Cloward-Piven, and the bankrupting of the border control funds

[calfoxwc]

How can that not be intentional on the part of obamao ?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-official-says-immigrant-kids-draining-funds-044106093.html

[gftChris]

You mean the bit where children from other countries can't be turned away because of a bill passed by Bush in 2008? And now the immigration system is massively clogged up because of them and it's taking years for them to have hearings?

 

Sounds like a marxist plot to me.

[Westside Steve]

You mean the bit where children from other countries can't be turned away because of a bill passed by Bush in 2008? And now the immigration system is massively clogged up because of them and it's taking years for them to have hearings?

 

Sounds like a marxist plot to me.

Always me a chuckle when the guys on the left pic on any shitty policy by saying but Bush did it! So fucking what? Bush did plenty of stupid shit. But Obama's doing it now and that's where we live. In the present.

WSS

[gftChris]

Always me a chuckle when the guys on the left pic on any shitty policy by saying but Bush did it! So fucking what? Bush did plenty of stupid shit. But Obama's doing it now and that's where we live. In the present.

WSS

So Bush can do whatever the fuck he likes, but because there's someone else in charge now it doesn't matter?

 

Anyway, this bill was apparently passed with unilateral support in 2008, and nobody really thought about it being exploited in this way. Now it is, and it's causing problems. So why exactly is it the fault of the democrats?

[calfoxwc]

Chris:

 

1. I always maintained that my biggest gripe about Bush, was that he

didn't do much to close the freakin border.

 

2. Obamao has gone out of his way to render the border patrol completely ineffective.

 

3. We didn't have this huge, mass migration of ILLEGALS under Bush. That means that under

Obamao, illegal immigration is encouraged, condoned.

 

4. Yes, we are a nation of immigrants. LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

 

5. Why do libs whine about overpopulation, then refuse to admit that this mass illegal migration

is impossible to accomplish healthwise, screening wise, financially, national security wise.

 

6. Read up on Cloward-Piven. I'm just saying that with all the other things that we can't afford, seeing as how

we are in 17 trillion mire of stinkin red ink, this is added stress on our country.

 

7. Read the other six. I have to go work in the garden, or my Wonderful Cute Wife won't order me

a pizza for lunch.

[Westside Steve]

So Bush can do whatever the fuck he likes, but because there's someone else in charge now it doesn't matter?

 

Anyway, this bill was apparently passed with unilateral support in 2008, and nobody really thought about it being exploited in this way. Now it is, and it's causing problems. So why exactly is it the fault of the democrats?

Pay attention. It was a fucked up bill no matter who put it in place, Bush included.

 

The Democrats campaigned on a platform of fixing the evils that the evil bush foisted upon the nation.

 

5 & a half years later...

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Well, Chris, you have an answer? I was intrigued with reading it when you had a chance....

[DieHardBrownsFan]

It's Bushes fault. It will always be bushes fault, from now and for eternity.

[Browns149]

It's Bushes fault. It will always be bushes fault, from now and for eternity.

Just like Obama is the devil.

[calfoxwc]

Well, Chris, you have an answer? I was intrigued with reading it when you had a chance....

[LogicIsForSquares]

Pay attention. It was a fucked up bill no matter who put it in place, Bush included.

 

The Democrats campaigned on a platform of fixing the evils that the evil bush foisted upon the nation.

 

5 & a half years later...

WSS

 

"meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

[MLD Woody]

Just like Obama is the devil.

 

Don't joke about that stuff. Some on here honestly believed he was/could be the anti-Christ

[DieHardBrownsFan]

You mean the bit where children from other countries can't be turned away because of a bill passed by Bush in 2008? And now the immigration system is massively clogged up because of them and it's taking years for them to have hearings?

 

Sounds like a marxist plot to me.

Bills aren't 'passed' by the President. They are written and passed by the House and the Senate, then either signed into law or vetoed by the President.

[calfoxwc]

I guess Chris has no answer, or went to watch the world cup,

and got detained by customs or something....

[gftChris]

Chris:

 

1. I always maintained that my biggest gripe about Bush, was that he

didn't do much to close the freakin border.

And yet you're putting the blame entirely on Obama when this was a unilaterally supported when passed 6 years ago?

 

2. Obamao has gone out of his way to render the border patrol completely ineffective.

Subjective? I'd need more info on this before commenting, please feel free to provide some.

 

3. We didn't have this huge, mass migration of ILLEGALS under Bush. That means that under

Obamao, illegal immigration is encouraged, condoned.

I'd be interested in your sources for that. I'm going by Pew again, as it's the only data I can find - perhaps it's more easily available in the USA? - and it shows an increase year on year from 2000 to 2008, followed by a levelling off from 2008 to 2011. I'd like to have some reliable information for the last couple of years, but that information doesn't tend to become immediately available.

