Did the New FO Find Enough Play Makers?

[Flugel]

In the doldrums of summer here, try to think what separated us from the Ravens when we last played them. It was 1 big play at the end of the game or was it not enough big plays leading up special teams deciding which team was going to win on the final play?

 

Teams that score TDs win more football games than teams playing for FGs. The team has Phil Dawson lost to us but Phil was perfect in that game with 1 FG the only time they were capable of putting points on the board. Back when they could score TDs far more consistently, they competed in Conference Championships and a Superbowl enough to appreciate they had Phil Dawson. Not much different than when we went 10-6 when we had a RB with 1300 yards and 10 TDs combining with a QB that threw 29 TD passes in 15 starts in 2007. Wow, I can even throw in the difference rookie Joe Thomas and veteran FA Eric Steinbach were making on the blind side of QB in 2007. Imagine that!

 

Let's take another look at the big play resumes of some of our 2016 draft class and see if we can agree with those premature conclusions that this front office refused to look for any play makers whatsoever:

 

1) JR WR Corey Coleman 5'11" 193 lbs. - 74 rec 1363 yds 18.4 avg 20 TDs.

All American and Biletnikoff Winner (as the nation's best WR). Had the best 40, 3 cone and vertical at Baylor to partially explain what's behind the productivity on the field. He didn't wear an Ohio State uniform though so how could he possibly measure up to Michael Thomas or Braxton Miller?

 

2) JR WR Rashard Higgins 6'2" 195 lbs. - 96 rec 1750 yds 18.2 avg 17 TDs soph & 75 rec 1062 yds 14.2 avg 8 TDs junior

Consensus All American in 2014 who led the nation in yards and TDs when he had an NFL prospect at QB before working with an inexperienced passer in 2015. The Head Coach McElwain also accepted a job at Florida in 2015. Higgins didn't wear an Ohio State uniform either so he's going to have to prove himself. Geee, I miss hotshots showing up here feeling entitled. There weren't any Gerard Warrens or Phil Taylors we could have had instead?

 

3) JR DE Emmanuel Ogbah 6'4" 275 lbs. - 13 sacks 17.5 Tackles for Loss (TFL) 3 Forced Fumb (FF)

All American and AP's Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year. That said, he was not an Ohio State Buckeye so we have to subtract 8 sacks and some tackles for losses and add 1 suspension to match the Joey Bosa level of special here. Bosa is the allegedly only edge rusher on the planet that has ever been chipped by TEs and found a RB in pass protection. Therefore Ogbah doesn't get to show up to the NFL feeling entitled in 2016 like Bosa.

 

4) SR DE Carl Nassib 6'6" 273 lbs - 15.5 sacks 19.5 TFL 6 FF

Led the nation in sacking the QB while he was pretty freakin productive at causing fumbles and tackling people in the backfield. Not bad for a guy who was told by Bill O'Brien not to bother thinking about the NFL. O'Brien went on to draft Jadevian Clowney #1 overall so he really knows how to size up what an inner chest projects there. Unfortunately, Nassib didn't play at Ohio State so we're supposed to understand none of that counts better than the Harvard intellects are capable of here.

 

5) JR LB Scooby Wright 6'1" 250 lbs - 14.5 sacks 29 TFL 6 FF as a soph (injured most of JR year)

If football was played on paper emphasizing fitness and prototypicals, this guy would start. Instead, it's played on the gridiron where 1st step instinct matters more than 40 times in a world where the average play lasts about 3-4 seconds. All that went on display when Scooby was the 2014 Pac 12 Defensive Player of the Year as a SOPH while winning the Bednarik, Lombardi and Nagurski Awards as well as earning All American honors. The 29 TFL led the nation even if they weren't at the Horseshoe. As much as I love Ohio State, I'd rather draft this guy in round 7 than another Craig Powell in the upper half of round 1. That said, Pepper Johnson never looked like he'd win any fitness awards but his ideal instincts sure helped our last playoff team to win a game in the post season win 11 regular season games.

 

6) SR LB Joe Schobert 6'2" 247 lbs - 9.5 sacks 19.5 TFL 5 FF

The LBer formerly known as White Men Can't Jump until 1 game changing basketball dunk video later. Not really a flashy guy commanding a lot of attention at Wisconsin so he was about as popular pre-draft to his position as Russell Wilson used to be at his position. Can this quiet guy off the field deliver a Joe Rassics-Bark with his pads on the field? Those are pretty impressive numbers flying under the radar that an aggressive Zone Blitzing DC might want to stealth attack offenses with.

 

7) SR QB Cody Kessler 6'1" 220 lbs - 10,399 yds 88 TDs 19 INTs 67.5 cmp% 3 years as starter

I realize I lost every single right to talk QBs here with my comment about seeing a future for Connor Shaw here. And now I'm bringing up the Kess? No wonder why I never knew the difference between Summer School and Summer's Cool. For those still reading, the Kess played for 5 different coaches before he impressed our brain trust and Hue. Maybe he can be what I thought Shaw was capable of becoming.

 

I don't know how many of these guys are ready sudden impact but they're only competing with talent that gave us 3 wins in 16 games. Some of that could be chalked up to inexperience, injuries and coaching. I once heard Bill Belichick describe Carl Banks in terms of it took him some time to get the position; but once he got it - it was well worth the time and patience invested in him. As it's been said, we have some 2nd year guys like Orchard, Shelton, and Cooper that might be ready to emerge. Whatever we add outside to our WR Corps should benefit Barnidge inside while he benefits them back. I see a common theme of blue collar work ethics that led to productive college resumes in the big play dept. It's a little better than hoping we can teach a 2nd round pick like Greg Little how to catch or hope he displays more courage in traffic than Danny Ferry.

