Training Camp(s) 2016

[tiamat63]

I'm going to put this year in response to another thread. I mentioned in the defense at training camp thread but wanted one devoted to members attending.

 

 

Myself and several friends will be in attendance on Sunday the 31st. Might even do the Saturday before as well. IF you're going, post up here and members can coordinate if they so choose.

On top of that, if you (like myself) take notes at camps - feel free to post those thoughts here. However I asked you keep your material compartmentalized regarding offense and defense.

 

 

See you boys there, Go Brownies!

[BrownsnMopar]

Tried to get passes for the 30th and 31st SOLD OUT!

[gumby73]

Joe Haden to Pup List: Recovering from ankle surgery. States again will be ready Week 1. Seth Devalve to Pup list: Missed some time of OTA's in May with Hammy. Josh Gordon to NFI List: Injured Quad in summer workout. Possible 2 weeks away from practicing. Connor Boffeli to NFI List: Knee/Ankle. G. Barnidge, Shon Coleman & C. Nassib all passed Physicals but maybe Limited at Camp Friday..No injury classification on Desmond Bryant yet?

[Canton Mike]

I'll be there 7/31 with my son, his fiancee & 2 grandkids.

I'm hard to miss...an old white bearded guy in my #46 orange jersey with the name "Cantonmike" on it.

Hope to see some of you there.

 

Mike

[tiamat63]

I'll be there 7/31 with my son, his fiancee & 2 grandkids.

I'm hard to miss...an old white bearded guy in my #46 orange jersey with the name "Cantonmike" on it.

Hope to see some of you there.

 

Mike

 

I'll get at you.

[tiamat63]

Yours truly will be Live posting from camp. CantonMike.... where you be??

[tiamat63]

Scooby looks like a classic Mike backer.

 

Ogba ain't playing OLB. Kid is huge.

 

Desir lining up with the safeties.

[tiamat63]

Tons of motion. Motion out of full house looks to trips quite often.

[tiamat63]

Obga taking second team reps at RE.

 

Starting defense is Campbell, Poyer, Williams, Gilbert and Kwaun in the secondary.

 

Shelton and Meder on the interior early.

[tiamat63]

Bibbs with a nice over the shoulder.

 

Ricardo bobbled damn near everything.

 

Terrelle needs to get deeper into his Cuts.

 

Hawk still has the fastest feet of our receivers and some of the fastest ive.seen.

[tiamat63]

Mary Kay - get at me boo. She's tiny and has trust fund. Good looking for an older lady.

[tiamat63]

Plenty more thoughts. Wrote them all down. Will post later.

 

CantonMike - haven't seen you bud.

[Canton Mike]

Plenty more thoughts. Wrote them all down. Will post later.

 

CantonMike - haven't seen you bud.

 

Thanks for the feedback. We didn't get there until 2:30 or so...ended up on west side just south of the NW field. Couldn't see much of the full contact stuff. Sorry we missed connecting but shoot me a message when you'll be in Canton area & we'll try to get together.

 

Mike

[tiamat63]

Going to try to condense my thoughts, it was difficult having such up tempo practices and then getting eyes to multiple positions groups. Going to try to get out to another camp. So these are what I caught. Not everything will be in order.

 

- As I said first, up tempo practices. 1st, 2nd and 3rd team reps fly in and out.

 

Defense -

 

Early looks had Danny exclusively at nose, rotations at the 3spot from Meder and Coop primarily. Hughes backed up Danny until I saw Stample come in.

 

-Ends in the four down looks ranged from Nassib at LE, Obga at RE. Then when there was rotation you saw Nate at RE with Obga playing some left. Only saw Obga in 2pt on one occasion. As I said, I don't expect him to be there much.

-Kruger got reps in on pass rush/protection drills, saw time at SLB and even a couple snaps at the MIKE. Thought he might just be there on a delayed blitz but no, he legitimately dropped underneath looking for crossers.

-Ogba and Nassib did not work with the linebackers once. Just hammering that point home. I don't see a player with the lateral agility to be effective at the position. Very one dimensional in his pass rush.

-Mingo is taller than I remember? Looks little heavier but nothing to write home about. Might just be carrying the weight better. Incredible burst but still has a penchant for picking a shoulder and taking himself out of plays. Mark my words, if there are successful cut backs when he's on the field, it will be to his side.

