ColumbusKing Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 "(There were) a lot of times that he knew what we were doing out there," Tramon Williams said Monday in a transcript released by the team. "(There were) a couple times he told us what we were doing." Are Pet & Co getting a little too predictable? http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/15888/tramon-williams-philip-rivers-told-browns-what-defense-they-were-in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 That exactly goes back to Canton Mike's point - that the defense is so complex and specific, the qb can study them, and know what in particular they are up to. I don't how a coach can get into the pro ranks, and not understand/forget... that the idea is to fool the other side, not inadvertently telegraph it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 you know what would solve this? A front 7 that just lined up like normal and beat their man. I mean seriously, the reason we're doing all this stupid convoluted shit is to try to get our less than mediocre pass rushers into the backfield. Sign/draft guys that put their hands in the ground and get past their man with even just avg to slightly better than avg consistency and we have a secondary that can at least cover guys long enough for the pressure to make an impact. There's no excuse not to have edges on this team that force the QB to step up into our interior push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 you know what would solve this? A front 7 that just lined up like normal and beat their man. I mean seriously, the reason we're doing all this stupid convoluted shit is to try to get our less than mediocre pass rushers into the backfield. Sign/draft guys that put their hands in the ground and get past their man........... Exactly. We need to stop drafting work out warriors, with "freakish physical abilities and tons of potential" and start drafting football players.......... What do I mean? I mean stop prioritizing the combine numbers, and instead look at the players' years of game tape. Start drafting the guys who stand out when watching the game tape, and forget the guys who suddenly ran a 4.29 in shorts and a tank top, or ran around cones really, really fast. Then, maybe we'll have far less Mingos, Gilberts and Wimbleys, and more Woodheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColumbusKing Posted October 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 So are we thinking that the defense is so complicated that it is obvious when we want to do certain things to the opponent, or is it that we run the exact same stuff, in the same situatuations, every week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I think it's because O'Neil is barely qualified to be an assistant college coach, let alone a defensive coordinator of an NFL team. But hey, Pettine's loyal I guess. I don't have many problems with Pettine, I like that he holds players accountable and seems to identify the best talent fairly well in practice, over higher paid scrubs. But if the defense doesn't improve drastically, somebody's head will be called for - and it'll probably be O'Neil (Isn't that a Rex Ryan thing? Firing coordinators after a bad year?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Rivers ID'd a couple Blitzers and a couple "coverages"... if "zone" counts as a coverage. All that is going to happen is Pet is going to shift his time back to the D-side of the ball. Actually I would assume he already has this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Rivers ID'd a couple Blitzers and a couple "coverages"... if "zone" counts as a coverage. All that is going to happen is Pet is going to shift his time back to the D-side of the ball. Actually I would assume he already has this week. I hope so. It is a knock on him that he even let it get to this point though. Seems a little overly trusting of his underlings. And those numbers on Pettine's past rushing defenses don't give me a ton of hope that that part of the defense will get fixed, sad to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I guess I just think too damn simplistically. Some things I think: Shelton played 3 downs in college. Can we at least SEE if he can do that in the NFL? Quit "gassing" all our big boys running them on & off the field every play or two. Find & install more "3 down" LBs. Especially OLBs! I've had it with all this specialist crap. It just seems to me that the more 3 down players we have, the more continuity & unit cohesiveness we would have, and that makes for more effective execution, which equals better production. Like I said, my thinking may be too simplistic, but that MAY be what we need....Back to basics & K.IS.S.! BLOCK, HIT the hole/seam, PURSUE & TACKLE! Let's play FOOTBALL, not chess. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I agree we rotate the DL too much. We want fresh legs, you get that from rotating possession to possession, not running them on play to play. Plus a vet QB like Rivers is easily going to see that certain guys are on the field it's going to be this package. I wasn't a guge Ray Horton fan, but he did come from that Lebeau tree where it wasn't who was on the field but where there were going to come from that mattered. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'd love to hear a realistic plan of attack from everyone bitching about our acquisitions. Who would you have signed in free agency? For how much? Who would you have drafted? When? Ideally, yes...we'd have 7 men in our front 7 who can win one on one every play. But there's maybe three- five players like that at each position and guess what....they're almost all paid pretty damn well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbackbrownie2 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I'd love to hear a realistic plan of attack from everyone bitching about our acquisitions. Who would you have signed in free agency? For how much? Who would you have drafted? When? Ideally, yes...we'd have 7 men in our front 7 who can win one on one every play. But there's maybe three- five players like that at each position and guess what....they're almost all paid pretty damn well. You have a point but We paid Kruger pretty well and has he touched a QB jersey all year? Chicago's defense was terrible last year and they had Carr running for his life all game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richiswhere Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Whats that term they use in the NFL to describe when a QB can read what the defense is about to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 You have a point but We paid Kruger pretty well and has he touched a QB jersey all year? Chicago's defense was terrible last year and they had Carr running for his life all game.. Kruger has been a monumental failure this year. He was also a Lombardi acquisition, so not really on Farmer. He did have 11 sacks last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I honestly believe we already have some 3 down players "in waiting" who aren't being properly utilized. Let's coach 'em up & let 'em play. I'm not yet ready to throw in the towel on our players. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColumbusKing Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Whats that term they use in the NFL to describe when a QB can read what the defense is about to do? Huge difference between "reading a defense" and calling out what the players are gonna do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Huge difference between "reading a defense" and calling out what the players are gonna do Not really. It's pretty easy to call out what individual players are gonna do, I'd say even the average fan could spy one individual per play and correctly predict what they'll do with about 75% accuracy. It doesn't always have to be the same individual, and it doesn't always have to be the same call. A good QB makes multiple calls at the line before every snap. Some are true, some are bullshit. I can walk to the line next week against Baltimore and call "Mike 52! Drop 98! Rambo! Oscar! Doozy, doozy! 