TomSelleck Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 ...um I hate pointing this out and all, since I'm a "who the fuck are you" person, but Hoyer is 5-1 as a starter for our team. That's beyond fucking huge!!!!!!!!!¡¡!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomSelleck Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 ...and Gilbert played awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Tj ward couldn't defend the pass very well. And he missed a lot of tackles but I was still sorry to lose him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Haden gave up some disappointing plays. He wasn't great vs Graham or Antonio brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Big to be fair rivers crushed Sherman today too. No CB is infallible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Big to be fair rivers crushed Sherman today too. No CB is infallible True, but when has Haden been Great? He's not the guy that other teams avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Haden had a chance to stop a RB for a 1 yard loss on 3rd and 1, and he failed. Haden got picked on all day. The Saints made sure Haden was on Graham, because they knew Haden couldn't cover him. So-called shutdown CB, don't get picked on like Haden does. Haden is a good CB, but he is nowhere near a shutdown CB. So-called shutdown CB's either make plays or they don't get thrown against, and Joe Haden isn't either. Teams LOOK to throw on him, and they make plays against him all day.. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11529259/san-diego-chargers-wr-keenan-allen-richard-sherman-seattle-seahawks-not-really-shutdown-corner?ex_cid=espnapi_public Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong... Haden is a great CB... no questions asked. BUT, every DB is going to have a tough matchup here and there. Same goes with superstars at any position, in any sport. Even the greats get beat once in a while, but it's what they do as a whole that makes all the difference. Haden was "picked on?" Please. He gave up a couple passes to WRs, but no big plays. He only gave up points to Graham b/c it's a horrible matchup, but Pettine believed if he was going 1-1 against Graham, the only guy he could put on him was Haden. It wasn't the Saints picking on him. Even Sherman, Revis, Patterson, etc. give up plays from time-to-time. It's the 2nd hardest position in all of sports... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 True, but when has Haden been Great? He's not the guy that other teams avoid. You're kidding right? When has he been great? 2013 - Week 1 - Mike Wallace - 1 catch 15 yards Week 6 - Calvin Johnson - 3 catches 25 yards Week 11 - AJ Green - 2 catches 7 yards That's pretty damn great if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 No offense, but I can't think of a single corner that matches up well with Graham split out wide. There is a reason the guy is dominant as a pass catcher. Putting anyone out there with a man assignment and no safety help is a + for the Saints offense every time. That said, the Oline is building good chemistry and does very well opening holes for the ground game. West and Crowell have been very positive so far. Obviously a bit early to annoint them as Mack and Byner, but keep this up and it will be a 1-2 punch that brings back fond memories. Donte- man, the second he left San Fran he's been different. Hasn't had a chance to hit anyone and roam. Can't quite get around the ball and is more of a liability in deep coverage than Ward. Gilbert looked a bit better. He's still a rook, you're going to have theses ups and downs. Gipson is the most underrated FS in football. As for the defense getting "push". Not on the interior they aren't. Billy Winn had a couple nice moments, but I don't like him with the weight he's put on. Taylor and Rubin got fucking destroyed all game. There is zero excuse for this run defense to be this bad. I'd like to see some more of Hughes and Armonty. Desmond Bryant was supposed to be the pass rushing interior lineman- not sure what happened to his Oakland form, but he needs to get back too it. The lack of a vertical pass game handcuffs this offense in the worst way. I think you could see something very, very good in Cleveland getting Cameron 100% and having Gordon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 My biggest observation was the fact we're playing with a "TEAM-first" attitude. It seems the offense is feeding off the defense and vice versa. It's fun to watch. "Play like a Brown" as Pettine has been saying all off-season... Awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 so all you geniuses would not have paid him top 5 cb money and let him walk? DB is the hardest position to play nowadays considering the league let's every WR push off right before the catch but they never make that call. none of you working from your mom's birth canal to berea with all the training, hard work and clean off the field issues couldn't lick the sweat off haden's jock even though you'd love to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimdawg Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Ok, so