Observations from today's game.

[Zombo]

Think of it this way: If Joe Haden got hurt yesterday and had to miss the rest of the season, how you feel about our defense's chance for success?

 

Z

[WalterWhite]

Think of it this way: If Joe Haden got hurt yesterday and had to miss the rest of the season, how you feel about our defense's chance for success?

 

Z

 

We'd be fucked Zombo.

 

Look my philosophy is this...

 

A secondary is only as good as the front 7 allows it to be.

 

If you give a QB all day to throw, you could have Darrell Fucking Green and Deion Sanders as your CB's and someone is catching the ball.

 

If you can't stop the run then the secondary almost becomes irrelevant.

 

I just think there are times Haden gets himself into a bad position and loses ground and get's beat.

[hoorta]

Find anyone who can shut down graham, christ, he has 2 td and 10 rec almost every week. He is the epitome of you cant stop him...contain him. Quit the haden bashing.

 

^+1

 

Grahm is 6'7 and no one in the league can cover him. Didn't Haden completely shut down AJ Green last year? I think the only receiver I can think of that normally dominates him is Brown. That's one receiver out of all of them.

 

Exactly- these clowns think Haden's average because he couldn't cover Graham one on one? The guy only had 86 receptions for 1,200+ yards last year- he made the Pro Bowl for a reason. Any of you dorks ever try playing basketball against someone who's 8" taller than you? It's not pretty. To paraphrase what was said about Le Bron in BB- Graham is too fast for linebackers, and too big for corners. FYI- the Browns don't have a player on their team that's 6' 7" like Graham.

 

If you want to blame anyone, blame Pettine for not giving Joe some safety help. It was a trade off, they shut out Colston.

 

True, but when has Haden been Great?

 

He's not the guy that other teams avoid.

 

As said previously, he does a great job on AJ Green- and Green is for sure one of the top 10 wideouts in the NFL.

 

 

Agree. I'd love to hear who would take 5 CBs OVER Joe Haden, if they were drafting a team. Try it... Can you name 5 you'd rather have on your team?

 

Doubt it.

 

Revis, Peterson, and Sherman. That's about it.

[Clevfan4life]

The Browns would have limited Grahams impact on the game if they had continued to wave their sacks in his facemask like they did in the 1st quarter and most of the 2nd. I understand with Mingo being hurt that our OLB'ers got a little tired later in the game. That's where some schemes need to be brought in like maybe moving Armonty to OLB in some situations so that Kruger and Sheard aren't playing every snap. We really should be grooming a 4th OLB and develop the kind of depth at that position that Indy has. If he could do it, I wouldn't mind seeing Armonty out there...any situations where he stays on the field can only be viewed positively as he's our best pass rusher. If we can find ways to have Taylor, Rubin, Mugshot and Armonty on the field at the same time.....Browns will have one of the most feared front 7's in football.

[Mudfly]

Here is a good article comparing Patterson, Sherman and Haden.....(cut and paste). I read several "grading" sites to see where these guys REALLY rate, based upon their #'s, and Sherman pretty much rates the best becasue no one throws his way, but Patterson is waaaaaay behind Haden. Haden, however,. rates #1 based upon what he's done WHEN the ball is thrown....

 

Richard Sherman has made his belief clear: in the NFL, respect is only shown when a team decides to give you the money that you are worth. Sherman had been quoted saying things of this sort many times, but it had been a lot more frequent of late, since he was a Super Bowl champion, still on his rookie contract, and by consensus (and his own anointing) one of if not the best cornerbacks in the game. Well a few days ago, the Seattle Seahawks made it very clear to Sherman just how much they respected him by signing him to a 4 year deal worth $57.4M with $40M in guarantees. This made him the highest paid cornerback in the game. However, his reign did not last long, as the Cleveland Browns signed Joe Haden to a 5 year deal worth $68M with $45M in guarantees, making him the highest paid cornerback in the game. But Haden may not want to get too attached to that title, as Patrick Peterson is now out looking for an extension. He has made it very clear that he thinks he is a better corner than Sherman and thus, as Sherman would put it, he deserves a little bit more “respect.”