16! Easy!" and gesticulate all over the field, but that doesn't mean a damn thing to my team, other than they know I'm calling out the middle linebacker (Mike) and that there is an uncovered receiver (Rambo) and that I'm snapping the ball on the first "hut" after "ready" (Easy). Add to that pre-snap motions to determine coverage, and tendencies gleaned in film study and throughout the game and I'm sure Rivers was able to correctly point out blitzing players, combo coverages and different packages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 But WTF does "Omaha" mean? Looking forward to us having a QB that calls out Defenses someday. Even if it is only "zone" without specifying what kind of zone. McC was routinely pointing out the Mike and made several play option calls Sunday (runs to passes and vice versa), but our line adjustments stank early on. I had to quit for the day after two series... the line calls were that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Italian DawgPound Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 you know what would solve this? A front 7 that just lined up like normal and beat their man. I mean seriously, the reason we're doing all this stupid convoluted shit is to try to get our less than mediocre pass rushers into the backfield. Sign/draft guys that put their hands in the ground and get past their man with even just avg to slightly better than avg consistency and we have a secondary that can at least cover guys long enough for the pressure to make an impact. There's no excuse not to have edges on this team that force the QB to step up into our interior push. I'm no expert, but I would appreciate going back to a 4-3 defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Italian DawgPound Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I wasn't a guge Ray Horton fan, but he did come from that Lebeau tree where it wasn't who was on the field but where there were going to come from that mattered. Z True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Exactly. We need to stop drafting work out warriors, with "freakish physical abilities and tons of potential" and start drafting football players.......... What do I mean? I mean stop prioritizing the combine numbers, and instead look at the players' years of game tape. Start drafting the guys who stand out when watching the game tape, and forget the guys who suddenly ran a 4.29 in shorts and a tank top, or ran around cones really, really fast. Then, maybe we'll have far less Mingos, Gilberts and Wimbleys, and more Woodheads. To an extent I agree with you except that I want "freaks"...but freaks that prove it on the field. Some guy benching 225 50 times but has gator arms, well that guy probably isn't going to be a good pass rusher cause good pass rushers need at least decent arm lengths to get into their guy before he gets his hands on them. He who gets his hands on his guy first almost always wins on the field. I mean Dansby was supposed to be one of those "football players"...and i'm sorry but he's just not that good. You have to find guys with god given physical abilities AND some smarts so they're coachable. Clowney was one of those guys people said had raw freakish talent but there's a good chance he flames out cause he doesn't have the drive and the football smarts, it's still early in his career but that may turn out to be a dead nuts assessment on him. Mack on the other hand, he had "all of the above". In the gym, on the field...has brains...that was a guy we simply should not have passed on maybe moreso than any of the other superstars we've whiffed on. That guy can be moved all over the front 7 save as an interior lineman.....that kind of freak we have to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Let us not forget how much the Defense was gashed on penalties as well as passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I'm no expert, but I would appreciate going back to a 4-3 defense. I thought so to but now that we're 4 games in i'm not sure if that would help much cause it's apparent to me now we've got bigger talent issues than I thought. 4-3 or 3-4, you still gotta beat your man. If you beat your man but are still consistently out of place, than it's scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDDawg Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Kruger has been a monumental failure this year. He was also a Lombardi acquisition, so not really on Farmer. He did have 11 sacks last year. Kruger excelled when he has put in his right position. This year he's been put in pass coverage even though he doesn't have the hips for it, another dumb move by the coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Kruger has been a monumental failure this year. He was also a Lombardi acquisition, so not really on Farmer. He did have 11 sacks last year. Of those 11 sacks though I bunch were from the QB spilling out away from Kruger because of an interior blitz or push by the lineman. Honestly I can say in his three years he has only legitimately beaten a tackle less than a handful of times for a sack. His outside leverage is atrocious, especially for strapping young lad such as he....fucking Clay Matthews digs in like a pack mule going around the edge and he gives up 20 lbs to Kruger. Unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Did anybody else notice how fired up Rivers got when they didn't convert on 3rd down or do something wrong? That is what we need in a QB. Josh just jogs off the field like he is going to hang out with his boys. We need a coach and QB and leaders that can light a fire under our guys and play hard. Our D is a joke and our O only wants to play in the forth quarter. We should have won last week and it should not have been close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Did anybody else notice how fired up Rivers got when they didn't convert on 3rd down or do something wrong? That is what we need in a QB. Josh just jogs off the field like he is going to hang out with his boys. We need a coach and QB and leaders that can light a fire under our guys and play hard. Our D is a joke and our O only wants to play in the forth quarter. We should have won last week and it should not have been close. Josh has thrown for 700 yards, 4 TD and 1 INT through two games. We don't need any sort of change at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Of those 11 sacks though I bunch were from the QB spilling out away from Kruger because of an interior blitz or push by the lineman. Honestly I can say in his three years he has only legitimately beaten a tackle less than a handful of times for a sack. His outside leverage is atrocious, especially for strapping young lad such as he....fucking Clay Matthews digs in like a pack mule going around the edge and he gives up 20 lbs to Kruger. Unacceptable. Couldn't tell you. I know he's been bad. He's playing out of position and the rest of our LB corps is also playing like shit, as well...so it's not just Kruger. He's just the most expensive mistake right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns23 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/12437/year/2014/paul-kruger The above link is Kruger's stats from 2014 by each game. He had 3 sacks against Oakland and 2 against Atlanta. His longest drought of sacks was four games in 2014, so here's to hoping his drought of the season is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I would have had Rubin, Taylor, Shelton and Bryant down on the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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