 

There's other draftees I'm intrigued by that can help us on the line or with a situational role or a special teams duty. I just think as recently as 2014, our biggest hurdle to winning wasn't effort or even injury as much as it was play makers. If we can landed more play makers and stay a little healthier than we've been able to - there's no reason we can't win 1 more game than we won in 2014. I think we won 3 of 4 games without Alex Mack back then so can Alvin Bailey, Austin Pasztor or Shon Coleman/Spencer Drango/Joel Bitonio else play effectively at RT? We'll return 3 starters and have sufficient time to get people in the right places with an experienced coaching staff.

[One Post]

Of course time will tell.

 

I do believe the FO should've made a trade for Michael Flyod wr from Az. He is a good one and the Cards can't afford him after this season. He would look awesome in a Browns uni and can be the #1 receiver.

 

Also it's so important to have a run game. I hope this happens because in the ladder part of the season last year we ran the ball decent. But new coaches and turnover I hope they can. It's the hardest thing...running the ball and stopping the run that develope wins.

 

Look at it this way...since I've joined the board Cleveland got a championship. Maybe I'm good luck!

[Flugel]

Of course time will tell.

 

I do believe the FO should've made a trade for Michael Flyod wr from Az. He is a good one and the Cards can't afford him after this season. He would look awesome in a Browns uni and can be the #1 receiver.

 

Also it's so important to have a run game. I hope this happens because in the ladder part of the season last year we ran the ball decent. But new coaches and turnover I hope they can. It's the hardest thing...running the ball and stopping the run that develope wins.

 

Look at it this way...since I've joined the board Cleveland got a championship. Maybe I'm good luck!

 

There's no disputing Michael Floyd's talent; but my guess his little trend of DWIs will prevent us from trading anything worthwhile and/or throwing big $ at him. Keep in mind, we're still waiting to celebrate the 12th of Never on Josh Gordon here as Roger Goodfella decides how long the most recent dirty and tampered urine sample should be punished during his current suspension.

 

The difference between Gordon and Floyd is one guy has at least 2 brain cells on speaking terms while the other continues to flush a winning lottery ticket down the toilet every chance he gets.

[Canton Mike]

In the doldrums of summer here, try to think what separated us from the Ravens when we last played them. It was 1 big play at the end of the game or was it not enough big plays leading up special teams deciding which team was going to win on the final play?

 

Teams that score TDs win more football games than teams playing for FGs. The team has Phil Dawson lost to us but Phil was perfect in that game with 1 FG the only time they were capable of putting points on the board. Back when they could score TDs far more consistently, they competed in Conference Championships and a Superbowl enough to appreciate they had Phil Dawson. Not much different than when we went 10-6 when we had a RB with 1300 yards and 10 TDs combining with a QB that threw 29 TD passes in 15 starts in 2007. Wow, I can even throw in the difference rookie Joe Thomas and veteran FA Eric Steinbach were making on the blind side of QB in 2007. Imagine that!

 

Let's take another look at the big play resumes of some of our 2016 draft class and see if we can agree with those premature conclusions that this front office refused to look for any play makers whatsoever:

 

1) JR WR Corey Coleman 5'11" 193 lbs. - 74 rec 1363 yds 18.4 avg 20 TDs.

All American and Biletnikoff Winner (as the nation's best WR). Had the best 40, 3 cone and vertical at Baylor to partially explain what's behind the productivity on the field. He didn't wear an Ohio State uniform though so how could he possibly measure up to Michael Thomas or Braxton Miller?

 

2) JR WR Rashard Higgins 6'2" 195 lbs. - 96 rec 1750 yds 18.2 avg 17 TDs soph & 75 rec 1062 yds 14.2 avg 8 TDs junior

Consensus All American in 2014 who led the nation in yards and TDs when he had an NFL prospect at QB before working with an inexperienced passer in 2015. The Head Coach McElwain also accepted a job at Florida in 2015. Higgins didn't wear an Ohio State uniform either so he's going to have to prove himself. Geee, I miss hotshots showing up here feeling entitled. There weren't any Gerard Warrens or Phil Taylors we could have had instead?

 

3) JR DE Emmanuel Ogbah 6'4" 275 lbs. - 13 sacks 17.5 Tackles for Loss (TFL) 3 Forced Fumb (FF)

All American and AP's Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year. That said, he was not an Ohio State Buckeye so we have to subtract 8 sacks and some tackles for losses and add 1 suspension to match the Joey Bosa level of special here. Bosa is the allegedly only edge rusher on the planet that has ever been chipped by TEs and found a RB in pass protection. Therefore Ogbah doesn't get to show up to the NFL feeling entitled in 2016 like Bosa.

 

4) SR DE Carl Nassib 6'6" 273 lbs - 15.5 sacks 19.5 TFL 6 FF

Led the nation in sacking the QB while he was pretty freakin productive at causing fumbles and tackling people in the backfield. Not bad for a guy who was told by Bill O'Brien not to bother thinking about the NFL. O'Brien went on to draft Jadevian Clowney #1 overall so he really knows how to size up what an inner chest projects there. Unfortunately, Nassib didn't play at Ohio State so we're supposed to understand none of that counts better than the Harvard intellects are capable of here.

