Flugel Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 I'm hoping like Hell we go Defense with our first 2 picks. I've seen Trubisky play twice in his small body of work starting. I already posted I see why some guys really like him and pointed out the specifics I really liked such strong, accurate and consistently escapes trouble behind a suspect pass pro. Unfortunately, I see a lot of parallels to Tim Couch in the moral victories dept excusing both losses to drops and if he just had the right team around him. So what happened to Couch? He came here while McNabb went to the NFL team coming off the worst record. Couch received the same excuses here that he got at Kentucky vrs SEC Competition while McNabb turned an unforgiving hatred in the City of Brotherly Love over not drafting Ricky Williams into nothing but playoffs from about 2000-2010 inclusive of 5 NFC Championship Games and 1 exciting SB matchup with NE. In 2002, we DID make the playoffs with a 9-7 record once our a bye week re-eval decided to take the offense off Couch's shoulders and onto the running game. Over the last 5-6 games of that season, William Green averaged over a 100 yards rushing per game while a considerable portion of our fan base began to favor Kelly Holcomb if memory serves me right here. The day we clinched a playoff spot beating a playoff bound Atlanta team - Couch left the game early with us behind. Holcomb came in and William Green ran for 164 yards to help us overcome the deficit. While I felt bad for Couch at times, he was a #1 overall pick which meant he was supposed to drive the franchise to greatness as opposed to being one of the passengers. I think our FO put the cleaning staff in charge of researching McNabb while Andy Reid remembered Favre played in a So Miss offense very similar to the Veer Option McNabb played in at SU. The difference between McNabb and Couch is one guy never ended up needing excuses while the other quickly made everyone around him instantly better. Again, Philly came off the worst record in the NFL so let's not pretend only 1 guy had challenges to overcome. This comes from the same guy who's very first post in cyberspace said "Couch just Makes Sense." I thought there was no other answer until hindsight 20/20 showed me otherwise. While Couch didn't suck - he never was the solution Philly found at #2 overall in 1999. So? Sometimes you have to look at a QB prospect that transcended a major college program/tradition to elite like say a Bernie Kosar or an Andrew Luck or even a Joe Montana; or see why/how an Aaron Rodgers beats a much more talented USC team than his. Once upon a time, I saw Elway erase a 28 point halftime lead Ohio State had on an inferior Stanford team in a game that should have never ended in a tie. They did the same stuff at the next level. Even Poor Andrew Luck who has taken a suspect pass pro to a Conference Championship game already. I guess we can throw Peyton Manning in there since his excellence attracted enough recruits for UT to win the National Championship the first season after he went to the NFL. Keep in mind, Montana got stereotyped for arm strength, less than wonderful passing stats and style of offense so he fell to something like round 3 or 4 (paving the way for much lesser QBs to follow at ND to get drafted higher in the future - even one often hailed as "the most pro ready" of his draft class). As for SU, they stopped competing for 1st place in the Big East after McNabb left. Today, that football program is looking for a pulse in the ACC. What happens when there doesn't appear to be an obvious franchise QB at #1 overall or one a QB that transcended a major college football program to excellence? 1) You can pretend there is one and reach... 2) You can get bullied into drafting a QB in round 1 even if a 1st round talent does not exist because that's what we're still being told we need to do. We've rinsed and repeated this one so often - it's hard to trust it again. 3) You can do enough film review and research to feel you SEE the right QB. 4) You can draft to make this an easier place to play QB for whatever QBs you already have + whatever QBs you draft later (ie; is there an easier place for a young guy to play QB than Dallas today?) I just thought I'd share a look at the stats of the last FULL seasons Mitch Trubisky and Chad Kelly started. In doing so, one has to understand Chad Kelly injured his ACL in 2016, which means he'll miss a lot of the pre-draft workouts without defenses hurrying throws against WRs not being defended by NFL corners with a bad pass pro hurrying throws even more so. Film can show show you a lot of that stuff better. Unfortunately, it can't replicate the level of complexity NFL defenses can confuse a rookie QB with during his new role of reading progressions in a faster league while he may not have very good pass pro or much help around him. Here's their stats in the final full. Chad Kelly (2015) 298 of 458 for 4042 yds 65.1 cmp% 8.8 ypc 31 TD 13 INT 500 yds rushing 4.7 ypc 10 TD rushing * Last SEC QB to beat Alabama (the last time Alabama won a National Championship). Like Cam Newton, he had to grow up after getting thrown out of his first college program at 18 years of age. Even though he led his team to over 30 points again in 2016 vrs Bama, they forced him into some bad decisions. Mitch Trubisky (2016) 304 of 447 for 3748 yds 68.0 cmp% 8.4 ypc 30 TD 6 INT 308 yds rushing 3.3 ypc 5 TD rushing * Fun kid to watch with hometown roots as close by as Mentor. Strong, accurate and eludes pressure consistently. Has to overcome locking onto his primary target as depicted in the pick 6 against Stanford While I won't hate it if we draft Trubisky, I'm just not sold he's any better than Chad Kelly especially knowing Kelly will probably fall to a much later slot than Trubisky. That being the case, we can sure draft a lot of impact in that upper first round and even at the top of round 2 before we address the QB spot. We can draft 2 impactful studs on defense in round 1 and add Elfein at Center at the top of round 2 before we'd even have to draft Kelly. Looking at my multiple choice above - I choose #4. Wouldn't it be fun to defer a coin toss and actually stop an opponent from scoring 2 minutes into the game for whoever we start at QB for once? 