 Games 61 rec 670 yds 6 TDs 2003 (age 33) 16 Games 84 rec 1174 yds 8 TDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 Am liking the TB root Flug..if Garrett gives us S.Rice & Collins is D.Brooks & Peppers plays John Lynch we got a leap start..I kinda even laugh at the Gruden/Huejax QB whispers comparison when Brad Johnson at age 34 played 13 games for tampa that season. Rob Johnson age 29 played 2 & Shawn King at 25 played a large 1 game..Rich Gannon was age 37 and played all 16 games Me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoolie Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 The other teams in this division are not all that good. The Steelers make hay based on 3 outstanding players. If BR goes down...they are BS. The Ravens are mediocre at best. The Browns may already have surpassed the Bengals in overall talent. The fact that they lost their best OL to us is part of that. What great team is great without their QB? Duh........... The Browns are in the unique position in that if NOBODY get injured..........they still suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 What great team is great without their QB? Duh........... The Browns are in the unique position in that if NOBODY get injured..........they still suck. The Pittsburgh Steeroids won 4 Superbowls in the 70s with a hollow dome at QB. When you have to label your most important pass play in franchise history after a miracle "the Immaculate Reception" - while many of Lynn Swann's clutch plays required circus catches with the acrobatics of a Mary Lou Retton - you have to wonder if Bradshaw wasn't just a glorified passenger getting a free pass beneficiary to the hall of Fame. Frenchie Fuqua got hung out to dry with an ill-advised throw that floated over the middle. The violent collision re-routed the pass to Franco Harris who scooped it in about a millimeter above the ground for an easy TD jog. On top of all that, here's his passer ratings that prolly had Noll wondering if Bradshaw could really win somewhere that didn't have a utopian set-up: 1970 30.4 6 TD 24 INT 1971 59.7 13 TD 22 INT 1972 64.1 12 TD 12 INT 1973 54.5 10 TD 15 INT 1974 55.2 7 TD 8 INT 1975 88.0 18 TD 9 INT 1976 65.4 10 TD 9 INT 1977 71.4 17 TD 19 INT He was still getting benched for piss poor performance in his 4th NFL season, which kind of sheds some light on the turbulent relationship he had with Chuck Noll. He had some passer ratings that went above 80 in 1978,1981 and 1982 but in those 3 seasons he had 45 INTs reminding us there better be a damn good defense damage controlling that to save the day as often as necessary. It's also no secret that Bradshaw and Lynn Swann haven't been the best of friends dating back to their playing days. That roided up Pitt team had the defense, running game, perimeter talent and pervasive steroid use to win about 7 Superbowls at bigger margins of victory than the 16-6 they settled for against Minnesota. Did Bradshaw do anything more than take Mike Webster's groinal inventory all game? I would have loved to have seen Kosar or Sipe get the margin of error Pittsburgh tucked Bradshaw into his HOF career with in terms of overall talent top to bottom. Can you imagine if Fouts or Marino had that kind of margin of error, where their defense could chip in scoring 7-10 points weekly while creating turnovers and limiting opponent scoring enough to make the QB's challenge easy every week? Having 2 RBs in Pitt's backfield rush for over 1000 yards in the same season didn't hurt either;especially when it was time to protect a lead and eat clock. We won the division in 85 with that kind of 1-2 punch from Mack and Byner during Kosar's rookie season/learning experience he ended up replacing Danielson about 5-6 weeks into things. We've been giving our QBs a whole lot less to work with than Bradshaw got in Pittsburgh; and we aren't waiting until their 6th season for the QB to emerge/look the part. In fact, sometimes we're not even waiting until the end of their first September to make our conclusions. Deferring our coin toss victories to the 31st ranked defense and an inevitable 7 point deficit only to tell the rookie/Kessler "go get em kid" almost had the same kind of prognosis that handing a box of matches to a pyromaniac and telling him to be careful has. Someone is getting hurt. I'm sure a kid like Goff wished he had the set-up Dak Prescott walked into. Guys like Troy Aikman and Steve Young got more than 1 concussion in their rookie NFL seasons on shit teams while many fans made premature conclusions with a certainty neither was headed for a HOF career. This draft may or may not have had the right QB for our future; but I think our FO finally worked diligently in the off-season to set up a much more QB friendly Oline with a very promising young TE that can jump, jet and catch (with a QB friendly catch radius) that was MIA in 2016. We also added an experienced WR coming off his best season (reception volume-wise) who also has a nice catch radius. That's a much better signing than Dwayne Bowe (3 years removed from his last good football for $12 million). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 GREAT post Fluges!......hollow dome?.....Ahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa..... Bradshaw is one of the dumbest AND luckiest QB's to ever grace the NFL......HOF quality QB, my ass....lucky sob?....yep.... There's a reason it took years for him to earn Nolls nod....cause he kind of sucked.... ...a career 1 TD to 1 Int ratio....bites.... ....150th highest passer rating.....bites.... ....less than 2000 yds per year.....bites..... I wouldnt even put him top 100 in anything....let alone HOF...... He got a free ride alllllllllll the way to the promised land.......and in the booth too....cause he's dumb like rocks.....darrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoolie Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 Yeah,,,,,,Bradshaw really sucked. How many accomplishments did Bernie garner again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 Bradshaw & Namath.....2 QBs who make me wonder how EITHER of 'em made it to the HOF. Oh yeah, Joe looked fine in panty hose!??? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 Bradshaw & Namath.....2 QBs who make me wonder how EITHER of 'em made it to the HOF. Oh yeah, Joe looked fine in panty hose!??? Mike Don't worry - if those panty hose were air tight on any QB that grew up in PA or played in Pittsburgh, Ghoolie bought the Playgirl Magazine they appeared in. He probably asked if they had any scratch and sniff editions. You should have seen the crush he had on Tommy Maddox when he wore those gold pants extra tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 Yeah,,,,,,Bradshaw really sucked. How many accomplishments did Bernie garner again. I dont know.....how does Bernie have anything to do with Bradshaw? I know you've never heard me mention Bernie as a great QB or HOF talent......not once, everrrrrrr...... And I applauded when Bill pulled the trigger.....so.....try again..... Bradshaw fell into a massive pool of talented players....he was just a dope lucky enough to be along for the free ride..... Dude had a HOF line, a HOF RB and 2 HOF receivers, yet completed only 50% of his passes.....and threw an interception for every TD....pretty piss poor if yer askin me.... As an aside....even though I dont think Bernie was that great.....Id say he'd have done as well as Bradshaw did, if given the same team...(cause he sure as hell had better numbers, with way fewer weapons) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 GREAT post Fluges!......hollow dome?.....Ahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa..... Bradshaw is one of the dumbest AND luckiest QB's to ever grace the NFL......HOF quality QB, my ass....lucky sob?....yep.... There's a reason it took years for him to earn Nolls nod....cause he kind of sucked.... ...a career 1 TD to 1 Int ratio....bites.... ....150th highest passer rating.....bites.... ....less than 2000 yds per year.....bites..... I wouldnt even put him top 100 in anything....let alone HOF...... He got a free ride alllllllllll the way to the promised land.......and in the booth too....cause he's dumb like rocks.....darrrr Thanks Mud! I saw the same guy you did and I posted the numbers behind the why.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 Bradshaw & Namath.....2 QBs who make me wonder how EITHER of 'em made it to the HOF. Oh yeah, Joe looked fine in panty hose!??? Mike Because Joe Namath is the coolest son of a bitch to ever play football. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Anyone who said Bradshaw sucked don't know what the hell they're talking about or , never watched him play..Bradshaw had "Guile"... A will to win like no other I ever saw in that era... Bradshaw himself admitted he didn't have the best vision. But he had this incredible will to make plays when he needed to. Yeah the numbers didn't always look great.. But you can't argue with the end result.... 4 Superbowls. Steroids or not... How many do the Browns have?.. oh yeah 0...Theres only a few QB's that had pure "Guile" .... Bradshaw was one of them.. Along with Unitas and Elway..That's pretty damn good company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoolie Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Anyone who said Bradshaw sucked don't know what the hell they're talking about or , never watched him play..Bradshaw had "Guile"... A will to win like no other I ever saw in that era... Bradshaw himself admitted he didn't have the best vision. But he had this incredible will to make plays when he needed to. Yeah the numbers didn't always look great.. But you can't argue with the end result.... 