 

5) JR LB Scooby Wright 6'1" 250 lbs - 14.5 sacks 29 TFL 6 FF as a soph (injured most of JR year)

If football was played on paper emphasizing fitness and prototypicals, this guy would start. Instead, it's played on the gridiron where 1st step instinct matters more than 40 times in a world where the average play lasts about 3-4 seconds. All that went on display when Scooby was the 2014 Pac 12 Defensive Player of the Year as a SOPH while winning the Bednarik, Lombardi and Nagurski Awards as well as earning All American honors. The 29 TFL led the nation even if they weren't at the Horseshoe. As much as I love Ohio State, I'd rather draft this guy in round 7 than another Craig Powell in the upper half of round 1. That said, Pepper Johnson never looked like he'd win any fitness awards but his ideal instincts sure helped our last playoff team to win a game in the post season win 11 regular season games.

 

6) SR LB Joe Schobert 6'2" 247 lbs - 9.5 sacks 19.5 TFL 5 FF

The LBer formerly known as White Men Can't Jump until 1 game changing basketball dunk video later. Not really a flashy guy commanding a lot of attention at Wisconsin so he was about as popular pre-draft to his position as Russell Wilson used to be at his position. Can this quiet guy off the field deliver a Joe Rassics-Bark with his pads on the field? Those are pretty impressive numbers flying under the radar that an aggressive Zone Blitzing DC might want to stealth attack offenses with.

 

7) SR QB Cody Kessler 6'1" 220 lbs - 10,399 yds 88 TDs 19 INTs 67.5 cmp% 3 years as starter

I realize I lost every single right to talk QBs here with my comment about seeing a future for Connor Shaw here. And now I'm bringing up the Kess? No wonder why I never knew the difference between Summer School and Summer's Cool. For those still reading, the Kess played for 5 different coaches before he impressed our brain trust and Hue. Maybe he can be what I thought Shaw was capable of becoming.

 

I don't know how many of these guys are ready sudden impact but they're only competing with talent that gave us 3 wins in 16 games. Some of that could be chalked up to inexperience, injuries and coaching. I once heard Bill Belichick describe Carl Banks in terms of it took him some time to get the position; but once he got it - it was well worth the time and patience invested in him. As it's been said, we have some 2nd year guys like Orchard, Shelton, and Cooper that might be ready to emerge. Whatever we add outside to our WR Corps should benefit Barnidge inside while he benefits them back. I see a common theme of blue collar work ethics that led to productive college resumes in the big play dept. It's a little better than hoping we can teach a 2nd round pick like Greg Little how to catch or hope he displays more courage in traffic than Danny Ferry.

 

There's other draftees I'm intrigued by that can help us on the line or with a situational role or a special teams duty. I just think as recently as 2014, our biggest hurdle to winning wasn't effort or even injury as much as it was play makers. If we can landed more play makers and stay a little healthier than we've been able to - there's no reason we can't win 1 more game than we won in 2014. I think we won 3 of 4 games without Alex Mack back then so can Alvin Bailey, Austin Pasztor or Shon Coleman/Spencer Drango/Joel Bitonio else play effectively at RT? We'll return 3 starters and have sufficient time to get people in the right places with an experienced coaching staff.

 

Of course we'll have to wait & see how their college production transfers to the NFL, but the guys you mention all are passionate, high character players bringing track records of being play makers to this level. We also have a REAL coaching staff to TEACH them & we don't have to babysit any of 'em to make sure they're available (ie not suspended).

 

Mike

[Tour2ma]

We added some nice pieces.

 

We have yet to nail down the QB position.

[calfoxwc]

In the doldrums of summer here, try to think what separated us from the Ravens when we last played them. It was 1 big play at the end of the game or was it not enough big plays leading up special teams deciding which team was going to win on the final play?

 

Teams that score TDs win more football games than teams playing for FGs. The team has Phil Dawson lost to us but Phil was perfect in that game with 1 FG the only time they were capable of putting points on the board. Back when they could score TDs far more consistently, they competed in Conference Championships and a Superbowl enough to appreciate they had Phil Dawson. Not much different than when we went 10-6 when we had a RB with 1300 yards and 10 TDs combining with a QB that threw 29 TD passes in 15 starts in 2007. Wow, I can even throw in the difference rookie Joe Thomas and veteran FA Eric Steinbach were making on the blind side of QB in 2007. Imagine that!

 

Let's take another look at the big play resumes of some of our 2016 draft class and see if we can agree with those premature conclusions that this front office refused to look for any play makers whatsoever:

 

1) JR WR Corey Coleman 5'11" 193 lbs. - 74 rec 1363 yds 18.4 avg 20 TDs.

All American and Biletnikoff Winner (as the nation's best WR). Had the best 40, 3 cone and vertical at Baylor to partially explain what's behind the productivity on the field. He didn't wear an Ohio State uniform though so how could he possibly measure up to Michael Thomas or Braxton Miller?

 

2) JR WR Rashard Higgins 6'2" 195 lbs. - 96 rec 1750 yds 18.2 avg 17 TDs soph & 75 rec 1062 yds 14.2 avg 8 TDs junior

Consensus All American in 2014 who led the nation in yards and TDs when he had an NFL prospect at QB before working with an inexperienced passer in 2015. The Head Coach McElwain also accepted a job at Florida in 2015. Higgins didn't wear an Ohio State uniform either so he's going to have to prove himself. Geee, I miss hotshots showing up here feeling entitled. There weren't any Gerard Warrens or Phil Taylors we could have had instead?

 

3) JR DE Emmanuel Ogbah 6'4" 275 lbs. - 13 sacks 17.5 Tackles for Loss (TFL) 3 Forced Fumb (FF)

All American and AP's Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year. That said, he was not an Ohio State Buckeye so we have to subtract 8 sacks and some tackles for losses and add 1 suspension to match the Joey Bosa level of special here. Bosa is the allegedly only edge rusher on the planet that has ever been chipped by TEs and found a RB in pass protection. Therefore Ogbah doesn't get to show up to the NFL feeling entitled in 2016 like Bosa.