-Orchard stretch out plays well, looks to be maintaining outside leverage better. Likewise compliment to Nassib.

- Desir initially worked with the safeties. Then when they got looks from taller receivers, he played CB.

- I want to stress how vanilla the defense looked today. Coverage shells and looks were quite obvious, I can only recall a few times seeing combination coverages in 11 on 11. I'd say our looks were 95% 2 shell and then man 1.

- Danny himself looks a tad more trim. Hands weren't on his hips much, conditioning showed well.

- Gilbert. Still hasn't learned to keep his hands up pre-snap on a jam. Still plays high in his stance. He flat out got smoked twice today failing to get a hand on a receiver. Got hit with a nice stepback from Hollywood. I have my concerns.

- Kirksey was all over in 11 on 11. Had a couple nice open field tackles and blew up a TE screen as well.

- Front got solid pressure when we went to empty sets. But then again, we're supposed to do that.

- DB's don't look 'awful' ...but without Haden I can't say I was grinning ear to ear. Everybody in the crowd gave that familiar *sigh* when a deep ball didn't connect. I was the only person in my section actually encouraged to see DB's in pockets on occasion. Side note, I don't think these guys are being taught to play the ball in man coverage. Like....at all. Turnovers will come at a premium from this group.

- Haden was out doing a light job and sitting in with the DB's giving tips. Still clearly the general of the secondary.

 

Offense

 

- A fuck ton of motion. Even though most of the sets we ran today didn't have much variance. I saw motion in all of them.

- Full house motion to a gun trips open. Where-ever the slot receiver went, the corresponding outside receiver played off.

- Hawk is still tiny but clearly the leader of this group of receivers

- A fair amount of lateral running from the gun with backside pulls. I even saw a double pull at one point.

- Not many open side runs. A lot of power and strength calls.

- One of the checks at the line was 'Beyonce' (in a 6lineman package) I laughed because I think of booty when I hear queen B, turns out it was a check from a weakside to a strongside run following the 6th lineman (Bailey and/or Shon)

- Saw two pistol looks. Erving botched the snap on one. The second was a run/pass option. A read with a built in slant behind it.

- Corey Coleman got a nice go against press. However I only counted him running 3 different routes. Slant, a little hitch against zone and the 9. Four routes if you count a screen.

- Speaking of screens. Hue clearly wants our screen game to work. Coleman, Barney, Duke... all got chances in space with some interesting play designs off of motion.

- Pryor can be a god damn animal. Caught a badly underthrown ball from RG3. The route was to the outside and down, the ball was placed inside shoulder and short. He made a great adjustment against patterson. Also with a motion to an empty set got a good look right down the seam. I think one of the staples of the passing offense this year will be threatening safeties with his size leaving Hawk and Coleman outside working their way back underneath and into the middle of the field.

- McC is still the best thrower from the pocket on this team. Still the one making the quickest and best decisions. Robert miss a couple good matchups against obvious blitzes. Sure he broke contain and got yards with his legs, but you won't make your bones in the NFL for long like that. Josh is still the best 'QB' on roster as far as I'm concerned.

- Speaking QB's and skill sets. Didn't see any boot action or designed roll outs from RG3. A couple went Kessler's way but that was about it.

- Davis has a great throwing motion in person. Robert's is still a bit 3/4. Cody's arm is clearly not as good as the other 3 QB's. Wouldn't shock me that Kessler ends up on the practice squad.

- A nice little formation was the single back, tight right with a FB behind him. Misdirection and the wing crosses the formation to kick out the backside defender. I think 12 personnel might be our best bet this year. I still don't see a

true lead that can bulldoze a hole.

 

 

A have more thoughts but they're in my head and not on paper. Been up since 6:30. Going to get some sleep and try to get them out there before I head to work tomorrow.

[calfoxwc]

Thanks for the cool write up, Tiam. I think this early in the year,

the Browns will not be showing any non-vanilla looks.

 

Last year, at the practices, Pryor was explosive off the los

vs Haden. Haden had all he could do to try to stalemate Pryor

off the los, and it was cool to watch. With all the extra work

he's gotten in since then, it seems like he could really

rock in games.

