Tour2ma Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 There's still a little too much "we are going to turn this around thru FA" going around here. It's clear to anyone paying attention that the draft will be our primary route. Until Clevelands reputation improves we are going to have to overpay to keep our best players and attract top talent. I will be really disappointed if we don't sign Collins and Pryor. You can't build a winning team and culture if you can't keep your best players. Didn't it make anyone else sick to be seeing so many ex-Browns in the playoffs this past weekend? Not in the least... I was happy for them. There was a reason I wrote "grossly overpay" in my prior post. We are going to have to pay a premium to land/retain FAs, but as success rises, the premium will fall. Collins is very athletic, but as Bill B. said defending his departure, he freelances. Saw it in the Cinci game in a critical third down situation when he rolled up to triple cover an RB leaving the TE wide open. Pryor is simply not a #1 WR. Both have a price they are worth and incentive-laden deals can be structured to reward their upside. Just don't pay for that upside in advance... Problem is the agents for our guys are going to say- hey you have that ton of money to spend- so why not on us? Because your guys are not worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 There's still a little too much "we are going to turn this around thru FA" going around here. It's clear to anyone paying attention that the draft will be our primary route. Sure....but FA can help. There was a reason I wrote "grossly overpay" in my prior post. We are going to have to pay a premium to land/retain FAs, but as success rises, the premium will fall. I am afraid this is true. Collins is very athletic, but as Bill B. said defending his departure, he freelances. Saw it in the Cinci game in a critical third down situation when he rolled up to triple cover an RB leaving the TE wide open. Pryor is simply not a #1 WR. Raw talent to be. Not sure about character and determination to be. Both have a price they are worth and incentive-laden deals can be structured to reward their upside. Just don't pay for that upside in advance... Of course, with FAs like Pryor or Collins...if some other team IS willing to pay up in advance, the Browns likely lose them. Not sure how that would play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Collins is very athletic, but as Bill B. said defending his departure, he freelances. Saw it in the Cinci game in a critical third down situation when he rolled up to triple cover an RB leaving the TE wide open. He was only on the team for what, three days? It's quite possible that he just didn't know what the heck he was supposed to do in that situation...so he did SOMETHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 There's still a little too much "we are going to turn this around thru FA" going around here. It's clear to anyone paying attention that the draft will be our primary route. Not in the least... I was happy for them. There was a reason I wrote "grossly overpay" in my prior post. We are going to have to pay a premium to land/retain FAs, but as success rises, the premium will fall. Collins is very athletic, but as Bill B. said defending his departure, he freelances. Saw it in the Cinci game in a critical third down situation when he rolled up to triple cover an RB leaving the TE wide open. Pryor is simply not a #1 WR. Both have a price they are worth and incentive-laden deals can be structured to reward their upside. Just don't pay for that upside in advance... Because your guys are not worth it? I think you're going to be surprised come the time FA opens up. I predict at least three-four new legitimate starters via FA this season. Now, will they be all cream of the crop signings? Probably not. We're not gonna go out and get Berry, Johnson, Jeffery, Jackson, and JPP. But I expect us to pay for one, maybe even two, guys in the top 10 and another two in the top 20 for sure. I also expect us to sign a guy or two like Warmack or Joeckel. It fits with what this FO has been doing. RG3, Cooper, Collins - all high potential guys with question marks. The draft will still be the primary route, but we literally have to spend money somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 If not the guys you listed, give us an example of top 10 and top 20 FAs we might sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Here is a list of FA that we could use some of the money on: https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2017all.php This has Josh Gordon as a FA. I thought the Browns retained his rights. They do- sort of. It looks like even though he was suspended all last year, his rookie contract is up. So he becomes a RFA. I can't see any team in their right mind picking up Josh at a first or second round tender level. Would