 

4) SR DE Carl Nassib 6'6" 273 lbs - 15.5 sacks 19.5 TFL 6 FF

Led the nation in sacking the QB while he was pretty freakin productive at causing fumbles and tackling people in the backfield. Not bad for a guy who was told by Bill O'Brien not to bother thinking about the NFL. O'Brien went on to draft Jadevian Clowney #1 overall so he really knows how to size up what an inner chest projects there. Unfortunately, Nassib didn't play at Ohio State so we're supposed to understand none of that counts better than the Harvard intellects are capable of here.

 

5) JR LB Scooby Wright 6'1" 250 lbs - 14.5 sacks 29 TFL 6 FF as a soph (injured most of JR year)

If football was played on paper emphasizing fitness and prototypicals, this guy would start. Instead, it's played on the gridiron where 1st step instinct matters more than 40 times in a world where the average play lasts about 3-4 seconds. All that went on display when Scooby was the 2014 Pac 12 Defensive Player of the Year as a SOPH while winning the Bednarik, Lombardi and Nagurski Awards as well as earning All American honors. The 29 TFL led the nation even if they weren't at the Horseshoe. As much as I love Ohio State, I'd rather draft this guy in round 7 than another Craig Powell in the upper half of round 1. That said, Pepper Johnson never looked like he'd win any fitness awards but his ideal instincts sure helped our last playoff team to win a game in the post season win 11 regular season games.

 

6) SR LB Joe Schobert 6'2" 247 lbs - 9.5 sacks 19.5 TFL 5 FF

The LBer formerly known as White Men Can't Jump until 1 game changing basketball dunk video later. Not really a flashy guy commanding a lot of attention at Wisconsin so he was about as popular pre-draft to his position as Russell Wilson used to be at his position. Can this quiet guy off the field deliver a Joe Rassics-Bark with his pads on the field? Those are pretty impressive numbers flying under the radar that an aggressive Zone Blitzing DC might want to stealth attack offenses with.

 

7) SR QB Cody Kessler 6'1" 220 lbs - 10,399 yds 88 TDs 19 INTs 67.5 cmp% 3 years as starter

I realize I lost every single right to talk QBs here with my comment about seeing a future for Connor Shaw here. And now I'm bringing up the Kess? No wonder why I never knew the difference between Summer School and Summer's Cool. For those still reading, the Kess played for 5 different coaches before he impressed our brain trust and Hue. Maybe he can be what I thought Shaw was capable of becoming.

 

I don't know how many of these guys are ready sudden impact but they're only competing with talent that gave us 3 wins in 16 games. Some of that could be chalked up to inexperience, injuries and coaching. I once heard Bill Belichick describe Carl Banks in terms of it took him some time to get the position; but once he got it - it was well worth the time and patience invested in him. As it's been said, we have some 2nd year guys like Orchard, Shelton, and Cooper that might be ready to emerge. Whatever we add outside to our WR Corps should benefit Barnidge inside while he benefits them back. I see a common theme of blue collar work ethics that led to productive college resumes in the big play dept. It's a little better than hoping we can teach a 2nd round pick like Greg Little how to catch or hope he displays more courage in traffic than Danny Ferry.

 

There's other draftees I'm intrigued by that can help us on the line or with a situational role or a special teams duty. I just think as recently as 2014, our biggest hurdle to winning wasn't effort or even injury as much as it was play makers. If we can landed more play makers and stay a little healthier than we've been able to - there's no reason we can't win 1 more game than we won in 2014. I think we won 3 of 4 games without Alex Mack back then so can Alvin Bailey, Austin Pasztor or Shon Coleman/Spencer Drango/Joel Bitonio else play effectively at RT? We'll return 3 starters and have sufficient time to get people in the right places with an experienced coaching staff.

Eggselent writeup, Flugs !

 

I look at the last Browns draft - and I see that they drafted kids who LOVE the game, have the character and work ethic

to really go after winning and being a part of a TEAM, and who were terrific in college.

 

I'll take these wr's anytime - over a physical thoroughbred racehorse like a Braylon Edwards or a Josh Gordon -

two guys who weren't all that into it, with them, it was always about...them. All that talent, and not hearts to match.

 

A lot of teams passed up Antonio Brown for five rounds. But Antonio Brown was a football PLAYER who had the smarts,

and the love for football, and the ability to make things happen on the field, to be part of a team, and the character

to stay on the freaking field.

 

I look at this last draft, and I see football PLAYERS who will be excellent parts of a team, and who can surprise

everybody else who drafted some racehorses ahead of them.

[TexasAg1969]

Eggselent writeup, Flugs !

 

I look at the last Browns draft - and I see that they drafted kids who LOVE the game, have the character and work ethic

to really go after winning and being a part of a TEAM, and who were terrific in college.

 

I'll take these wr's anytime - over a physical thoroughbred racehorse like a Braylon Edwards or a Josh Gordon -

two guys who weren't all that into it, with them, it was always about...them. All that talent, and not hearts to match.

 

A lot of teams passed up Antonio Brown for five rounds. But Antonio Brown was a football PLAYER who had the smarts,

and the love for football, and the ability to make things happen on the field, to be part of a team, and the character

to stay on the freaking field.

 

I look at this last draft, and I see football PLAYERS who will be excellent parts of a team, and who can surprise

everybody else who drafted some racehorses ahead of them.

