The Core Group Has Increased

[Mudfly]

Maybe you were, don't speak for all of us .

Thats why I used the word "some"....

 

I oops on that too, as I was thinking millenials, but mine were actually gen Y.....(currently kicking ass and taking #'s)......

 

Do you have millenials?.....I thought you were much older than that.....

[TexasAg1969]

And to think we gave them the greatest gift of all------------Supertrump. With slight the amendments of (alternative) Truth, (in)Justice and the (Russian) Way.

Faster than a landslide victory, more powerful than an investigative counsel, able to heap huge lies in a single sentence..............yes it's Supertrump.

 

Mild mannered reporter for Fox News

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecTuW_KU7YE

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Thats why I used the word "some"....

 

I oops on that too, as I was thinking millenials, but mine were actually gen Y.....(currently kicking ass and taking #'s)......

 

Do you have millenials?.....I thought you were much older than that.....

Nah man. I have two sons gen X? And my daughter is a millenial.

[The Gipper]

Maybe a bitching thread or forum would be helpful here? Eh?

 

Kind of like a Family Feud "Millenials vs Boomers"?

You mean like where one side is spoiled rotten to the core and blames the other side for all their problems...which really are not problems, and where the other side's response is simply: Grow the fuck up! You mean like that?

[The Gipper]

I guess I will post this just so that we know what we are talking about:

 

eneration Name Births
Start Births
End Youngest
Age Today* Oldest Age
Today*

The Lost Generation -
The Generation of 1914 1882 1900

The Interbellum Generation 1901 1909

The GI Generation 1910 1928

The Silent Generation 1928 1945

Baby Boomer Generation 1946 1964

Generation X (Baby Bust) 1965 1982

Generation Y -
The Millennial -
Gen Next 1982 2000

Generation Z 2000 2018

Gen Alpha

(*if still alive today)

I have 2 Ys. (both of whom seem to not fit their generation in many ways)

[The Gipper]

On this subject there was a great guest on America Coast to Coast just last night talking about demographics and generational patterns:

 

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/upside-kenneth-w-gronbach/1125191219/2676538528118?st=PLA&sid=BNB_DRS_Marketplace+Shopping+greatbookprices_00000000&2sid=Google_&sourceId=PLGoP24181

 

While others predict somewhat doom and gloom for the future of America, he believes just the opposite.

[mjp28]

You mean like where one side is spoiled rotten to the core and blames the other side for all their problems...which really are not problems, and where the other side's response is simply: Grow the fuck up! You mean like that?

Yeah a real "it's not my fault" about anything in life forum hosted by a comedian or former judge.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

You mean like where one side is spoiled rotten to the core and blames the other side for all their problems...which really are not problems, and where the other side's response is simply: Grow the fuck up! You mean like that?

You mean where one side incompetently dropped a nuke on essentially everything, including the economy, then sits back on their fat asses and collects their social security benefits and gets even fatter? You mean like that?

 

I also find it hilarious that the older generations call milliennials "spoiled rotten to their core" yet completely disregard the fact that they would have had to be the ones to spoil them. But then again, what do you expect from a generation that is, on average, less intelligent than mine?

[mjp28]

....I also find it hilarious that the older generations call milliennials "spoiled rotten to their core" yet completely disregard the fact that they would have had to be the ones to spoil them. But then again, what do you expect from a generation that is, on average, less intelligent than mine?

Good luck trying to prove that one, today's schools are a joke compared to past decades. Staffing, crime, dropouts, computer aided EVERYTHING to make it so freakin easy to push students along just to "graduate".

 

Most probably have never seen the inside of a library.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Good luck trying to prove that one, today's schools are a joke compared to past decades. Staffing, crime, dropouts, computer aided EVERYTHING to make it so freakin easy to push students along just to "graduate".

 

Most probably have never seen the inside of a library.

It's pretty easy to prove - average intelligence test scores have been steadily increasing for well over 50 years.

 

High school graduation rates are higher, college enrollment is higher and the millennial generation is handily considered to be the most intelligent generation thus far.

 

Granted, to acknowledge that without acknowledging the foundation laid by our predecessors would do a disservice to the older generations. We are able to achieve more because we have a better starting point than those who came before us.

 

However, that doesn't mean that we have it easier per se - tuition rates are exponentially higher than they were for past generations, while average household income hasn't grown at a commensurate rate.

 

TL;DR - This generation has higher average intelligence and higher graduation rates, yet education comes at a much higher cost.

[The Gipper]

You mean where one side incompetently dropped a nuke on essentially everything, including the economy, then sits back on their fat asses and collects their social security benefits and gets even fatter? You mean like that?

 

I also find it hilarious that the older generations call milliennials "spoiled rotten to their core" yet completely disregard the fact that they would have had to be the ones to spoil them. But then again, what do you expect from a generation that is, on average, less intelligent than mine?