4 Superbowls. Steroids or not... How many do the Browns have?.. oh yeah 0...Theres only a few QB's that had pure "Guile" .... Bradshaw was one of them.. Along with Unitas and Elway..That's pretty damn good company. Bradshaw was the best QB in the modern era of pro football. He was pure warrior, pure will and unlike any QB since Elway, he as a leader of men. I remember the last time he played the Browns. He was on the bench, his arm shot. The Browns had something like a 10 point lead and the Steelers looked hopeless. Noll decided to let injured TB go into the game. The reports are that he went into the huddle and said, "let's have some fun", and he proceeded to throw 2 4th QTR touchdowns and shove it right up the Browns ass, as he always did. NUMBERS? HERE.................... FAr BETTER THAN OTTO GRAHAM............... FAR FAR BETTER Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers. Career postseason record: 14-5 Career postseason statistics: 261-456, 3833 yards, 30 TD, 26 INT; 83.0 passer rating Terry Bradshaw is just one of two quarterbacks to win four Super Bowls. In each of the Steelers' Super Bowl victories, he posted a passer rating above 100. He led a fourth quarter comeback in the second and fourth games, and threw a touchdown pass in the fourth quarter of each game. As a matter of fact, Bradshaw's fourth quarter passing statistics in the Super Bowl look like this: 11-16, 292 yards, 4 TD That is not a typo. Bradshaw averaged 18 yards per pass attempt. He threw five incompletions against four touchdown passes. His final pass in his first three Super Bowls was a touchdown pass, and in his fourth Super Bowl, it was a 45-yard completion that set up a final touchdown. His passer rating is a jaw-dropping 151.0, and he was awarded the MVP trophy in his final two Super Bowls. Bradshaw doesn't just shine in the Super Bowl either. There was the "Immaculate Reception," a fourth-down, game-winning, 60-yard touchdown pass to Franco Harris on the final play of the game. Then there were the 1976 AFC divisional playoffs, where Bradshaw posted a perfect passer rating against the Baltimore Colts. Bradshaw threw for two or more touchdown passes in his final seven postseason games, all of which the Steelers scored 27+ points. He averaged an incredible 8.4 yards per pass attempt throughout his playoff career. What a bunch of bitter, blind, ignorant cock-suckers Browns fans are. Far-far better than Otto when tit really mattered. Greatest QB of all time? Yer goddamned right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Anyone who said Bradshaw sucked don't know what the hell they're talking about or , never watched him play..Bradshaw had "Guile"... A will to win like no other I ever saw in that era... Bradshaw himself admitted he didn't have the best vision. But he had this incredible will to make plays when he needed to. Yeah the numbers didn't always look great.. But you can't argue with the end result.... 4 Superbowls. Steroids or not... How many do the Browns have?.. oh yeah 0...Theres only a few QB's that had pure "Guile" .... Bradshaw was one of them.. Along with Unitas and Elway..That's pretty damn good company. Not to interrupt your spin the bottle session with Ghoolie; but you don't have a very good reputation at all in here when it comes to knowing what you're talking about. Teams can win SB Titles in spite of their QB if they're talented enough or guys like Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler wouldn't have SB rings. If you really think that makes them better than Marino and Fouts then God bless ya! Yeah Nickers - you would really worship this kind of start from a QB here while telling everyone they just need to be patient. 1970 30.4 rating 6 TD 24 INT 1971 59.7 rating 13 TD 22 INT 1972 64.1 rating 12 TD 12 INT 1973 54.5 rating 10 TD 15 INT 1974 55.2 rating 7 TD 8 INT 1975 88.0 rating 18 TD 9 INT 1976 65.4 rating 10 TD 9 INT 1977 71.4 rating 17 TD 19 INT I have seen Bradshaw play so I understand why his HC (Noll) and top receiver (Swann) never thought he was that great when they had enough talent around him to accomplish what the Cleveland Browns did from 46-55 (winning 7 Pro Football Championships of the 10 they appeared in). We've had the best QB (Otto Graham) and he wasn't still getting benched in his 4th season like your hero Bradshaw. Instead, Graham was leading his team to their 4th consecutive Pro Football Championship in just his 4th season. You and Ghoolie can't tell the difference between a driver and a passenger. Graham was a driver- Bradshaw was a passenger. The best pass of Bradshaw's career was named after a miracle; and if you saw the play - you'd know why. We have 2 knuckleheads in here that are bragging about Terry Bradshaw instead of Otto Graham and telling people they don't know what they're talking about. Priceless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Not to interrupt your spin the bottle session with Ghoolie; but you don't have a very good reputation at all in here when it comes to knowing what you're talking about. Teams can win SB Titles in spite of their QB if they're talented enough or guys like Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler wouldn't have SB rings. If you really think that makes them better than Marino and Fouts then God bless ya! Yeah Nickers - you would really worship this kind of start from a QB here while telling everyone they just need to be patient. 