 

I think that is really why I had wanted us to bring in Henry. He has always been the hardest worker on every team he has ever been a part of and has always done exactly what was expected from his coaches. Very high character guy with bulldozing talent to boot.

[Canton Mike]

 

I think that is really why I had wanted us to bring in Henry. He has always been the hardest worker on every team he has ever been a part of and has always done exactly what was expected from his coaches. Very high character guy with bulldozing talent to boot.

 

I'm interested in what Henry will do in the NFL too. He seems to be different than than Alabama backs we have seen in recent years.

 

Mike

[D Bone]

I was head of my class in Summer's Cool

[Orion]

Did the New FO Find Enough Play Makers?

 

...dunno....we've gotta see them perform in pre-season.

 

They went after players that were productive in college. That's a concept! Hard working, decent charactered, productive players.

Lets give that a shot and see how many of the 14 has their college production translate to the NFL.

 

(I enjoy reading your posts)

[One Post]

There's no disputing Michael Floyd's talent; but my guess his little trend of DWIs will prevent us from trading anything worthwhile and/or throwing big $ at him. Keep in mind, we're still waiting to celebrate the 12th of Never on Josh Gordon here as Roger Goodfella decides how long the most recent dirty and tampered urine sample should be punished during his current suspension.

 

The difference between Gordon and Floyd is one guy has at least 2 brain cells on speaking terms while the other continues to flush a winning lottery ticket down the toilet every chance he gets.

 

All Floyd's troubles are behind him as Josh's are still happening.

[htownbrown]

Just curious if anyone believes Mr. Gordon will be reinstated on August 2nd? Suspended for pot, suspended for beer, not reinstated for a masking agent or dillution.......at least he's covering the gamut of possibilities. PEDS next? Any off the wall yet plausible predictions? At this point getting reinstated seems the least likely.

[jiggins7919]

Nobody has any plausible expectations because nobody has any information. The ONLY tiny bit of info we have is from a brief statement made by Jim Brown in which he explained he maintained contact with Josh and he thought he might have been in rehab. That's about it.

 

We can guess all day long what we THINK will happen, but we don't even know if our front office will welcome the guy back. I get the feeling that we don't want any distractions on our team, and Josh would definitely be a source of constant media attention. The interesting thing is, the NFL went completely out of their way to leave the door open to Josh returning. It was kind of strange. If Josh has done everything the commissioner requested, and is now completely ready to take accountability for his actions...then yes, I believe he will be reinstated.

 

But, the question of whether or not he'll be on our team still exists. It's safe to say we need Josh Gordon. We don't have anyone else like him on our roster (few teams do), we are desperate for players that can score touchdowns, and we are further desperate to add players to our roster that will facilitate the progress of RG III. One sure way to increase the production of a struggling QB is to have guys that can get open. Josh gets open so easily with only mediocre route running. God help NFL defenses if he ever settles down and hones his craft.

 

Josh is eligible to APPLY for reinstatement after August 1st, but nobody knows how long that process will take. His previous application took way longer than expected, but perhaps that was due to some test results being questioned. The feeling I get is that Josh's application will processed quickly. The commissioner is going to know right away whether or not he has done what was asked of him. So let's say the application gets processed quickly and Josh is reinstated around August 20th. He's missed most of camp and preseason games are coming up. He won't know a thing about our offense or the coaches. He'll be completely lost. Is it worth it to keep him on the roster and take a slot away from a guy who worked his ass off the entire year? Tough call. I say yes.

[gumby73]

Just curious if anyone believes Mr. Gordon will be reinstated on August 2nd? Any off the wall yet plausible predictions? At this point getting reinstated seems the least likely.

Almost time for Roger Goodell & his henchman to turn into Zoltar from the movie Big. I believe even if Josh pisses clean, Roger wants to see some rehab time spent from Josh with repeated violations? Josh nor agent could figure out when he could drink with written instructions. I say there is more hidden speed-bumps either discussed prior with or to come from league? With the sudden disappearance of Josh, I say he pisses clean though, just a he(u)nch

[jiggins7919]

Htown...that's a good point about Josh "disappearing". Josh is generally active on social media, and I don't remember him posting ANYTHING lately. Is it because he's getting treatment? Did commissioner recommend him to stay away from social media and other players who could be bad influences? I've always liked Josh. No secret there. He's a likeable guy and someone who made his fair share of mistakes, but also a guy who has suffered some rather large consequences for actions that aren't too severe (except for DUI...that's serious). I root for him and want him to fulfill his dreams. He has so much talent...

[Tour2ma]

Should any of our recent "disappointments" contribute, they would just be icing on the cake.

 

Our Class of 2016, this org's Class of 2016, has to be the wellspring of this season's positives.

[gftChris]

Should any of our recent "disappointments" contribute, they would just be icing on the cake.

 

Our Class of 2016, this org's Class of 2016, has to be the wellspring of this season's positives.

Classes of '15, 16' and '17 - Shelton, Erving, Orchard, Johnson all have the potential to be big contributors to the team, along with Coleman/Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib, Schobert. Here's to the Eagles going 0-16 and us getting the next great QB hope.

[Flugel]

Just curious if anyone believes Mr. Gordon will be reinstated on August 2nd?

 

If so, I have some land for sale in Alligator Alley...

[miktoxic]

simple answer to your question:

 

NO

[Tour2ma]

Shelton, Erving, Orchard, Johnson all have the potential to be big contributors to the team...

 

True, yet matters less as they were inherited. Should they develop, then that says our staff may be solid... but Erving was the only obvious bust of the four you listed.

 

That's why for me the real test is the rookie crop. We can have an all-world staff, but without a solid FO to feed them talent year after year, it won't matter.