You mean where one group is completely ignorant about history, the economy and again....wants to blame the fact that they don't all get participation trophies for just being alive, and complains, complains, complains.

And who...if they are more intelligent... fail to demonstrate it or apply it.

[mjp28]

It's pretty easy to prove - average intelligence test scores have been steadily increasing for well over 50 years.

High school graduation rates are higher, college enrollment is higher and the millennial generation is handily considered to be the most intelligent generation thus far.

Granted, to acknowledge that without acknowledging the foundation laid by our predecessors would do a disservice to the older generations. We are able to achieve more because we have a better starting point than those who came before us.

However, that doesn't mean that we have it easier per se - tuition rates are exponentially higher than they were for past generations, while average household income hasn't grown at a commensurate rate.

TL;DR - This generation has higher average intelligence and higher graduation rates, yet education comes at a much higher cost.

You must also factor in the quality of education, the job market and other issues rather than how many young people now just go to higher education because good entry level jobs with benefits just are not plentiful as they were in past decades in America.

 

This is why there are more students with crushing student loans that must have advanced degrees just to compete for the better jobs. Many students without a good education or the dropouts are stuck in the general labor pool working menial often part time jobs with little or no benefits and even multiple jobs just to try to get anywhere.

 

Despite low unemployment rates the unemployed and underemployed are very underreported, I sure wouldn't want to be stuck in that demographic.

 

The week I got my undergraduate degree in 1975 I bought my first house, my student debt was $0 I had a great job for 6 years with full benefits, a pension with a Fortune 500 company that I started when I was 18 years old.

 

When I got my MBA in 1985 I built my next home again with $0 student debt and had already moved on to better jobs with great companies. Not that I'm a special case but these opportunities do not really exist now in today's global work environment, just an excepted fact of life today.

 

So comparing apples and oranges can always be tricky when comparing today's Millenials to the Boomers or the Boomers to the prior generations but I will generalize (sometimes a dangerous thing to do) and say today's "kids" unless you're in Silicon Valley have it much harder than ever.

[The Gipper]

It's pretty easy to prove - average intelligence test scores have been steadily increasing for well over 50 years.

 

High school graduation rates are higher, college enrollment is higher and the millennial generation is handily considered to be the most intelligent generation thus far.

 

Granted, to acknowledge that without acknowledging the foundation laid by our predecessors would do a disservice to the older generations. We are able to achieve more because we have a better starting point than those who came before us.

 

However, that doesn't mean that we have it easier per se - tuition rates are exponentially higher than they were for past generations, while average household income hasn't grown at a commensurate rate.

 

TL;DR - This generation has higher average intelligence and higher graduation rates, yet education comes at a much higher cost.

Again, you, like the other person I have had this argument with do not care about the facts or the dynamics of history.

Issues that exist in this country are primarily class issues, not generational issues.

(Yes...we know that education comes at a much higher cost....who the hell do you think has been paying for it).

While I understand that capitalism works...more or less...it does create a far less egalitarian society. (which...admittedly we baby boomers had more of growing up).

When we grew up, the CEOs of major companies made about 25-30 times the wages of the average worker in a company. Now that ratio is more like 500-1. Yes, when we grew up, a family could be a one earner family. Not since about the 80s when the Gordon Gekko "Greed is Good" philosophy came into purview. The failures associated with this economy came not because of generational issues...but because of just greedy people of whatever generation.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/robert-reich-whats-really-destroying-american-middle-class

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

You mean where one group is completely ignorant about history, the economy and again....wants to blame the fact that they don't all get participation trophies for just being alive, and complains, complains, complains.

And who...if they are more intelligent... fail to demonstrate it or apply it.

 

Your unwillingness to acknowledge or (probably more likely) inability to comprehend does not equal a failure to demonstrate.

 

But I thank you for the 300 years you served as a glorified mediator.

[TexasAg1969]

And all this from the generation that was so smart that they had to add 100 points to all of their Math SAT scores so they could maintain the average near 500. LOL!

[mjp28]

The results again raise questions about the global competitiveness of the US educational system.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-of-math-science-reading-skills-2016-12

 

On a press call on Tuesday, Jon Schnur, executive chairman of America Achieves, said we need to make dramatic progress in showing educational improvement for students.

 

When looking at a comparable sample of countries that participated in the PISA exam in both 2012 (the last time the test was administered) and 2015, the US ranking fell to 35th from 28th in math. The US underperformed the OECD average in math......

 

35th in math? Not much better in reading and science? Oh yeah, GO MYLENALES!

[mjp28]

From the PEW research center, it gets worse.