 

I can't wait to see a 4 wr set.... with Pryor, Higgins, Coleman and

Hawkins...whoever. I think defenses are going to go through hell

trying to figure out where the ball is going to go. Add Duke and Barnidge

to the mix... the running game should open up legitimately.

 

You mentioned not seeing a true lead that can bulldoze a hole. I just

wonder - are there many olinemen that can bulldoze, and still be agile,

quick with great balance, to handle stunts, and pull? I just don't know,

just wondering.

 

That's cool that you saw Josh being the best qb... Josh threw for just over 450 yards

vs the ratbirds last year - that's with a serious weakness in wr's. I will be rooting

for RGIII like crazy if he wins the starter nod. But not so fast. I'll be rooting for

Josh to play his last? year as the starter, with RGIII eventually getting it

all together. maybe.

 

Between the excellent coaches in place, and the obvious improvement in the wr corp...

the offense will be better like crazy. How good the first year, who knows.

 

Wish I could have made a practice with Canton Mike - but we had a busy weekend.

[Unsympathetic]

Looks like PFF agrees with your analysis of RG3. Reclamation project faceplant!

[The Gipper]

Good stuff Tia.

 

One not so surprising comment: Gilbert apparently still not "getting it". Since this guy was the choice of another regime, I doubt that this coaching staff has any loyalty to him or investment in him.....and may readily part ways with him.

 

Which first round was worse:

 

2012 with Richardson and Weeden

2014 with JFF and Gilbert

?

[calfoxwc]

I think the JM dumbass circus makes 2014 worst.

[Unsympathetic]

That CB from miami may turn out to be one of the best 7th round picks ever made by any Browns FO.. Only other remotely useful one I can think of is Armonty..

 

Relevant to the thread because Armonty was a 7th in 2013... and he is the only player from that entire draft playing an actual role. Mingo, the first rounder,remains a backup 3rd down player.

 

2013 may be the worst -- 2014 may still see a productive Gilbert, 2012 was terrible for nearly all the 1st round picks.

[Flugel]

Great write-up. Thanks bringing the action to us T!

[D Bone]

Every clip I see of Higgins looks like he is the real deal.... How did he look tia?

[Flugel]

Every clip I see of Higgins looks like he is the real deal.... How did he look tia?

 

I can't wait to see this guy play!

[tiamat63]

Every clip I see of Higgins looks like he is the real deal.... How did he look tia?

 

Like I said, he was the one that hit Gilbert with the step back.

 

Smooth footwork and a natural pass catcher. Probably will look to add more strength throughout the season, but then again that's true for almost any rookie.

Doesn't have elite speed at the top of the route, but more than makes up for it by having a complete tree, fighting through contact and being a smart player.

 

He settled down right and broke inside against (what looked like) an early down 3fire pressure. Broke inside instead of out, reading the CB's leverage, presented his numbers and McCown found him.

 

Very promising.

[D Bone]

^ Thanks!

[Zombo]

Going to try to condense my thoughts, it was difficult having such up tempo practices and then getting eyes to multiple positions groups. Going to try to get out to another camp. So these are what I caught. Not everything will be in order.

 

- As I said first, up tempo practices. 1st, 2nd and 3rd team reps fly in and out.

 

Defense -

 

Early looks had Danny exclusively at nose, rotations at the 3spot from Meder and Coop primarily. Hughes backed up Danny until I saw Stample come in.

 

-Ends in the four down looks ranged from Nassib at LE, Obga at RE. Then when there was rotation you saw Nate at RE with Obga playing some left. Only saw Obga in 2pt on one occasion. As I said, I don't expect him to be there much.

-Kruger got reps in on pass rush/protection drills, saw time at SLB and even a couple snaps at the MIKE. Thought he might just be there on a delayed blitz but no, he legitimately dropped underneath looking for crossers.

-Ogba and Nassib did not work with the linebackers once. Just hammering that point home. I don't see a player with the lateral agility to be effective at the position. Very one dimensional in his pass rush.

-Mingo is taller than I remember? Looks little heavier but nothing to write home about. Might just be carrying the weight better. Incredible burst but still has a penchant for picking a shoulder and taking himself out of plays. Mark my words, if there are successful cut backs when he's on the field, it will be to his side.