[Flugel]

 

...dunno....we've gotta see them perform in pre-season.

 

They went after players that were productive in college. That's a concept! Hard working, decent charactered, productive players.

Lets give that a shot and see how many of the 14 has their college production translate to the NFL.

 

(I enjoy reading your posts)

 

Thanks Orion!

 

I like your point about what the front office looked for in the horse they are betting on. Some of the guys also had tested well in the workouts/combines in the assessments measuring explosion like the jumps.

 

In comparison, Farmer didn't even care enough to consider what Gilbert's college coaching staff thought of his work ethic and passion for the game. How much did that end up sucking for us? Corners are a last tier of defense so it's a pretty bad place to be a bad tackler. It's also a bad place for a guy who isn't open to coaching.

[miktoxic]

courtney brown:

• Consensus All-American (1999)
• First-team All-Big Ten (1998, 1999)
• Big Ten Lineman of the Year (1999)
• Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year (1999)
• Outback Bowl Most Valuable Player (1999)
• USA Today High School All-American (1995)

Brown attended Pennsylvania State University, where he played for coach Joe Paterno's Penn State Nittany Lions football team from 1996 to 2000. At Penn State, he was teammates with LaVar Arrington and Brandon Short. As senior in 1999, he was a first-team All-Big Ten selection, and was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American.^[2] Brown earned the Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Defensive Linemen of the Year honors in his senior year. He was also a finalist for three national awards: Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Chuck Bednarik Award and Lombardi Award. He finished his college career with a NCAA record-breaking 33 quarterback sacks and 70 tackles for a loss.

 

 

trent richardson:

• 2× BCS National Champion (2009, 2011)
• Unanimous All-American (2011)
• Doak Walker Award (2011)
• SEC Offensive Player of the Year (2011)
• 2× First-team All-SEC (2010, 2011)
• SEC Champion (2009)
• SEC All-Freshman Team (2009)
• USA Today High School All-American (2008)

 

By March 2012, Richardson was widely projected to be a top six draft choice,^[34][35][36] with the Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and St. Louis Rams rumored to be most interested in selecting him.^[37][38] Former Colts vice chairman Bill Polian called him one of the "three sure-thing players" in the 2012 draft.^[39]

 

johnny manziel:

 

• Heisman Trophy (2012)
• Davey O'Brien Award (2012)
• Manning Award (2012)
• Chic Harley Award (2012)
• AP Player of the Year (2012)
• Sporting News Player of the Year (2012)
• Consensus All-American (2012)
• SEC Offensive Player of the Year (2012)
• First-team All-SEC (2012, 2013)
• Cotton Bowl Offensive MVP (2012)
• SEC Male Athlete of the Year (2013)
• Chick-fil-A Bowl Offensive MVP (2013)

In January 2014, Manziel announced that he would forgo his junior season and enter the 2014 NFL Draft.^[45] He was projected to be a first-round pick, and as of January 15, 2014, his draft stock was reported to be rising by a consensus of experts who had him pegged as a top-5 pick.^[46] Manziel elected to throw during Texas A&M's Pro Day on March 27, 2014, instead of during the NFL Combine. During his pro day, Manziel completed 64 of 66 passes to six different receivers. His pro day performance was well received by sports journalists.^{[47][48][49][50]}

 

 

barkevious mingo:

 

Mingo attended Louisiana State University, and played for coach Les Miles' LSU Tigers football team from 2009 to 2012. He was redshirted in 2009. As a redshirt freshman in 2010, he started one of 13 games, recording 35 tackles and 3.5 sacks. As a sophomore in 2011, Mingo was a second all-SEC selection after recording 47 tackles and 8 sacks.^[4] As a junior in 2012, he played in all 13 games with 10 starts, and earned second team All-SEC honors after recording 38 tackles, 8.5 tackles for a loss, and 4.5 quarterback sacks. He also led the Tigers with 12 quarterback hurries.

 

sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

 

been there. done that.

 

tom. love your enthusiasm brother. maybe a shot of that southern styled hooch might bring me around if i get a chance to roll thru tenn later for the tailgate and meet you droogs. until then.....

 

"me, i'm just a lawnmower. you can tell me by the way i walk."

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

courtney brown:

• Consensus All-American (1999)
• First-team All-Big Ten (1998, 1999)
• Big Ten Lineman of the Year (1999)
• Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year (1999)
• Outback Bowl Most Valuable Player (1999)
• USA Today High School All-American (1995)

Brown attended Pennsylvania State University, where he played for coach Joe Paterno's Penn State Nittany Lions football team from 1996 to 2000. At Penn State, he was teammates with LaVar Arrington and Brandon Short. As senior in 1999, he was a first-team All-Big Ten selection, and was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American.^[2] Brown earned the Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Defensive Linemen of the Year honors in his senior year. He was also a finalist for three national awards: Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Chuck Bednarik Award and Lombardi Award. He finished his college career with a NCAA record-breaking 33 quarterback sacks and 70 tackles for a loss.