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

 

....These results likely won’t surprise too many people. In a 2015 Pew Research Center report, only 29% of Americans rated their country’s K-12 education in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (known as STEM) as above average or the best in the world. Scientists were even more critical: A companion survey of members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science found that just 16% called U.S. K-12 STEM education the best or above average; 46%, in contrast, said K-12 STEM in the U.S. was below average.......

 

No wonder companies get visas for foreign workers for the $100,000+ jobs in America.

 

So who's better generation wise?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

You must also factor in the quality of education, the job market and other issues rather than how many young people now just go to higher education because good entry level jobs with benefits just are not plentiful as they were in past decades in America.

 

This is why there are more students with crushing student loans that must have advanced degrees just to compete for the better jobs. Many students without a good education or the dropouts are stuck in the general labor pool working menial often part time jobs with little or no benefits and even multiple jobs just to try to get anywhere.

 

Despite low unemployment rates the unemployed and underemployed are very underreported, I sure wouldn't want to be stuck in that demographic.

 

The week I got my undergraduate degree in 1975 I bought my first house, my student debt was $0 I had a great job for 6 years with full benefits, a pension with a Fortune 500 company that I started when I was 18 years old.

 

When I got my MBA in 1985 I built my next home again with $0 student debt and had already moved on to better jobs with great companies. Not that I'm a special case but these opportunities do not really exist now in today's global work environment, just an excepted fact of life today.

 

So comparing apples and oranges can always be tricky when comparing today's Millenials to the Boomers or the Boomers to the prior generations but I will generalize (sometimes a dangerous thing to do) and say today's "kids" unless you're in Silicon Valley have it much harder than ever.

 

I agree - it is a comparison that is not easy to make. There are too many variables when it comes to measuring intelligence and education to be able to form a concrete cause-effect argument that covers all bases.

 

The proportion of 25 to 29 year-olds with a college degree is about 12% higher for our generation than Boomers - but at what cost? It is nearly impossible to make it through a four-year undergrad program in today's society without accruing some form of debt - student or credit card (often both). Course loads often prohibit full time employment and, even still, wages earned from full-time employment would barely scratch the surface of an average four-year public school tuition. A recent graduate's average student loan debt has risen between 10-15 thousand dollars....over the last 15 years.

 

Futher, housing costs, while being semi-decent in comparison to what they were in the 2005-2013 range, are still exponentially higher when compared with average income for this generation than Boomers. An average new home purchased in 1980 (with the land) set someone back about $65k. Today, an average new home (with the land) is closer to $350k. Adjusted for inflation, that is still almost twice as expensive...yet millennials are earning anywhere from 20% - 25% less than a Boomer earned at a similar stage of life.

 

The lazy narrative is the last, dying breath of a tired and factually incorrect argument. The truth is that this generation widely came of age in one of the worst recessions in American history...and it wasn't our generation who caused it. On average, this generation is infinitely more productive - up to 75% more productive than our Boomer counterparts at this stage of life. This is due to the technological advancements of our society in comparison to when they were at a similar stage - we are infinitely connected via computers and smartphones and, as such, are simultaneously able to achieve more in less time yet also almost expected to bring our work home. Despite this, wages have not grown at anything close to a commensurate rate, with only roughly a 10% increase in wages since 1975.

 

In short - it's tougher to achieve a college degree in today's society, despite the fact that more people are doing so than in previous generations. Student loan debt is snowballing and its a foregone conclusion that many, if not most, of these students will fail to repay these debts. Millennials are paid less despite being much more productive. College degrees are worth less, home prices are ridiculous, and jobs are much harder to come by - yet we're the lazy ones.

 

All that said, I feel most sorry for Gen X'ers, because their pockets were hit hardest by a recession that they mostly didn't cause. Millennials have most of their working lives ahead of them but many Gen. Xer's were knocked firmly out of being able to retire when they were just about at the age they should be retiring.

[mjp28]

....The lazy narrative is the last, dying breath of a tired and factually incorrect argument. The truth is that this generation widely came of age in one of the worst recessions in American history...and it wasn't our generation who caused it.....

Not true, the mortgage "crisis" lasted what 2008-2009 and the following stock market crash, (oh I've been in the market since 1972) then took off like a rocket in the best recovery ever. The market bottomed on 03/03/09 and went straight up if you stayed in it you made out like a bandit.

 

The 1929 crash and Great Depression lasted over two decades followed by a world war which actually broke the depression.

 

I've been through about 7 big market corrections in my Boomer lifetime 2008 was scary but to blame this generations dismal education performance or any other thing on that is a big stretch.

 

If you haven't figured it out it's hard if not impossible to argue this any more that which sports teams are better over the decades, too many variables and opinions involved.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Not true, the mortgage "crisis" lasted what 2008-2009 and the following stock market crash, (oh I've been in the market since 1972) then took off like a rocket in the best recovery ever. The market bottomed on 03/03/09 and went straight up if you stayed in it you made out like a bandit.