When asked whether or not he thinks he is worth more than Sherman, Peterson responded, “We’ll see, got to ask the Cardinals. I mean, I think I am, but at the end of the day both sides have to agree to terms and we’ll see what those terms are and hopefully sooner than later.” For those of you who have trouble reading between the lines, that would be a resounding yes. Sherman, in typical Sherman fashion, responded on Twitter with this:

Credit: @RSherman_25,

Clearly, he disagrees with Peterson’s assessment. Now don’t go and start thinking that I am going to bash on Sherman. I love his game and I love his attitude. I love that he has confidence in himself and that he can back up his talk with a heck of a walk. All that being said, let’s give serious consideration to the fact that maybe Peterson is just blowing smoke. Maybe he and even Joe Haden are better cornerbacks than Sherman. Sure, interceptions are a vital component in the makings of a good corner back, but that’s not the only thing that corner backs need to do.

Credit: Zimbio

Football Outsiders is a site with a lot of advanced metrics on different players and teams. One such metric is adjusted yards per pass, which is essentially a measure of yards per pass that also takes into account sacks and losses of yards, as well as whether the pass resulted in a touchdown or interception. When you do all the calculations behind the screen, you find that Joe Haden ranked 7^th in adjusted yards per pass, Patrick Peterson ranked 13^th, and Richard Sherman failed to crack the top 15. Another stat that Football Outsiders calculates is adjusted success rate, which essentially tracks how many plays a player made which stopped their opponent from gaining yards or “having success on.” Joe Haden is the only of the trio of defensive backs to crack the top 15.

Going back to the more basic stats, last year, Sherman did lead the bunch in interceptions with 8, Haden and Patterson both had 3. However, Haden led them all in pass deflections which are nearly as valuable with 20. Sherman had 16 and Patterson had 13. So by a lot of metrics, it seems like Haden can be considered better than Sherman. Yes, Sherman was targeted the least of any corner, but a lot of the stats adjusted for targets still favor Haden and, to some extent, Peterson. I am less willing to claim that Peterson is better, but at worst, he is close and plays with a less talented defensive pass rush. According to Football outsiders, the Seahawks rank 7^th in defensive pass rush, while the Cardinals are 12^th and the Browns an even lower 21^st, making Haden’s success even more impressive.

Credit: Fox Sports

The jury is out on the Peterson vs. Sherman debate, but I would at least be willing to say that Joe Haden deserved his contract, putting up arguably better numbers on a defense with much less overall talent surrounding him. While Sherman may not want to admit it, maybe Haden and Peterson are worth the “respect” that their teams are bestowing upon them.

[D Bone]

The run defense is my main concern. So far, it's been awful at best.

[hoorta]

What I take away from this game is the team didn't quit. It's said you have to learn how to win, and build up confidence. Yes, there's 14 games left, and no reason to celebrate like we won the Super Bowl. But las home opener win was 10 years ago.

 

Anyone think old Pat Shur-loss wouldn't have kicked a field goal on that 4th and one?

 

Yes D Bone, we need to improve the run D- a lot.

 

And Atenears, it makes the 200 mile drive back to Dayton a hell of a lot more pleasant when we win. I would not have been a happy camper last night spending 90 minutes to drive 8 miles because they had I-71 shut down to one lane for construction, if they had lost.

 

EDIT: PS Dansby is a HUGE upgrade over Jackson. This years draft class has the potential to be one of the best ever.

 

PPS- looks like RG Knee is going to miss some significant time. I rolled my ankle like that once, and I'd bet the ranch he has a torn ligament or two. I'm thinking I should write a comment on Walter Football if he still thinks Griffin was worth three #1s and a second. We dodged a major bullet on that one. Essentially, it's who's going to have the better career now, RG III, or Manziel?

[WalterWhite]

I def agree we would use the safety help (especially from Whitner) and could use a pass rushing defensive lineman.

 

I also think an ILB would be a great addition for the future.

[Mudfly]

 

I also think an ILB would be a great addition for the future.

..me too....Kirksey and Dansby were great adds, but Dansby only has a few ticks left......start developing his replacement now....

[Tour2ma]

Actually Joe TV viewer has a much better view then being at the game. Close ups, replays etc. But Haden didn't look good yesterday or against Pittsburgh IMO.