the Browns want to pay Josh $1.6 million just to retain his rights for another year? Doubt that too. It's possible that Sportrac and CBS are wrong- being suspended, Gordon may not have accrued another year of service, and this line of thinking isn't correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 If not the guys you listed, give us an example of top 10 and top 20 FAs we might sign. Jeffery and Berry would be coups, but I'm not sure if I see it. That doesn't fit with what we've shown to do so far. More realistic signings would be guys from the AJ Bouye, Kevin Zietler, Stephon Gillmore, Trumaine Johnson, Chandler Jones, Tony Jefferson, Jahleel Addae, Riley Reiff pool. Almost all of these guys are in their mid-20's and won't command huge money, but have starter potential for us. I'd say we nab a few from this region, depending on who is tagged/resigned and what we'd like to target via draft. This is a banner year for young underperforming first round talent and high potential young players with question marks - seems like the area we like to tap into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Jeffery and Berry would be coups, but I'm not sure if I see it. That doesn't fit with what we've shown to do so far. More realistic signings would be guys from the AJ Bouye, Kevin Zietler, Stephon Gillmore, Trumaine Johnson, Chandler Jones, Tony Jefferson, Jahleel Addae, Riley Reiff pool. Almost all of these guys are in their mid-20's and won't command huge money, but have starter potential for us. I'd say we nab a few from this region, depending on who is tagged/resigned and what we'd like to target via draft. This is a banner year for young underperforming first round talent and high potential young players with question marks - seems like the area we like to tap into. I would be very happy to pick up a couple of those level of guys and then focus on quality in the draft over quantity. Going in to a draft having filled any holes in free agency, allowing you to just take the best player on your board - that's the way to run a team. Unfortunately we have so many holes we can't fix them all in one free agency period, so we need a few quantity drafts to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 I think you're going to be surprised come the time FA opens up. I predict at least three-four new legitimate starters via FA this season. Now, will they be all cream of the crop signings? Probably not. We're not gonna go out and get Berry, Johnson, Jeffery, Jackson, and JPP. But I expect us to pay for one, maybe even two, guys in the top 10 and another two in the top 20 for sure. I also expect us to sign a guy or two like Warmack or Joeckel. It fits with what this FO has been doing. RG3, Cooper, Collins - all high potential guys with question marks. The draft will still be the primary route, but we literally have to spend money somewhere. At 3-4 I would be surprised. I see 2 max... same as last season... and no big "splashes" with the possible exception of Trumaine. The "have to" is something to keep in mind, but it's not the imperative as you might be thinking it is. Going into 2016 with the commitments on the books and FAs yet to be added, we were actually comfortably over the running, 4-year cap, 89% cash spend requirement at nearly 92%. More realistic signings would be guys from the AJ Bouye, Kevin Zietler, Stephon Gillmore, Trumaine Johnson, Chandler Jones, Tony Jefferson, Jahleel Addae, Riley Reiff pool. Bouye would be a nice consolation prize, if we don't land Trumaine. Zeitler immediately solidifies our interior OL with instant depth created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 At 3-4 I would be surprised. I see 2 max... same as last season... and no big "splashes" with the possible exception of Trumaine. The "have to" is something to keep in mind, but it's not the imperative as you might be thinking it is. Going into 2016 with the commitments on the books and FAs yet to be added, we were actually comfortably over the running, 4-year cap, 89% cash spend requirement at nearly 92%. Bouye would be a nice consolation prize, if we don't land Trumaine. Zeitler immediately solidifies our interior OL with instant depth created. Haslam's recent comments coupled with a year of our FA together coupled with the makeup of this year's market coupled with the amount of available cap room we have leads me to believe we'll make a larger splash than last year. Building through the draft != not taking FA's. Smart FA acquisitions to supplement a thought-out draft strategy are prevalent in almost every single successful rebuild. Generally, I'd be against an impact signing of a big FA name because we'd have to overpay and it would likely be detrimental to building the team elsewhere. However, given our current circumstances, I feel we're in a great position to add two of the bigger names (maybe not the biggest) as well as smart