The proof is NOT in the film

[Alkid3]

If anyone caught BOs interview... how cringe worthy was that? He didn't even have anything else to say. I feel bad for the guy he was terrible in Houston but I think he had a huge spot light on him because of how much money he got.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000811050/article/osweiler-im-absolutely-good-enough-to-be-starter

[Tour2ma]

Geez, Brock... let your work in OTAs and TC speak for itself...

 

 

I'd color him "gone", but he may have hurt his value too much.

[gumby73]

Tiss'inn'it(yes a word) great the first day the media is aloud into OTA's we get these great quotes from the Arss. He has probably practiced these lines in his house mirror all off season."I was standing in a sand trap when got news to Browns" .Bill O'Brien you lucky asssstard..(want some more? Garrett out til next week("precautionary" get use to it).Peppers & Britt not done much either..might want to get that contract signed

[The Gipper]

I am of the opinion that he will be the Browns starting QB come the start of the regular season. Just a hunch.

[jiggins7919]

I haven't watched "the film", but I did watch him play several times. I was left with the opinion of a QB who didn't display touch, consistent accuracy, or the ability to process information quickly. That is not to say that everything was completely bad. I thought Brock showed a lot of toughness and moxie. I saw multiple runs for big first downs in which he put the shoulder down and fought for extra yards. I saw him help win a lot of close games (the flip side of that is the games probably SHOULDN'T have been that close because of some bad QB play, but whatever). No matter how good your defense and special teams are, winning games is winning games. That being said, I think most of us would admit that Brock didn't play that well last year, but I don't hear anything about how he played two years ago. While he didn't set the world on fire, he did play pretty well with the Broncos. THAT tape is probably better than last year.

 

I don't expect Brock to win the job because I don't believe he can process information quickly enough and I don't think he has the consistent accuracy needed to give receivers YAC.

 

I thought it was interesting yesterday that Browns radio host Nathan Zegura said that the best throws came from Deshone Kizer....but also that the WORST throws came from him as well. Nathan mentioned one deep pass that "nobody else could make" that was amazing, but then cited a high pass against the blitz that resulted in a pick-6. What's the one thing a QB can't do in the NFL? That's right, miss high. I've said it before about Kizer, and it's one of the reasons he has such a long road ahead of him. To me, Kizer is the guy who will "wow" you, and then he'll rip your heart out. Cody will win the job because he'll be steady. However, Kizer has a good chance to win the gig in 2018 because "steady" won't be enough. If Cody can win like 4-5 games this year, that's progress. But is he good enough to take us to the Wildcard contending status? I doubt it. That's when Kizer comes in, and hopefully by that time he has addressed his "high throwing" and other deficiencies.

[Tour2ma]

Cody is more of a game manager to be sure, but he has to dial the aggression up... which is kinda unique.

 

Kizer has to be more consistent, so it's a matter of determining the source(s) of his inconsistency... but he has time.

 

Brock-lobster? I think you nailed it in his processing rate, but I still lay a good chunk of his information overload in HOU at Bill-O's feet. Life and QBing was much simpler in DNV and he looked better... not great... but better than he did in HOU.

[nickers]

Cody is more of a game manager to be sure, but he has to dial the aggression up... which is kinda unique.

 

Kizer has to be more consistent, so it's a matter of determining the source(s) of his inconsistency... but he has time.

 

Brock-lobster? I think you nailed it in his processing rate, but I still lay a good chunk of his information overload in HOU at Bill-O's feet. Life and QBing was much simpler in DNV and he looked better... not great... but better than he did in HOU.

For the last fucking time... All QB's are game managers.. no matter what the talent level may be...

[Tour2ma]

For the last fucking time... All QB's are game managers.. no matter what the talent level may be...

 

Disagree...

 

"Game manager" carries a "first do no harm" mindset connotation that all QBs simply do not have in equal amounts. Kess has it almost to a fault.

 

Last fucking time I'll tell you this...

[Mudfly]

For me, game manager has always been a cliche term reserved for QB's who dont have great talent, but somehow get it done anyway....