 

It's unclear whether the figures refer to all nationalities, since it's PewHispanic, but since the vast majority of your immigrants, particularly when talking about border control, are coming in from Mexico, it's most likely representative.

 

4. Yes, we are a nation of immigrants. LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

May want to check with the native americans, make sure that everybody who came over at any point in time had all their paperwork signed. I'm not convinced?

 

5. Why do libs whine about overpopulation, then refuse to admit that this mass illegal migration

is impossible to accomplish healthwise, screening wise, financially, national security wise.

Overpopulation? USA is about 75 times bigger than England, with a population 6 times bigger. You don't have overpopulation issues. You have easily enough land to feed everyone in the country.

 

6. Read up on Cloward-Piven. I'm just saying that with all the other things that we can't afford, seeing as how

we are in 17 trillion mire of stinkin red ink, this is added stress on our country.

Added stress, perhaps. But 17 trillion is basically just a number. If the debt is serviceable then it means nothing. The USA is reducing the deficit between borrowing and GDP year on year, recovering - very slowly - from the big crash in 2008, like the rest of the world.

 

 

7. Read the other six. I have to go work in the garden, or my Wonderful Cute Wife won't order me

a pizza for lunch.

You know I only really post at work, so take the weekends off, no need to keep badgering me. I mean, there's only so many times I can go over the same things again and again, so I'll take a break from time to time, but I'll usually be back. If you really want to get hold of me, send me a PM.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

4. Yes, we are a nation of immigrants. LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

May want to check with the native americans, make sure that everybody who came over at any point in time had all their paperwork signed. I'm not convinced?

 

Please. Blame the English, French and Spanish for that. Were talking now, not 300 years ago.

[gftChris]

I didn't bring it up, Cal did.

[Westside Steve]

Yeah I suppose we can go back through infinity as to what native people lived on what tract of land. And it's always fun to pretend the American Indians were saints.

 

But why isn't it fair to blame administration which has two thirds of the government under its control for five and a half years?

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

And yet you're putting the blame entirely on Obama when this was a unilaterally supported when passed 6 years ago?

**********************************************

Did you see this gigantic influx of immigrants under Bush? No. He let the border patrol do it's job. Everybody

knows that Obamao has put roadblocks in the way of the border patrol. I just admitted that Bush didn't close the border

either.

I can elaborate further, later, but we just finished a three day garage sale, I have big trees to cut down, cut up and split,

and we are going to Tenn soon to be on vacation with friends from NC, we have 780 tomato plants in our garden, along with

squash, watermelon, pumpkins, a lot of peppers, ground cherry/husk tomatoes and cukes etc etc etc and several other projects

going, and just went yesterday all day down to Cabela's near Wheeling, WV on a day trip with friends...

I just type very, very fast, and we have a blazing fast new computer.

I'd be interested in your sources for that. I'm going by Pew again, as it's the only data I can find - perhaps it's more easily available in the USA? - and it shows an increase year on year from 2000 to 2008, followed by a levelling off from 2008 to 2011. I'd like to have some reliable information for the last couple of years, but that information doesn't tend to become immediately available.

It's unclear whether the figures refer to all nationalities, since it's PewHispanic, but since the vast majority of your immigrants, particularly when talking about border control, are coming in from Mexico, it's most likely representative.

************************************************

Forget over the years... the illegal dam has burst just the last so many months under Obamao.

4. Yes, we are a nation of immigrants. LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

May want to check with the native americans, make sure that everybody who came over at any point in time had all their paperwork signed. I'm not convinced?

*************************************************

Nice goofy comeback, but it's nonsense. I'll take that as admitting I have a solid point here. The influx of people violating current

law, coming here, is a major flood of ilk.

Overpopulation? USA is about 75 times bigger than England, with a population 6 times bigger. You don't have overpopulation issues. You have easily enough land to feed everyone in the country.

***********************************

I take it you have never been to the inner cities over here? And you have never paid property taxes

for bigger and bigger schools over here? We are growing quite fast, and illegal immigrants are a health threat

to all Americans, especially our school children. The (^(&* is going to hit the fan soon.

6. Read up on Cloward-Piven. I'm just saying that with all the other things that we can't afford, seeing as how

we are in 17 trillion mire of stinkin red ink, this is added stress on our country.

Added stress, perhaps. But 17 trillion is basically just a number. If the debt is serviceable then it means nothing. The USA is reducing the deficit between borrowing and GDP year on year, recovering - very slowly - from the big crash in 2008, like the rest of the world.

***************************************************************

Read up on the growth and current percentage of entitlement spending. It's going to hit the stratosphere, it

has already hit the roof. And Obamaocare is a disaster to our deficit, too. Read up on Cloward-Piven, carefully.

Then note that Obamao taught classes in Saul Alinski's Rules for Radicals. And note that Cloward-Piven originated

with two professors at Columbia, where Obamao went to college..........