we beat one of the most talented, best coached teams in the nfl today so ... I dont know else to say other than "The Mike Pettine era is going well" No Gordon, No Cameron, No Mingo, No Tate .. we were better ...does anybody else feel like ... FINALLY! ^This exactly! At least to me, there is a certain kinda swag that this team is building on. I hope this is the start of some good times ahead... KRUGER is finally earning that big deal he got. Even if he's not the one making the tackle/play, he's having all kinds of influence so far. Nice response from Gilbert after a bad game #1. Everyone needs to slow their roll on Haden. He didnt have a preseason and theres still 14 games left, he'll be fine. Ben Tate better have somethin serious when he comes back cause CROWEST® looks like they have somethin special goin on. The Oline played a great game, seemed to be dominant for the most part. Congratulations to coach Pettine for his 1st victory. They called a great game, im really surprised nobody gave him a Gatorade bath, he deserved one. Lastly, i didnt like the JF thing. I feel like they got lucky on that drive. After JF had his play Hoyer made a big play on 3rd down to extend the drive and led to points i beleive, but if they dont convert they lose points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I do blame him for that. He hit the guy with his helmet, lowered his head and didn't wrap the guy up. That was my first impression as well, but after 2nd look not so much. I was at the game and I sit in the endzone. I can and do watch the DB play,,,,,,,,, Joe Haden gets picked on more then ANY DB on our team Are you saying that every play we are on Defense you watch Joe from the snap to the whistle? If yes, then hats off and excuse me because that takes a lot of discipline... and a friend to tell you what happened on the rest of the field. But if no, then you are no better judge of Joe's play than Joe TV-Viewer. ...um I hate pointing this out and all, since I'm a "who the fuck are you" person, but Hoyer is 5-1 as a starter for our team. That's beyond fucking huge!!!!!!!!!¡¡!!!!!!!!!! pssst... 4-1 for "our" team as a starter... if you give him credit for the Bills win last year... which I don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomSelleck Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 He did start that game though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Haden shut down some of the best receivers in the NFL last year, some of the stuff being spoken about him in here is mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 That was my first impression as well, but after 2nd look not so much. Are you saying that every play we are on Defense you watch Joe from the snap to the whistle? If yes, then hats off and excuse me because that takes a lot of discipline... and a friend to tell you what happened on the rest of the field. But if no, then you are no better judge of Joe's play than Joe TV-Viewer. pssst... 4-1 for "our" team as a starter... if you give him credit for the Bills win last year... which I don't... Actually Joe TV viewer has a much better view then being at the game. Close ups, replays etc. But Haden didn't look good yesterday or against Pittsburgh IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Here's the thing with Jimmy Graham. You have to live with the guy getting the 10-12 yard completions across the middle. It's frustrating at the time, but a great TE with the ability to "box out" defenders on those sit down routes is going to win almost every time. I've heard it argued and tend to agree those types of TE routes with a good TE and QB combo are the second hardest pass to defend after the back shoulder fade. With that being said, the only thing that really pissed me off was how we covered Jimmy in the red zone. It's blatant that Brees is looking for that guy, and you HAVE to take him away as an option. Putting a guy like Graham in single coverage (right before half) or losing him in motion (2nd half) is crazy to me. I was yelling at my TV both times how obvious the pass was going to be to him. Haden had good coverage on the TD right before half, but there's nothing anyone in the league can do to stop that. Great win though, I still am happily shocked that this didn't turn into a "this is how the Browns lose" game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside5 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 so all you geniuses would not have paid him top 5 cb money and let him walk? DB is the hardest position to play nowadays considering the league let's every WR push off right before the catch but they never make that call. none of you working from your mom's birth canal to berea with all the training, hard work and clean off the field issues couldn't lick the sweat off haden's jock even though you'd love to. OUCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Monday mornings suck. However Monday's after a Brownies win? They suck a little less. Like said above, trying to stop a vertical threat TE on a stick or option route is damned hard. It's a high completion