-Orchard stretch out plays well, looks to be maintaining outside leverage better. Likewise compliment to Nassib.

- Desir initially worked with the safeties. Then when they got looks from taller receivers, he played CB.

- I want to stress how vanilla the defense looked today. Coverage shells and looks were quite obvious, I can only recall a few times seeing combination coverages in 11 on 11. I'd say our looks were 95% 2 shell and then man 1.

- Danny himself looks a tad more trim. Hands weren't on his hips much, conditioning showed well.

- Gilbert. Still hasn't learned to keep his hands up pre-snap on a jam. Still plays high in his stance. He flat out got smoked twice today failing to get a hand on a receiver. Got hit with a nice stepback from Hollywood. I have my concerns.

- Kirksey was all over in 11 on 11. Had a couple nice open field tackles and blew up a TE screen as well.

- Front got solid pressure when we went to empty sets. But then again, we're supposed to do that.

- DB's don't look 'awful' ...but without Haden I can't say I was grinning ear to ear. Everybody in the crowd gave that familiar *sigh* when a deep ball didn't connect. I was the only person in my section actually encouraged to see DB's in pockets on occasion. Side note, I don't think these guys are being taught to play the ball in man coverage. Like....at all. Turnovers will come at a premium from this group.

- Haden was out doing a light job and sitting in with the DB's giving tips. Still clearly the general of the secondary.

 

Offense

 

- A fuck ton of motion. Even though most of the sets we ran today didn't have much variance. I saw motion in all of them.

- Full house motion to a gun trips open. Where-ever the slot receiver went, the corresponding outside receiver played off.

- Hawk is still tiny but clearly the leader of this group of receivers

- A fair amount of lateral running from the gun with backside pulls. I even saw a double pull at one point.

- Not many open side runs. A lot of power and strength calls.

- One of the checks at the line was 'Beyonce' (in a 6lineman package) I laughed because I think of booty when I hear queen B, turns out it was a check from a weakside to a strongside run following the 6th lineman (Bailey and/or Shon)

- Saw two pistol looks. Erving botched the snap on one. The second was a run/pass option. A read with a built in slant behind it.

- Corey Coleman got a nice go against press. However I only counted him running 3 different routes. Slant, a little hitch against zone and the 9. Four routes if you count a screen.

- Speaking of screens. Hue clearly wants our screen game to work. Coleman, Barney, Duke... all got chances in space with some interesting play designs off of motion.

- Pryor can be a god damn animal. Caught a badly underthrown ball from RG3. The route was to the outside and down, the ball was placed inside shoulder and short. He made a great adjustment against patterson. Also with a motion to an empty set got a good look right down the seam. I think one of the staples of the passing offense this year will be threatening safeties with his size leaving Hawk and Coleman outside working their way back underneath and into the middle of the field.

- McC is still the best thrower from the pocket on this team. Still the one making the quickest and best decisions. Robert miss a couple good matchups against obvious blitzes. Sure he broke contain and got yards with his legs, but you won't make your bones in the NFL for long like that. Josh is still the best 'QB' on roster as far as I'm concerned.

- Speaking QB's and skill sets. Didn't see any boot action or designed roll outs from RG3. A couple went Kessler's way but that was about it.

- Davis has a great throwing motion in person. Robert's is still a bit 3/4. Cody's arm is clearly not as good as the other 3 QB's. Wouldn't shock me that Kessler ends up on the practice squad.

- A nice little formation was the single back, tight right with a FB behind him. Misdirection and the wing crosses the formation to kick out the backside defender. I think 12 personnel might be our best bet this year. I still don't see a

true lead that can bulldoze a hole.

 

 

A have more thoughts but they're in my head and not on paper. Been up since 6:30. Going to get some sleep and try to get them out there before I head to work tomorrow.

Great stuff, T!

 

If McCown looks better than RG3 and Kessler looks like a practice squad player ... Then we didn't accomplish much in the off season.

 

BTW, Kessler won't be on the practice squad ... You gotta get cut to make the PS no way are we cutting out third round QB. He'll develop on the roster.

 

AD is the cut if everyone stays healthy.