 

 

trent richardson:

• 2× BCS National Champion (2009, 2011)
• Unanimous All-American (2011)
• Doak Walker Award (2011)
• SEC Offensive Player of the Year (2011)
• 2× First-team All-SEC (2010, 2011)
• SEC Champion (2009)
• SEC All-Freshman Team (2009)
• USA Today High School All-American (2008)

 

By March 2012, Richardson was widely projected to be a top six draft choice,^[34][35][36] with the Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and St. Louis Rams rumored to be most interested in selecting him.^[37][38] Former Colts vice chairman Bill Polian called him one of the "three sure-thing players" in the 2012 draft.^[39]

 

johnny manziel:

 

• Heisman Trophy (2012)
• Davey O'Brien Award (2012)
• Manning Award (2012)
• Chic Harley Award (2012)
• AP Player of the Year (2012)
• Sporting News Player of the Year (2012)
• Consensus All-American (2012)
• SEC Offensive Player of the Year (2012)
• First-team All-SEC (2012, 2013)
• Cotton Bowl Offensive MVP (2012)
• SEC Male Athlete of the Year (2013)
• Chick-fil-A Bowl Offensive MVP (2013)

In January 2014, Manziel announced that he would forgo his junior season and enter the 2014 NFL Draft.^[45] He was projected to be a first-round pick, and as of January 15, 2014, his draft stock was reported to be rising by a consensus of experts who had him pegged as a top-5 pick.^[46] Manziel elected to throw during Texas A&M's Pro Day on March 27, 2014, instead of during the NFL Combine. During his pro day, Manziel completed 64 of 66 passes to six different receivers. His pro day performance was well received by sports journalists.^{[47][48][49][50]}

 

 

barkevious mingo:

 

Mingo attended Louisiana State University, and played for coach Les Miles' LSU Tigers football team from 2009 to 2012. He was redshirted in 2009. As a redshirt freshman in 2010, he started one of 13 games, recording 35 tackles and 3.5 sacks. As a sophomore in 2011, Mingo was a second all-SEC selection after recording 47 tackles and 8 sacks.^[4] As a junior in 2012, he played in all 13 games with 10 starts, and earned second team All-SEC honors after recording 38 tackles, 8.5 tackles for a loss, and 4.5 quarterback sacks. He also led the Tigers with 12 quarterback hurries.

 

sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

 

been there. done that.

 

tom. love your enthusiasm brother. maybe a shot of that southern styled hooch might bring me around if i get a chance to roll thru tenn later for the tailgate and meet you droogs. until then.....

 

"me, i'm just a lawnmower. you can tell me by the way i walk."

 

All these pics (except for Manziel) were widely applauded by most on this here board.

[miktoxic]

only one i applauded was mingo. hated the others.

[Flugel]

courtney brown:

• Consensus All-American (1999)
• First-team All-Big Ten (1998, 1999)
• Big Ten Lineman of the Year (1999)
• Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year (1999)
• Outback Bowl Most Valuable Player (1999)
• USA Today High School All-American (1995)

Brown attended Pennsylvania State University, where he played for coach Joe Paterno's Penn State Nittany Lions football team from 1996 to 2000. At Penn State, he was teammates with LaVar Arrington and Brandon Short. As senior in 1999, he was a first-team All-Big Ten selection, and was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American.^[2] Brown earned the Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Defensive Linemen of the Year honors in his senior year. He was also a finalist for three national awards: Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Chuck Bednarik Award and Lombardi Award. He finished his college career with a NCAA record-breaking 33 quarterback sacks and 70 tackles for a loss.

 

 

trent richardson:

• 2× BCS National Champion (2009, 2011)
• Unanimous All-American (2011)
• Doak Walker Award (2011)
• SEC Offensive Player of the Year (2011)
• 2× First-team All-SEC (2010, 2011)
• SEC Champion (2009)
• SEC All-Freshman Team (2009)
• USA Today High School All-American (2008)

 

By March 2012, Richardson was widely projected to be a top six draft choice,^[34][35][36] with the Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and St. Louis Rams rumored to be most interested in selecting him.^[37][38] Former Colts vice chairman Bill Polian called him one of the "three sure-thing players" in the 2012 draft.^[39]

 

johnny manziel:

 

• Heisman Trophy (2012)
• Davey O'Brien Award (2012)
• Manning Award (2012)
• Chic Harley Award (2012)
• AP Player of the Year (2012)
• Sporting News Player of the Year (2012)
• Consensus All-American (2012)
• SEC Offensive Player of the Year (2012)
• First-team All-SEC (2012, 2013)
• Cotton Bowl Offensive MVP (2012)
• SEC Male Athlete of the Year (2013)
• Chick-fil-A Bowl Offensive MVP (2013)

In January 2014, Manziel announced that he would forgo his junior season and enter the 2014 NFL Draft.^[45] He was projected to be a first-round pick, and as of January 15, 2014, his draft stock was reported to be rising by a consensus of experts who had him pegged as a top-5 pick.^[46] Manziel elected to throw during Texas A&M's Pro Day on March 27, 2014, instead of during the NFL Combine. During his pro day, Manziel completed 64 of 66 passes to six different receivers. His pro day performance was well received by sports journalists.^{[47][48][49][50]}

 

 

barkevious mingo:

 

Mingo attended Louisiana State University, and played for coach Les Miles' LSU Tigers football team from 2009 to 2012. He was redshirted in 2009. As a redshirt freshman in 2010, he started one of 13 games, recording 35 tackles and 3.5 sacks. As a sophomore in 2011, Mingo was a second all-SEC selection after recording 47 tackles and 8 sacks.^[4] As a junior in 2012, he played in all 13 games with 10 starts, and earned second team All-SEC honors after recording 38 tackles, 8.5 tackles for a loss, and 4.5 quarterback sacks. He also led the Tigers with 12 quarterback hurries.

 

sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

 

been there. done that.

 

tom. love your enthusiasm brother. maybe a shot of that southern styled hooch might bring me around if i get a chance to roll thru tenn later for the tailgate and meet you droogs. until then.....

 

"me, i'm just a lawnmower. you can tell me by the way i walk."

 

 

It would be fun to get you down here Mik!