[The Gipper]

For me, game manager has always been a cliche term reserved for QB's who dont have great talent, but somehow get it done anyway....

The Raven's Trent Dilfer

The Bucs Brad Johnson

 

even a Rex Grossman for one year getting his team to a SB.

An Alex Smith

A Bob Griese? Even though he is HOF...that is what I saw him as.

Any other examples?

 

Some...a few combine absolute skill with superior game management skills. I see Tom Brady like that.

[TexasAg1969]

The Raven's Trent Dilfer

The Bucs Brad Johnson

 

even a Rex Grossman for one year getting his team to a SB.

An Alex Smith

A Bob Griese? Even though he is HOF...that is what I saw him as.

Any other examples?

 

Some...a few combine absolute skill with superior game management skills. I see Tom Brady like that.

 

Jim McMahon on the '85 Bears. That's all they needed.

[TopDawg31]

I am of the opinion that he will be the Browns starting QB come the start of the regular season. Just a hunch.

I'm in agreement with you on Brock Gip. I believe he was not a good fit for O'Briens offense. Change of address and QB coach will be good for Brock and us win starving fans.

[StinkHole]

The Raven's Trent Dilfer

The Bucs Brad Johnson

 

even a Rex Grossman for one year getting his team to a SB.

An Alex Smith

A Bob Griese? Even though he is HOF...that is what I saw him as.

Any other examples?

Yeah, Neil O'Donnell.

IMO the main ingredient to being a top game manager is no interceptions. O'Donnell entered Super Bowl XXX having the NFL record for the least amount of interceptions per passes thrown...he then proceeds to throw 2 in that game.

[Tour2ma]

Terry Pluto has published his usual, level-headed take... the man is a breath of fresh air with his Browns coverage.

 

Cleveland Browns have Terry Talkin' Brock Osweiler, impressions from OTAs -- Terry Pluto (photos)

Posted on May 27, 2017 at 7:42 AM

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

terrypluto2003@yahoo.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Is the proof in the film?

That question lingered after Brock Osweiler gave his first press conference as a member of the Cleveland Browns.

I was there and was impressed with how the former Houston quarterback handled the questions. It's a tough spot. He is viewed as a throw-in as part of a deal that brought a 2018 second-round pick to the Browns.

Cleveland.com's Doug Lesmerises has taken some heat for pressing Osweiler about why he "absolutely" believes he can be a starting quarterback.

"I think the proof is in the film for the past two years," he said.

As Lesmerises correctly said, others doubt that. It's a fair point.

Osweiler simply replied, "It's OK."

But the big question about Osweiler being a starter and the film is this: Which film?

The film for 2016, when he led the NFL with 16 interceptions and had all kinds of problems adapting to Bill O'Brien's offense in Houston? He was a mess for much of the season. Houston fans were glad to see him go.

Or how about the film from 2015, when he played eight games for Denver? He threw 10 TD passes compared to six interceptions. He completed 62 percent of his throws. He started seven of those games and had a 5-2 record.

What film?

The film in 2016 led most of the NFL to write him off at the age of 26.

The film in 2015 not only inspired Houston to give him a four-year, $72 million deal ($36 million guaranteed), but other teams wanted him.

The film in 2015, along with having him on the team, inspired Denver general manager John Elway to offer Osweiler a three-year, $45 million contract ($20 million guaranteed) for three years.

The film and what happened on the field in 2015 tells Osweiler he can start for some teams. He surely looks at the Browns and believes he can beat out Cody Kessler and rookie DeShone Kizer.

He didn't say that exactly. He did say no one comes to training camp with the goal of being a backup.

If the only existing film on Osweiler came from 2016, I'd agree with his critics. He's probably a lost cause. But at the end of the 2015 season, Osweiler was considered a good pro prospect who'd had some success in Denver's offense.

A LITTLE HISTORY

O'Brien has been the head coach in Houston for three seasons.

He has had eight different starting quarterbacks ... that's right, eight!