 

Z

[Canton Mike]

Another thought about the offense....

Hue said the ENTIRE offense will be installed by Day 6 of TC. That's extremely fast as the past thinking in Cleveland seemed to always be "we're not going to throw it at 'em too fast" & often withhold some of the plays. What I love about this fast pace is that not only will the players have most of TC to learn, ask questions, & work hard on their individual trouble spots, but the Coaches will be able to better evaluate players' ability to absorb & apply what has been thrown at them. The 53 man roster should be far better prepared to enter the regular season.

Just my opinion.

 

Mike

[D Bone]

Another thought about the offense....

Hue said the ENTIRE offense will be installed by Day 6 of TC. That's extremely fast as the past thinking in Cleveland seemed to always be "we're not going to throw it at 'em too fast" & often withhold some of the plays. What I love about this fast pace is that not only will the players have most of TC to learn, ask questions, & work hard on their individual trouble spots, but the Coaches will be able to better evaluate players' ability to absorb & apply what has been thrown at them. The 53 man roster should be far better prepared to enter the regular season.

Just my opinion.

 

Mike

 

Totally agree. Find out early who can, and who can't handle the game, both from a physical and mental standpoint. Those that make the 53 should be the best and smartest 53 we could find.

[Flyin J]

Great stuff, T!

 

If McCown looks better than RG3 and Kessler looks like a practice squad player ... Then we didn't accomplish much in the off season.

 

BTW, Kessler won't be on the practice squad ... You gotta get cut to make the PS no way are we cutting out third round QB. He'll develop on the roster.

 

AD is the cut if everyone stays healthy.

 

Z

I fully predict a phantom injury to Kessler. He'll hurt a wrist or shoulder and spend the year on IR.

[gftChris]

I fully predict a phantom injury to Kessler. He'll hurt a wrist or shoulder and spend the year on IR.

Can't practise on IR.

[tiamat63]

Stuff I didn't have the time to post the other day.

 

- Energy from the coaching staff, especially on defense. These old boys get after it. It couldn't have been 10 minutes before I thought to myself 'I would love to play for coach'.

 

- I cannot stress up tempo enough. If you were at camp last year or 2014, this is rapid fire in comparison.

 

- Surprisingly not as much miscommunication as I expected. For some of the complications in shifts, I would expect a couple bad alignments. Only saw it 2 maybe 3 times, then only one false start on Cam. Which you could hear the entire line and RG3 give him some shit for it. I suspect the play call strings have been simplified and like I said earlier, aside from a couple wrinkles, only 4-5 different alignments were actually shown. Personnel groups were the main difference.

 

- Hue is a big believer in seam throws, and it shows. Barney, Bibbs and Pryor especially got work right down the middle. Our safeties we're clearly stressed about that.

 

- Hawk got more work outside than he did in the slot. He and Hollywood can work the sideline like the other receivers can't.

 

- Lots of quick stuff including fast developing screens to CC. Some of them weren't even screens. Just sight adjustments against obvious coverages.

 

- Robert has a pension for holding onto the ball too long. While the crowd was wow'ed by some of his scrambles, I felt like I was the only one to notice they would have been obvious sacks.

 

- Bailey at RT bothers me. Perhaps he's more accustomed to the left side from Seattle? Very hit and miss in pass pro. Surrendered a couple quick pressures to Nassib. He came in with the first team, then split some reps with Shon halfway through the session. I see Shon is still working on bending at the knees. He's looking better.

 

- Scooby got into a little scrap with JT. Which JT promptly put him in a headlock and Scoob went nowhere until he calmed down. Funny to watch. Again, he has that classic MIKE backer look. Compact, powerful and downhill.

 

- All of the RB's faired well in pass pro. Coach was in their ear about it the whole time during drills.

 

- Mingo has a nice inside swim/rip move that I hadn't seen before. Still no spin and plays higher than he should, but he showed it off once in drills.

 

- Orchard had a touch sack against Crow in Pass pro drills.. same for Kruger.

 

- Some of the young receivers had obvious tells on pass checks. Including tighting gloves, looking at where the route is supposed to go, switching up their stance on the next play. I would have to believe there is a lot of mental material there to go through with our receiver coaches. If Ocho is in camp, he needs to harp on that right away.