 

The 1929 crash and Great Depression lasted over two decades followed by a world war which actually broke the depression.

 

I've been through about 7 big market corrections in my Boomer lifetime 2008 was scary but to blame this generations dismal education performance or any other thing on that is a big stretch.

 

If you haven't figured it out it's hard if not impossible to argue this any more that which sports teams are better over the decades, too many variables and opinions involved.

I'm not blaming the education performance on the recession, I am saying that the recession was a causing factor in the amount of debt and affordable housing we currently see. The global education comparison was a point you brought up that I've yet to address, I've been sticking to generational comparisons in the US.

 

I am not up to date on the education comparisons globally so I can't formulate any basis for an argument as of yet, but if standardized intelligence levels are higher across the board in America, yet we're falling further behind in global education, it would stand to reason that the curriculum should be called into question and not necessarily the students.

 

After all, it would show that we are doing less with more.

 

Teachers are woefully underpaid and many are extremely unqualified. Teaching has, unfortunately, become a fallback profession for many because it's rather easy to obtain a bachelors in education and the barrier for entry is much lower in the workplace.

 

I'd be interested to see how much of our GDP we allot to education in comparison with some of the global leaders in education. If they are comparable rates, then the problem would then lie with either WHAT or HOW we are teaching our youth.

[mjp28]

....After all, it would show that we are doing less with more.

 

Teachers are woefully underpaid and many are extremely unqualified. Teaching has, unfortunately, become a fallback profession for many because it's rather easy to obtain a bachelors in education and the barrier for entry is much lower in the workplace.....

Automation and outsourcing is key with productivity, a few smart guys replacing many not so smart guys.

 

And we have two elementary school teachers who are neighbors one newer makes $63,000 and one with tenure makes $70,000, that's not woeful....and it's not college level courses either! You can go online and look up any teacher's salary in Ohio.

 

Old saying "never confuse education with intelligence" and I'd not prefer to go into work ethic if you know what I mean.

 

It's been a good discussion catch you later.

[The Gipper]

Not true, the mortgage "crisis" lasted what 2008-2009 and the following stock market crash, (oh I've been in the market since 1972) then took off like a rocket in the best recovery ever. The market bottomed on 03/03/09 and went straight up if you stayed in it you made out like a bandit.

 

The 1929 crash and Great Depression lasted over two decades followed by a world war which actually broke the depression.

 

I've been through about 7 big market corrections in my Boomer lifetime 2008 was scary but to blame this generations dismal education performance or any other thing on that is a big stretch.

 

If you haven't figured it out it's hard if not impossible to argue this any more that which sports teams are better over the decades, too many variables and opinions involved.

The real estate market crash of @2007 was primarily caused by the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act that was enacted in Depression era to curtail banking abuses that were largely responsible for that crash. They essentially worked for 70 years, until the banks had enough clout to have them repealed in the late 90s. Then they went back to the same bad practices...which caused the bubble and the Great Recession. Dodd-Frank was then passed to reinstitute a lot of the controls that were in place under Glass-Steagall. Now, Mr. Delirium Tremors is making noises about again repealing these protections so as to not "hamstring" the banks in their practices.

[The Gipper]

I'm not blaming the education performance on the recession, I am saying that the recession was a causing factor in the amount of debt and affordable housing we currently see. The global education comparison was a point you brought up that I've yet to address, I've been sticking to generational comparisons in the US.

 

I am not up to date on the education comparisons globally so I can't formulate any basis for an argument as of yet, but if standardized intelligence levels are higher across the board in America, yet we're falling further behind in global education, it would stand to reason that the curriculum should be called into question and not necessarily the students.

 

After all, it would show that we are doing less with more.

 

Teachers are woefully underpaid and many are extremely unqualified. Teaching has, unfortunately, become a fallback profession for many because it's rather easy to obtain a bachelors in education and the barrier for entry is much lower in the workplace.

 

I'd be interested to see how much of our GDP we allot to education in comparison with some of the global leaders in education. If they are comparable rates, then the problem would then lie with either WHAT or HOW we are teaching our youth.

I am not sure about the figures on how much GDP we allot in comparison to other countries....but I do know that the State of Ohio ranks I believe like 45th in the affordability in education among US states. The Rs that have controlled this state have decimated the education system here. It is one big factor in why Ohio has suffered population loss and a brain drain. The charter schools they promoted and propped up here are a disgrace...yet they continue to want to funnel money to these profit ventures...at the expense of the public and secondary schools in this state.

https://www.philanthropyohio.org/sites/default/files/College%20Afordability_2.1lr_FINAL.pdf