1970 30.4 rating 6 TD 24 INT 1971 59.7 rating 13 TD 22 INT 1972 64.1 rating 12 TD 12 INT 1973 54.5 rating 10 TD 15 INT 1974 55.2 rating 7 TD 8 INT 1975 88.0 rating 18 TD 9 INT 1976 65.4 rating 10 TD 9 INT 1977 71.4 rating 17 TD 19 INT I have seen Bradshaw play so I understand why his HC (Noll) and top receiver (Swann) never thought he was that great when they had enough talent around him to accomplish what the Cleveland Browns did from 46-55 (winning 7 Pro Football Championships of the 10 they appeared in). We've had the best QB (Otto Graham) and he wasn't still getting benched in his 4th season like your hero Bradshaw. Instead, Graham was leading his team to their 4th consecutive Pro Football Championship in just his 4th season. You and Ghoolie can't tell the difference between a driver and a passenger. Graham was a driver- Bradshaw was a passenger. The best pass of Bradshaw's career was named after a miracle; and if you saw the play - you'd know why. We have 2 knuckleheads in here that are bragging about Terry Bradshaw instead of Otto Graham and telling people they don't know what they're talking about. Priceless! And the Bradshaw has 4 rings.. Sipe has how many?.. Im not saying Bradshaw was GOAT.. But when it mattered,,He won... Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler were garbage.. Bradshaw had will and conviction. Bradshaw had the clutch gene... Dlido had 2 guys named Lewis on his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 After Jax, McCardell played for Tampa for 2 years (and was on their Superbowl Championship Team). Here's his numbers: 2002 (age 32) 14 Games 61 rec 670 yds 6 TDs 2003 (age 33) 16 Games 84 rec 1174 yds 8 TDs Alrighty then. I guess I just didn't remember that. Remembered him going from here to the Jags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 What great team is great without their QB? Duh........... The Browns are in the unique position in that if NOBODY get injured..........they still suck. The point is, your fellow steelerfan butt sniffers would not agree with that axiom. They think that even without their top 2-3 players (skill players)...that they would still be a great team...just because they are the Steelers. Except, of course, that was disproven in the last game last year, where the Browns kicked their asses all over the field.....and it was just the Browns shooting themselves in the foot at every turn that caused them to lose the game. Point being...without BR/Brown/Bell....the Steeler team last year was otherwise on par with a 1-15 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 The Pittsburgh Steeroids won 4 Superbowls in the 70s with a hollow dome at QB. When you have to label your most important pass play in franchise history after a miracle "the Immaculate Reception" - while many of Lynn Swann's clutch plays required circus catches with the acrobatics of a Mary Lou Retton - you have to wonder if Bradshaw wasn't just a glorified passenger getting a free pass beneficiary to the hall of Fame. Frenchie Fuqua got hung out to dry with an ill-advised throw that floated over the middle. The violent collision re-routed the pass to Franco Harris who scooped it in about a millimeter above the ground for an easy TD jog. On top of all that, here's his passer ratings that prolly had Noll wondering if Bradshaw could really win somewhere that didn't have a utopian set-up: 1970 30.4 6 TD 24 INT 1971 59.7 13 TD 22 INT 1972 64.1 12 TD 12 INT 1973 54.5 10 TD 15 INT 1974 55.2 7 TD 8 INT 1975 88.0 18 TD 9 INT 1976 65.4 10 TD 9 INT 1977 71.4 17 TD 19 INT He was still getting benched for piss poor performance in his 4th NFL season, which kind of sheds some light on the turbulent relationship he had with Chuck Noll. He had some passer ratings that went above 80 in 1978,1981 and 1982 but in those 3 seasons he had 45 INTs reminding us there better be a damn good defense damage controlling that to save the day as often as necessary. It's also no secret that Bradshaw and Lynn Swann haven't been the best of friends dating back to their playing days. That roided up Pitt team had the defense, running game, perimeter talent and pervasive steroid use to win about 7 Superbowls at bigger margins of victory than the 16-6 they settled for against Minnesota. Did Bradshaw do anything more than take Mike Webster's groinal inventory all game? I would have loved to have seen Kosar or Sipe get the margin of error Pittsburgh tucked Bradshaw into his HOF career with in terms of overall talent top to bottom. Can you imagine if Fouts or Marino had that kind of margin of error, where their defense could chip in scoring 7-10 points weekly while creating turnovers and limiting opponent scoring enough to make the QB's challenge easy every week? Having 2 RBs in Pitt's backfield rush for over 1000 yards in the same season didn't hurt either;especially when it was time to protect a lead and eat clock. We won the division in 85 with that kind of 1-2 punch from Mack and Byner during Kosar's rookie season/learning experience he ended up replacing Danielson about 5-6 weeks into things. We've been giving our QBs a whole lot less to work with than Bradshaw got in Pittsburgh; and we aren't waiting until their 6th season for the QB to emerge/look the part. In fact, sometimes we're not even waiting until the end of their first September to make our