play and whats worse is that in this league, defenders can't be as physical as the offensive players are apparently being. Trot out any CB onto Graham, Peterson, Revis, Sherman... none of them hold him in check when split out wide. Of course I didn't hear any of you bitching about Haden throwing a blanket on Cooks. That's the Saints second most dangerous player and he was silent when Joe was covering him. Speaking of secondary, can we give them some credit for making Colston a non-factor as well? There are some major concerns I have with this defense. First being, where is Donte? I could swear we field 10 players at some points, the guy has been a great veteran presence, but aside from one awesome hit in the pre-season, not much else. Hoping that gets back on track soon. The next biggest being our front 3-4. They were owned all game. Big Phil and Rub especially. Desmond Bryant still needs time to get back to 100%, but he as well needs to give that pass rushing presence on the interior. Armonty had an awesome preseason and a couple good plays against Pittsburgh, but the rest has yet to translate to the regular season. I'm not too worried about him though, he's still a very young player. The offense is ball control all the way. The lack of a vertical threat is a true handicap. However I"m more than happy with our pair of young running backs. West seems to grind out the tough yardage and Crowell is your home run threat. Great compliments to one another and as this team moves forward I think you'll see those two embrace that role. Their 'starting' spots within this offense will be interchangeable week in and week out depending on opponent. Aside from the sack taken, Hoyer didn't make any glarring mistakes. A couple errant throws, but nothing terrible. Its refreshing to see a QB that can take command of the huddle, and make a quick, safe decision with his passes. Get the skill positions set, such a Cameron healthy and Gordon back, then you have weapons who can go make plays for you. This team has serious promise. That's what this game has shown, if anything. I still don't expect the world this season, but it is hard not to get excited about some of the results. Another influx of young talent, plus maintaining what we currently have and good things could be in store. As it stands for the draft: I'll put my in depth thoughts on hold, but if I"m this front office, Leonard Williams is my primary target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiott Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 You guys are so funny. Yall act like Brown and Graham are scrubs. Give me a guy who shuts down these dudes. I wait... They're unstopable. Plus who are their qbs ? I mean give me a break. What do you say when Joe shuts down AJ Green or whoever ? Please. Haden is elite. He just sometimes plays against instopable studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml1138 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Here's the thing with Jimmy Graham. You have to live with the guy getting the 10-12 yard completions across the middle. It's frustrating at the time, but a great TE with the ability to "box out" defenders on those sit down routes is going to win almost every time. I've heard it argued and tend to agree those types of TE routes with a good TE and QB combo are the second hardest pass to defend after the back shoulder fade. With that being said, the only thing that really pissed me off was how we covered Jimmy in the red zone. It's blatant that Brees is looking for that guy, and you HAVE to take him away as an option. Putting a guy like Graham in single coverage (right before half) or losing him in motion (2nd half) is crazy to me. I was yelling at my TV both times how obvious the pass was going to be to him. Haden had good coverage on the TD right before half, but there's nothing anyone in the league can do to stop that. Great win though, I still am happily shocked that this didn't turn into a "this is how the Browns lose" game. I tend to agree with you. That's how I felt at the game. (I haven't watched the recording yet for 2nd looks however.) The trade off with double coverage on Graham means someone like Colston would see more passes, or their new WR Cooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATENEARS Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Actually Joe TV viewer has a much better view then being at the game. Close ups, replays etc. But Haden didn't look good yesterday or against Pittsburgh IMO. I'll disagree here. I actually mainly attend the games just so I can see the DB/WR action. TV gives you the tunnel vision view only unless the ball is thrown downfield, but so much more is seen away from the ball. It's like when Timmy Couch was here and all the yapper heads on here used an excuse that he had no one to throw to, yet those of us in attendance watch one receiver after another be ignored by the boy wonder. He couldn't see beyond the LB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I tend to agree with you. That's how I felt at the game. (I haven't watched the recording yet for 2nd looks however.) The trade