 

Let's hope this front office bet on the right horses. I can't blame the current front office for what happened with Trent Richardson or Courtney Brown. But I can say instead of trading up to lose a pick for a guy like Richardson or placing all our marbles into Courtney Brown at #1 (ie; trading out of #2), the current front office traded back to add more picks to our overall draft volumes in 2016 and 2017 (inclusive of adding a 1st round pick next year) while rolling the dice on the productive prospects I spoke of.

[Flugel]

All these pics (except for Manziel) were widely applauded by most on this here board.

 

The record spike in season ticket sales within a 48-72 hour period after Manziel was drafted, says he was widely applauded outside of this board. I'm not going to lie, I was excited we drafted him before I wasn't shy in voicing my disappointment in him about what he was prioritizing over football here.

 

I remembered a lot of fans back on our first board that preferred Arrington to Brown. I was one of them. I posted up how Michigan refused to feed Courtney's backside clampdowns for losses by running right at Courtney Brown's olay/swim move throughout long, sustained scoring drives that allowed Michigan to dominate time of possession and beat Penn State. My feeling is NFL OCs wouldn't take long to discover a weakness like Courtney had against the point of attack coming at him. The majority of his TFL came from the backside clampdowns when he wasn't even blocked.

[Tour2ma]

Wouldn't that be true of most TFLs for DL?

 

 

Although I was excited by our '99 return, I had neither the time and the burning interest then to form an opinion on Courtney.

 

TR? I was luke-warm on him. Did not mind the pick... thought he would fare better than the previous BAMA wunderback, Ingram (kinda whiffed on that one)... but hated the trade up for him. But even at #3 I thought there was better value on the board including a trade-down.

 

JM? Pretty sure I am on record with hating that one... bore a hater-in-chief label as a result for a couple years. But I'm still here while nearly every labeler (libeller?) is not...

[Flugel]

Wouldn't that be true of most TFLs for DL?

 

Maybe with upfield 1 gap guys to an extent like Robert Quinn or Dwight Freeney for example. Bruce Smith made a lot of tackles for a loss on the playside as well as backside clampdowns vrs offenses that didn't hinge him off. For some reason, the NY Giants were intrigued by the SB matchup of Jumbo Elliot vrs Bruce Smith's upfield moves in the running game. 2 SB record length scoring drives exceeding 11 minutes and 13 minutes via 3 yards and a cloud of dust by OJ Anderson running behind Elliott at Smith for a larger percentage of time than anyone would have predicted turned out to be an ideal strategy for keeping Jim Kelly's No Huddle offense sidelined.

 

That said, I've seen guys like Richard Seymore, Haloti Ngata, Brett Keisel, JJ Watt, Casey Hampton, Sam Adams, Tony Siragusa, Aaron Smith, T. Suggs, Kyle Williams blowing up countless playside runs in the backfield. Reggie White made countless tackles in the backfield on playside without olay moves. We had a pretty good running game in 2014; but JJ Watt stymied so many plays in our backfield on the playside right at/after the handoff well before our RBs had the chance for the cutback they were accustomed to making.

 

Although I was excited by our '99 return, I had neither the time and the burning interest then to form an opinion on Courtney.

 

In 99, we chose Couch over McNabb in the NFL draft and Scott Milanovich over Kurt Warner in the expansion draft. In 2000, we chose Courtney Brown over Lavar Arrington.

 

TR? I was luke-warm on him. Did not mind the pick... thought he would fare better than the previous BAMA wunderback, Ingram (kinda whiffed on that one)... but hated the trade up for him. But even at #3 I thought there was better value on the board including a trade-down.

 

That guy had a huge consensus of approval among the well paid draft analysts covering the draft and throughout the majority of mock drafts. I'm not sure why it was ever necessary to trade up with the team that had Adrian Peterson holding the 3rd overall pick but that's what we did like prior years. We traded up for Winslow when we could have stayed put or traded back for Ben Roethlisberger. We could have traded back for Aaron Rodgers instead of listening to Savage tell us Braylon was the safest pick in the draft at #3 overall.

 

JM? Pretty sure I am on record with hating that one... bore a hater-in-chief label as a result for a couple years. But I'm still here while nearly every labeler (libeller?) is not...

 

You're a lot better than I am. You thoroughly research the draft and treat us to some great write-ups. I was excited about Manziel's football skills and naive about how much the football would take a back seat to the out of control party animal. Living in Western, NY I saw first hand that an Irish party animal like Jim Kelly could still function and play QB in a game he loved. Therefore, I didn't think it would be any different for Johnny Manziel. I was WRONG! It's a good thing social media wasn't around when Kelly hit the Elmwood strip in Buffalo including some Saturday nights before Sunday home games. My Step mother who was VP of Nursing at Sisters of Charity Hospital in Buffalo prior to HIPPA said Kelly's girl friend (who is now his wife) showed up to their emergency room 3 different times badly beaten. My buddy who bounced at a bar said Kelly used to grab her and shove her around all the time when he got liquored up. It's a good thing some people change or grow up. Since then, he's done a lot of good stuff in the community, survived cancer with a wife that never gave up on "for better or worse"when she had countless reasons to. It seems like they arrived at the relationship she always wanted. Manziel came to us even younger than Kelly arrived in Buffalo. He only completed 2 seasons of college.

 

I think we all wanted either Sammy Watkins or Khalil Mack over Justin Gilbert.

[The Gipper]

sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

been there. done that.

Mik: I'm your Huckleberry when it comes to this opinion.

[miktoxic]

love the quantity of picks this FO could squeeze out BUT don't you have to (sometimes) go all in on a player? i know the record for the browns is not good as far as picking from #10 up is concerned.......gonna have to do it again, soon.