Thanks for getting back to me, thought you got lost in the fog over there. but everybody is busy. And your responses are often

either really stoned-like, or just plain not serious. So, if you have to keep going over them, perhaps you should

try harder the rest of the times and you'd be good.

[gftChris]

 

And yet you're putting the blame entirely on Obama when this was a unilaterally supported when passed 6 years ago?

**********************************************

Did you see this gigantic influx of immigrants under Bush? No.

Yes. Check out the link from PewHispanic - illegal immiagrants numbers 9.3m in 2001, and grew to 11.1m by 2009, peaking at 12m between then. Since then, it's apparently held steady, although we're missing the data for the last couple of years. He's the graph:

He let the border patrol do it's job. Everybody knows that Obamao has put roadblocks in the way of the border patrol. I just admitted that Bush didn't close the border either.

I'd be interested in your sources for that. I'm going by Pew again, as it's the only data I can find - perhaps it's more easily available in the USA? - and it shows an increase year on year from 2000 to 2008, followed by a levelling off from 2008 to 2011. I'd like to have some reliable information for the last couple of years, but that information doesn't tend to become immediately available.

It's unclear whether the figures refer to all nationalities, since it's PewHispanic, but since the vast majority of your immigrants, particularly when talking about border control, are coming in from Mexico, it's most likely representative.

************************************************

Forget over the years... the illegal dam has burst just the last so many months under Obamao.

so...no sources?

4. Nice goofy comeback, but it's nonsense. I'll take that as admitting I have a solid point here. The influx of people violating current

law, coming here, is a major flood of ilk.

I'm not sure what your point is here to begin with. Everybody's families were immigrants at some point, and yours happened to arrive before there was any border control. Lucky you. Other people's ancestors did not.

Overpopulation? USA is about 75 times bigger than England, with a population 6 times bigger. You don't have overpopulation issues. You have easily enough land to feed everyone in the country.

***********************************

Cities such as which? I know Detroit is crumbling - London has a population density 3 times higher. There's plenty of land out there if people were to become farmers and self sustaining, but they choose to cling to the crumbling ruins of a city that has been the only thing they know, and burdening the government in turn. Get these people sustaining themselves and you'll be much better off.

6. Read up on Cloward-Piven. I'm just saying that with all the other things that we can't afford, seeing as how

we are in 17 trillion mire of stinkin red ink, this is added stress on our country.

Added stress, perhaps. But 17 trillion is basically just a number. If the debt is serviceable then it means nothing. The USA is reducing the deficit between borrowing and GDP year on year, recovering - very slowly - from the big crash in 2008, like the rest of the world.

***************************************************************

Read up on the growth and current percentage of entitlement spending. It's going to hit the stratosphere, it

has already hit the roof. And Obamaocare is a disaster to our deficit, too. Read up on Cloward-Piven, carefully.

Then note that Obamao taught classes in Saul Alinski's Rules for Radicals. And note that Cloward-Piven originated

with two professors at Columbia, where Obamao went to college..........

Thanks for getting back to me, thought you got lost in the fog over there. but everybody is busy. And your responses are often

either really stoned-like, or just plain not serious. So, if you have to keep going over them, perhaps you should

try harder the rest of the times and you'd be good.

You think that's his plan? Bankrupt America? If he tried, he wouldn't be able to get away with before the end of his term as president. More realistically, he's just a little bit more communist than your regular liberal, spreading the wealth a little more than people are used to. I'd go in to more detail, but that's another, more economically-philosophical debate to have another time, but generally along the lines of "what is the minimum standard of living in 2014, and to what degree should the government provide for those that cannot provide for themselves?"

[calfoxwc]

Your dumb graph ends at 2011.

 

The overwhelming illegal rush is current and now. That is what we are talking about, Chris.

 

It has not happened before.

 

Here:

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2014/0608/Illegal-immigration-how-humanitarian-crisis-on-border-could-hurt-Obama-video

[gftChris]

I kinda already acknowledged that it only went up to 2011, and that I'd like more up to date data, but that doesn't become available. Did you notice the bit where it's hovered around the 11m mark since about 2009, but went up from 7m to 11m between 2001 and 2009?

 

Reading your link, I get the impression that the problem is that people are not understanding the law, rather than necessarily the law itself, which seems to apply only retroactively to people arriving in the country prior to 2007. But, because of misinterpretation (probably helped by it being talked about so much as allowing easy access to illegals?) kids are coming here thinking they can live here, even when the law does not apply to them.

 

 

 

DACA would not apply to anyone coming across the border today. Only undocumented immigrants who were brought to the US as minors before June 15, 2007, are eligible. But to Republican critics, DACA created the opportunity for misinformation and confusion. "Word has gotten out around the world about President Obama's lax immigration enforcement policies and it has encouraged more individuals to come to the United States illegally," said Rep. Bob Goodlatte ® of Virginia, a key broker in immigration reform efforts on Capitol Hill, in a statement last week.