Injuries dictated some of the switches. But it's also clear O'Brien can't find a quarterback. Nor has he been able to develop one.

Here's his Big Eight: Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Hoyer, Brandon Weeden, Case Keenum, Ryan Mallet, T.J. Yates, Tom Savage and Osweiler.

In three years, he's had three opening day starters: Fitzpatrick (2014), Hoyer (2015) and Osweiler (2016). He pulled Hoyer at the end of three quarters in the 2015 opener.

Rookie Deshaun Watson will probably be the fourth starter in four years.

Osweiler clashed with O'Brien.

While Houston has won a lot more games than the Browns in the last three years, the quarterback situation has been just as chaotic. Very few Houston quarterbacks under O'Brien produced good film.

My view is let's see what Osweiler can do.

Having Kessler open practices as a starter makes sense. He knows the system. Coach Hue Jackson said, "They have to take it from Cody."

But Osweiler deserves the chance to see if he can grab the job, or at least be a very viable backup. It was only a year ago several NFL teams (including Elway in Denver) thought he was much more than that.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/05/cleveland_browns_have_terry_ta_120.html

I'm going to post other sections of the article in the appropriate threads.

[Pumpkin Eater]

DeSuck Suckzer sucks.

[The Gipper]

 

Jim McMahon on the '85 Bears. That's all they needed.

I guess I never thought of McMahon as the "game manager" type. Perhaps it was his personality.....but perhaps the personality didn't match up with his style.

Outrageous personal style.....calm steady QB style? Can that be?

[The Gipper]

Yeah, Neil O'Donnell.

IMO the main ingredient to being a top game manager is no interceptions. O'Donnell entered Super Bowl XXX having the NFL record for the least amount of interceptions per passes thrown...he then proceeds to throw 2 in that game.

Yes, good one. There have probably been a few others like him whose "game management style" got them to the brink but not over it.

 

Could Kerry Collins be another? Though I think of him as more than a "game manager".

[Tour2ma]

Hue is surprised... and pleased...

Browns coach Hue Jackson praises QB Brock Osweiler
Pat McManamonESPN Staff Writer

BEREA, Ohio -- Hue Jackson had positive words for quarterback Brock Osweiler on Wednesday, calling the quarterback a "pleasant surprise" as the Cleveland Browns worked in Week 2 of OTAs.

"He's done a good job," the Browns coach said of Osweiler, who was acquired from Houston in March. "He works hard at it every day. He's into it. I think he really enjoys being here."

Osweiler is working with Cody Kessler, rookie DeShone Kizer and Kevin Hogan as the Browns sort through who will be the starter. This was not his week to speak to the media, but a week ago he said he could not have felt more welcome.

As for expectations, Jackson was candid in saying his were not exactly soaring when Osweiler arrived.

"I expected everything that you guys wrote," Jackson said. "I watched everything that you guys wrote about what he was and what he wasn't. I heard it from everywhere, too."

Osweiler had a winning record last season for Houston -- his one season as a full-time starter -- but he also threw 16 interceptions and completed just 59 percent, both fourth-lowest in the league.

Jackson clearly was aware, but he has insisted since he came to Cleveland he would judge what he sees.

"I think you guys know me; I don't judge people by what everybody else says," Jackson said. "But everybody has a reputation before them. His was a little bit different. He's not any of that that we've [seen]. The guy has been outstanding in our building, and I think that's what's most important."

Jackson said Osweiler is "long and lanky" when he throws but said he moves well for a guy who stands 6-feet-8. He said Osweiler's height can make him look gangly but that he is so tall that he can drop passes over defenders.

At one point in practice, Osweiler limped away after being caught in a tangle of linemen after he fell while moving up in the pocket. Trainers checked him, but he returned soon after.

Jackson said he told Osweiler on Tuesday that he sees improvement from a year ago.