I'll disagree here. I actually mainly attend the games just so I can see the DB/WR action. TV gives you the tunnel vision view only unless the ball is thrown downfield, but so much more is seen away from the ball.

Kumbaya moment? Agree ATE...

 

TV only shows a CB's failures or successes... and the former out number the latter for even the best CBs. TV rarely shows the bulk of a CB's day because if he is doing his job, then the ball is not thrown in his direction.

 

And the TV camera follows the ball...

[Tour2ma]

I also think an ILB would be a great addition for the future.

..me too....Kirksey and Dansby were great adds, but Dansby only has a few ticks left......start developing his replacement now....

... me three... but also put me down for a three-down OLB, please...

[Erie Dawg]

No one on either team got called for DB holding,touching, grabbing.

New Orleans in Q1 8:09 P.ROBINSON Defensive pass interference.

New Orleans in Q4 00:13 P. ROBINSON defensive holding.

[miktoxic]

man we coulda beat the seahawks by 17 and people would still have something to bitch about.

 

since the manziel story has been put to bed i guess the only thing walter has to complain about now is our pro bowl CB.

 

and you're wrong about him just like you were wrong about manziel.

 

HA!

[WalterWhite]

man we coulda beat the seahawks by 17 and people would still have something to bitch about.

 

since the manziel story has been put to bed i guess the only thing walter has to complain about now is our pro bowl CB.

 

and you're wrong about him just like you were wrong about manziel.

 

HA!

 

I just call it as I see it and make observations from the game. If you don't like them you aren't forced to read them. It's all opinion.

 

Some good, some bad.

 

What was I wrong about with Manziel?

[miktoxic]

What was I wrong about with Manziel?

 

wow. really?

[Clevfan4life]

if we're all in agreement that run D sucks....than we kind of have to be looking at the ILB'er play no? Run defense is ultimately those guys responsibility. I want ILB'ers like Ray Lewis that take it personally when a RB goes over 100 yds on him.

[WalterWhite]

I want ILB'ers like Ray Lewis that take it personally when a RB goes over 100 yds on him.

 

Dude will rip your dick off and not think twice. He's #52 from The U and his name is Denzel Perryman

 

[ATENEARS]

Speaking of Linebackers, was focused on D'Qwell tonight during the MNF game and man am I ever glad to see him wearing a different jersey. I wonder if his mommy knows that he pretends to be an NFL LB?

 

In 50 plays, I seen him read 1 maybe 2 plays correctly, although one he had no choice as a hole opened in front of him the size of a truck and it was just him and the ball carrier left in the middle of the field. He made the tackle, but another handful of times the ball was ran right at his spot and he was chasing butterflies elsewhere and jumping on the pile after the fact. Of course, the announcers credited him with a few of those tackles (sigh).

 

The dude is out there directing his teammates prior to every snap, yet gets lost with each snap.

 

Most over-rated "teams leading tackler" in the history of the NFL.

[Tour2ma]

Most over-rated "teams leading tackler" in the history of the NFL.

Agree... Much happier with Dansby as a bridge to whomever.

 

Take away DQ's tackles after runs of 5 or more yards and his total drops dramatically.

 

I never saw him as an ILB... OLB maybe, should have had a good speed rush and could definitely string out a sweep, but not an ILB.

[WalterWhite]

Agree... Much happier with Dansby as a bridge to whomever.

 

Take away DQ's tackles after runs of 5 or more yards and his total drops dramatically.

 

I never saw him as an ILB... OLB maybe, should have had a good speed rush and could definitely string out a sweep, but not an ILB.

 

He actually had a great game tonight and a huge stop for them.

 

But Dansby is far superior.

[ATENEARS]

 

He actually had a great game tonight and a huge stop for them.

 

But Dansby is far superior.

 

He had two decent tackles, both on plays where the Offense left him completely unaccounted for ... some threat. The rest of his play aligned with exactly how he "lead the team in tackles" while playing for the Browns ... ambulance chaser.

[Tour2ma]

man we coulda beat the seahawks by 17 and people would still have something to bitch about.

Hypothetically it should have been by 18... should have gone for 2.