conclusions. Deferring our coin toss victories to the 31st ranked defense and an inevitable 7 point deficit only to tell the rookie/Kessler "go get em kid" almost had the same kind of prognosis that handing a box of matches to a pyromaniac and telling him to be careful has. Someone is getting hurt. I'm sure a kid like Goff wished he had the set-up Dak Prescott walked into. Guys like Troy Aikman and Steve Young got more than 1 concussion in their rookie NFL seasons on shit teams while many fans made premature conclusions with a certainty neither was headed for a HOF career. This draft may or may not have had the right QB for our future; but I think our FO finally worked diligently in the off-season to set up a much more QB friendly Oline with a very promising young TE that can jump, jet and catch (with a QB friendly catch radius) that was MIA in 2016. We also added an experienced WR coming off his best season (reception volume-wise) who also has a nice catch radius. That's a much better signing than Dwayne Bowe (3 years removed from his last good football for $12 million). I am not sure I necessarily agree that Bradshaw was just along for the ride. He did take some time to learn the game...but back then it was a common thought process that no QB was ready until between his 3rd and 5th year in the league. As for Bradshaw TD/Int. ration....that, again, was fairly typical of QBs back in those days. I don't think the Steelers actually win the way they did if Joe Gilliam or Terry Hanratty were their QB during that era. Given the strength of that team, they certainly would have been contenders, but not necessarily the champions they were. One interesting hypothetical we have discussed in the past is based on the fact that Bradshaw was #1 overall the year he came out, and Mike Phipps was #3 overall.: Would the Steelers have been as good if Phipps had been their choice, and Bradshaw came to the Browns? Would they have won all those game with Phipps at the helm? I say no. Phipps was no good, Bradshaw was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 At the risk of agreeing with Nickers... ... I have to say that Bradshaw was the right QB for the Steelers of the 70's.... much as McMahon was for the '85 Bears. Yes, Terry benefited from have great weapons and a great D, but most SB winning QBs have as well. Yes, Terry's stats aren't all that impressive by today's standards, but in his day a 3000 yard season was the benchmark, not 4000 as we see today. Also 50% connect rate was the Mendosa line, not the 60% we've risen to today. His TD:INT ratio? Yes, overall it is not great, but if you draw a line thru 1974, the first of the Steeler/Bradshaw SB run, in Flug's list, and look above and below that line, the numbers are clearly different. Not exactly a light-switch going on scenario, but close to it... and his career stats were pretty much doomed in his first two seasons when he threw a combined 46 INTs vs. only 19 TDs. Bottom line he grew into the job... as did Noll. There aren't many parallels in today's game. I'd love to see the PTG press' headlines in '70 and '71. I doubt they were urging "patience". HoF worthy career? I lean towards "yes".. much on the weight of his then unprecedented 4 rings as part of the undisputed team of the 70's. (Only the 'Boys can really contest that and fuck them.) Personally I can't hold his HoF teammates against him. Trying hard to think of a HoF QB without at least one HoF WR teammate... and many also benefited from HoF RBs and/or strong Ds to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 HoF worthy career? I lean towards "yes".. much on the weight of his then unprecedented 4 rings as part of the undisputed team of the 70's. (Only the 'Boys can really contest that and fuck them.) Personally I can't hold his HoF teammates against him. Trying hard to think of a HoF QB without at least one HoF WR teammate... and many also benefited from HoF RBs and/or strong Ds to boot. Tour....while it is true that the Steelers were the "Team of the Decade" of the 1970s....point in fact is that they had the closest race of all decades to be declared that. Recall that I do a thread along these lines after each major league sports season (except hockey). Here are the results of those "team of the decade" "races" for each decade. Again, note Steelers/Cowboys 1970s is the closest race: Past Teams of the Decades, utilizing the same basic method: 2000s: Patriots 41 pts. Runnersup: Steelers 28 pts, Colts 25 pts 1990s: Cowboys 37 pts. Runnersup: Bills 28, Broncos and 49ers 25 1980s: 49ers 46 pts. Runnersup: Redskins 30, Raiders 23 1970s: Steelers 48 pts. Runnersup: Cowboys 46 pts, Dolphins 30 pts 1960s: Packers 56 pts. Runnersup: Chargers 34, Oilers 30 (AFL teams) 1950s: Browns 57 pts. Runnersup: Lions 36 pts, Rams and Giants 25 pts 1940s: Bears 46 pts. Runnersup: Browns 40 pts, Redskins 28 1930s: Packers 52 pts. Runnersup: Giants 44, Bears 32 1920s: Bears 43 pts. Runnersup: Bulldogs 30, Packers and Yellowjackets 19 (Patriots leading in the 2010s so far) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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