acquisitions elsewhere. You have to think that JT and maybe even Haden won't be counting against our cap in 3-4 years. That means our biggest contracts 3-4 years from now are.......TP and Collins? We have the room to add a big contract or two without putting us anywhere near cap trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 It appears Collins will be one... I hope our biggest contracts 3 and 4 years out are with players not yet on our roster. Even modest resigns/extentions can be a source of $$$'s to bring forward into 2017's space via sizable bonuses. I think there are minimal questions about work ethics in several cases that lend themselves to this. Crow, Paz, Poyer and Meder all fill the bill for bonus rich resigns. Looking out to 2018 FAs obvious targets would include: Kirksey, Bito and Reynolds with some consideration for Greco. The above has the benefit of meeting 2017 spend requirements while keeping plenty of space available for years to come... for when our franchise QB nears the end of his rookie deal... whoever he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 It appears Collins will be one... I hope our biggest contracts 3 and 4 years out are with players not yet on our roster. Even modest resigns/extentions can be a source of $$$'s to bring forward into 2017's space via sizable bonuses. I think there are minimal questions about work ethics in several cases that lend themselves to this. Crow, Paz, Poyer and Meder all fill the bill for bonus rich resigns. Looking out to 2018 FAs obvious targets would include: Kirksey, Bito and Reynolds with some consideration for Greco. The above has the benefit of meeting 2017 spend requirements while keeping plenty of space available for years to come... for when our franchise QB nears the end of his rookie deal... whoever he is. Where would those contracts be coming from, then? Even the main guys we drafted last year will be entering the final years of their rookie contracts. I don't see this FO trading for big name players at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Where would those contracts be coming from, then? Even the main guys we drafted last year will be entering the final years of their rookie contracts. I don't see this FO trading for big name players at any point. No... no trades... Deals would come from extensions of keepers we draft before they hit the final year of their rookie contracts. Sooner or later we (hope we) end up with a Big 3 on Offense pushing $40mm/yr. Throw in a well-paid OL ($30mm), a TE and a vet #2 WR and suddenly you've got a $80mm starting Offense. Then there's the D... Keep bringing forward the money now and you create your best shot at having an easy cap to manage later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 I would be very happy to pick up a couple of those level of guys and then focus on quality in the draft over quantity. Going in to a draft having filled any holes in free agency, allowing you to just take the best player on your board - that's the way to run a team. Unfortunately we have so many holes we can't fix them all in one free agency period, so we need a few quantity drafts to get there. Well, one position that the Browns are unlikely to make a move on in free agency is the QB spot. Here is the list of available FA QBs: Kirk Cousins QB 28 WAS TBD 16 4,917 25 96 4 12 9 $19,953,000 UFA Market Value Ryan Fitzpatrick QB 34 NYJ TBD 14 2,710 12 130 17 9 $12,000,000 UFA - Case Keenum QB 28 LA TBD 10 2,201 9 51 1 11 5 $3,635,000 UFA - Shaun Hill QB 37 MIN TBD 3 242 5 $3,250,000 UFA - Matt Schaub QB 35 ATL TBD 4 16 -2 $2,750,000 UFA - Matt McGloin QB 27 OAK TBD 3 50 -3 $2,553,000 UFA - E.J. Manuel QB 26 BUF TBD 6 131 22 2 $2,221,325 UFA - Blaine Gabbert QB 27 SF TBD 6 925 5 173 2 6 $2,000,000 UFA - Matt Cassel QB 34 TEN TBD 4 284 2 3 2 1 $2,000,000 UFA - Mark Sanchez QB 30 DAL TBD 2 93 -2 2 $2,000,000 UFA - Brian Hoyer QB 31 CHI TBD 6 1,445 6 -2 3 $2,000,000 UFA - Geno Smith QB 26 NYJ TBD 2 126 1 9 1 1 $1,254,901 UFA - Kellen Clemens QB 33 SD TBD 12 -1 $1,065,000 UFA - Dan Orlovsky QB 33 DET TBD $1,065,000 UFA - Josh Johnson QB 30 NYG TBD $885,000 UFA - Ryan Mallett QB 28 BAL TBD 4 26 -6 1 $815,735 UFA - Christian Ponder QB 28 SF TBD $800,000 UFA - Mike Glennon Only this last guy is one I think I would have any interest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Grab Calias Campbell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Grab Calias Campbell! Caliga? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Or, Caligula? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Grab Calias Campbell! I highly doubt it. He's 30 and he's going to want WAY too much money. He's on the decline of his career, you don't want to pay for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Never stopped us before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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