"He looks much better right now," Jackson said. "He's more compact. He's throwing the ball with a lot more velocity. He's doing a lot of good things. He needs to keep going, just like all our quarterbacks do."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19506394/cleveland-browns-coach-hue-jackson-praises-qb-brock-osweiler

[The Gipper]

QBs that tall usually do not turn out so well:

Of course, Dan McGwire comes to mind.

Ryan Mallett...not so hot.

Mike Glennon...not so hot so far

Derek Anderson...hot one year...but that was it.

6' 6" Joe Flacco......maybe the best NFL QB 6'6" or taller.

Or, would that be Cam Newton? Also 6'6"

These last two give hope that a taller QB can succeed.

 

Tallest QBs in the HOF? 6'4" Dan Marino and 6'4" Troy Aikman. That will change when the 6'5" Peyton Manning and same height Ben R. likely go in.

[jiggins7919]

Been reading from a couple media guys that were at the OTA's that Brock is looking pretty good. Zac Jackson even said, "Brock looks like the best one out there, and it's not even close."

 

Now, this isn't a giant surprise. John Elway offered this guy a bunch of money to be the guy in Denver, and John doesn't historically do that for just anyone. Brock is big, tall, and more mobile than you think. He also throws a good ball and has plenty of juice on it. Don't be surprised if Brock looks great when it doesn't count, but then sucks when the lights come on. Classic, "Look like Tarzan, play like Jane" kind of guy.

 

Or maybe he's truly garbage, or maybe...just maybe...the guy is actually a decent player and we found a steal.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Of course he looks great compared to desuck suckzer and sucky suckler.

[jcam222]

Of course he looks great compared to desuck suckzer and sucky suckler.

you really need new material

[TexasAg1969]

Been reading from a couple media guys that were at the OTA's that Brock is looking pretty good. Zac Jackson even said, "Brock looks like the best one out there, and it's not even close."

 

Now, this isn't a giant surprise. John Elway offered this guy a bunch of money to be the guy in Denver, and John doesn't historically do that for just anyone. Brock is big, tall, and more mobile than you think. He also throws a good ball and has plenty of juice on it. Don't be surprised if Brock looks great when it doesn't count, but then sucks when the lights come on. Classic, "Look like Tarzan, play like Jane" kind of guy.

 

Or maybe he's truly garbage, or maybe...just maybe...the guy is actually a decent player and we found a steal.

 

Elway wanted him to stay but would not match the money Houston offered. Too bad for Denver but good for the Browns if he turns out to be the 2015 version.

[ballpeen]

I have high hopes for the guy. O'Brien is a difficult person. My hope is Brock responds better to Hue's coaching style.

[Tour2ma]

O'Brien is a difficult person.

 

Such understatement deserves quotation...

[TopDawg31]

Can anyone name a QB that succeeded in Bill O'Briens offense? I have hope for Brock and fully expect him to be our opening day starter.

[Mudfly]

Can anyone name a QB that succeeded in Bill O'Briens offense?

Tom Brady....

[TopDawg31]

Tom Brady....

Ok so one got lucky, but was it really Obrien? Dude has had many years of success without him.

[Mudfly]

Ok so one got lucky, but was it really Obrien? Dude has had many years of success without him.

Of course he's had success w/o him.....how many star QB's are great because of their coaches?

 

My point would be that good QB's usually play good and bad QB's usually dont....no matter who the coach is....

 

Obrien doesnt really have an NFL pedigree, as the Patriots are pretty much the only NFL team he has coached for....cept the Texans, who have yet to tap into a good QB since he's been there....IE: he's had the amazing opportunity to coach Ryan Mallet, Brian Hoyer, Brandon Weeden, TJ Yates and Brock.....

 

The one (almost) decent guy they have given him was Ryan Fitzpatrick, who happened to have his highest rating in 10 season the one year he played there.....not saying it was Obriens doing, just saying it is what it is.....

[Tour2ma]

All true... so what I think we can surmise from Bill-O's success/failure examples is the his "system" is more demanding mentally than it is physically.

 

Can't say for sure where Hue's demand levels are comparatively, but my impression is that mental is less while physical is greater.