off with double coverage on Graham means someone like Colston would see more passes, or their new WR Cooks. Definitely true but I take our chances being weaker against the run/lesser WR than letting Graham beat you like that. It's the same model for me with any elite pass catcher, Megatron, Gronk, Green etc. Oh well, at least it didn't bite us in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml1138 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Definitely true but I take our chances being weaker against the run/lesser WR than letting Graham beat you like that. It's the same model for me with any elite pass catcher, Megatron, Gronk, Green etc. Oh well, at least it didn't bite us in the end. Yes in hindsight I agree more coverage of Graham. Had we done so, this article wouldn't exist: http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/09/marques_colston_snaps_86-game_catch_streak_as_jimmy_graham_dominates_saints_short-passing_game.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuwoohio Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Impressions......best crowd in the stadium in a long time, and the Browns fast start got the crowd in the the game right off the bat. Every time it started to look like the same old Browns and the fans sat on their hands, someone made a play and kept the momentum going. This is a team starting to put things together. They're not great by any means, but they're heading in the right direction and I saw some coaching during a game, which has been missing for many years. I can't wait to get back to the stadium this coming Sunday to see if they can keep progressing. Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Yes in hindsight I agree more coverage of Graham. Had we done so, this article wouldn't exist: http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/09/marques_colston_snaps_86-game_catch_streak_as_jimmy_graham_dominates_saints_short-passing_game.html Dang that's crazy. I have him on my bench in fantasy football and I really thought recanting the game and seeing the goose egg he was hurt and I didn't see it before the game. The guy has always been solid but it seems like Brees has lost confidence in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml1138 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I've had Colston in past years on FF teams. Feast or famine was what I experienced. I never looked into it, but I suspect those feast times were results of double coverage on Graham. Brees relies heavily on him, just like yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Haden had a chance to stop a RB for a 1 yard loss on 3rd and 1, and he failed. Haden got picked on all day. The Saints made sure Haden was on Graham, because they knew Haden couldn't cover him. So-called shutdown CB, don't get picked on like Haden does. Haden is a good CB, but he is nowhere near a shutdown CB. So-called shutdown CB's either make plays or they don't get thrown against, and Joe Haden isn't either. Teams LOOK to throw on him, and they make plays against him all day.. Well, riddle me this: the so called best CB in the entire league, Richard Sherman, was abused yesterday by Phillip Rivers and the Chargers. So, does his status drop down as well? Face: rule changes, changes in ruled emphasis have put all DBs on the shit list of the NFL. They want the WRs essentially to be unencumbered when trying to catch the ball. This year there will probably be 5 WRs that will catch more balls for more yards than anyone has in the history of the NFL. Pinball football is the aim of the league. All DBs, even the best like Haden and Sherman, will suffer for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Well, riddle me this: the so called best CB in the entire league, Richard Sherman, was abused yesterday by Phillip Rivers and the Chargers. So, does his status drop down as well? Face: rule changes, changes in ruled emphasis have put all DBs on the shit list of the NFL. They want the WRs essentially to be unencumbered when trying to catch the ball. This year there will probably be 5 WRs that will catch more balls for more yards than anyone has in the history of the NFL. Pinball football is the aim of the league. All DBs, even the best like Haden and Sherman, will suffer for it. Agree. I'd love to hear who would take 5 CBs OVER Joe Haden, if they were drafting a team. Try it... Can you name 5 you'd rather have on your team? Doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted September 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Haden is elite. Joe Haden is not elite. He never has been. He's a good corner but not elite. I love the guy because he's a Brown but farther from reality you could not be. There were plays when Haden got burnt and HE WASN'T covering Graham. He got burned by Stills big time. I really like Joe but his skills and ability are not as great as they are perceived to be by most Browns fans. Haden has been out of position and often behind the receiver (Brown last week, Graham this week) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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