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DKAllDay Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 IMG_0965.PNG I'm not surprised the first negative reply comes from someone with a screen name honoring Trubisky. I remembered the same type of pictures explaining how NFL teams early in round 1 needed to avoid Tunsil. So, someone got him way further down the pecking order of round 1. Understandable. Miami appeared to be pretty happy to make the playoffs with him being talented enough to start at a couple different positions on the line to accommodate injury. There was also Dak Prescott's drinking and driving for whatever team was willing to risk drafting him mid-late last year. Doesn't look like his taker failed especially in the bargain territory he was found. So today, Kelly is just another football player from one of these SEC Mississippi programs that could fall down to better bargain territory. In terms of risk vrs reward, he's just 1 mid round pick vrs how much we'd give up for a QB unproven outside of NE's utopian football environment. Therefore, I'm not advocating for Kelly at #1 overall. Seems to me, most of the QBs we've drafted since 99 have been mistakes so our choice is to potentially make another mistake at #1 overall or take the risk later in the draft. For that matter, it doesn't even have to be Kelly at a later spot in the draft. It could be another QB. I just found a guy with a comparable skill set we would not have to use our 1st pick on. I'm sure there's other alternatives after round 1 in the draft like Dak Prescott was last year or Russell Wilson was a few years ago. How many people on this board do you suppose got drunk or wasted when they were 18 or 19 years of age? Should that have meant they didn't deserve a career when they were 22 or 23 years of age? One of those kids in your picture hasn't even reached puberty making me question if this was way back in high school 4 or 5 years ago. Meanwhile, your picture doesn't show us if that's a cell phone or blunt behind the milk container. The founder of the Trubisky fan club repeatedly told me I needed to give Josh Gordon another chance to pass piss tests for 1 full year; so I'm sure he wouldn't have a panic attack if we only used 1 mid-late round pick on Kelly allotting us the opportunity to put other very important positions of need/BPA in place before him. If we get all of our early picks right in the process and we see progress in Kessler behind a better margin of error - the sting of being wrong on Kelly won't be that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 I wouldn't touch the kid with a 10 foot pole. Besides the drug concerns, and general character concerns, he was also involved in an on field fight at a relatives football game AFTER he was out this season with an injury. He ran off the sideline and tried to punch a high school player. We don't need that kind of shit in the locker room, even as a UDFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Who waited until they were 18 or 19? Great write up, Flugs... I may have actually acquired an appreciation for your style... at least when you and I agree... Chad is still my top, 2017 Darkhorse candidate. I figure with his injury he's no higher than a mid-Day 2 pick, so the risk is not too great, and as you showed the upside is there. The problem? His was a two-fer knee injury... ACL plus meniscus. Can't find a timetable on his progress, but odds are he's an IR stash his rookie season. He certainly won't be flashing at the Combine or any Pro-day. I did find: Surgery was a success, rehabilitation will soon follow and Chad Kelly is expected to make a full recovery after suffering a torn ACL in his right knee. What awaits the former St. Joseph’s Collegiate Institute star and Ole Miss quarterback, whose college career abruptly ended Nov. 5? It could turn into a multimillion-dollar question for Kelly, who four weeks into the season was rated No. 9 among college quarterbacks by Pro Football Focus. Whatever his draft stock, it undoubtedly plummeted when he limped off the field after throwing for 249 yards and three touchdowns against Georgia Southern. Kelly’s knee was in the gifted hands of Dr. James Andrews, the renowned orthopedic surgeon who performed the operation this week. Remember, the quarterback came back after tearing the ACL in his left knee while playing in Clemson’s spring game in 2013. “Basically, he’s doing very well,” Kelly’s father, Kevin, said Tuesday when reached by telephone. “He’s extremely sore. The doctor gave him a good report. He was looking at his bones and his muscles and was very impressed with how strong they are. He was very pleased to see how healthy his legs are.” http://buffalonews.com/2016/11/15/buck-stops-kelly-hoping-road-recovery-leads-nfl/ As for the photo... it was taken after the surgery was done. Strikes me as a combo of idle time and pain management with perhaps a small dose of discounsolation on top. The more disquieting others find it... the cheaper he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 And you can bet Uncle Jim will do everything in his power to mentor Chad into the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Bad NFL Draft crop of quarterbacks gets worse with Chad Kelly's torn ... www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/.../bad-nfl-draft-crop-of-quarterbacks-gets-... Nov 7, 2016 - Kelly is the top-rated senior quarterback in the 2017 draft class. The Mississippi Rebels and QB-needy teams in the NFL alike were dealt a blow Sunday night with the announcement that senior signal-caller Chad Kelly had torn multiple knee ligaments in the team's 37-27 win Saturday over Georgia Southern. Chad Kelly receives seventh-round draft projection post-injury - NFL.com www.nfl.com/.../chad-kelly-receives-seventhround-draft-projection-posti... Nov 7, 2016 - That was prior to this injury." Kelly, the nephew of former Buffalo Bills star QB Jim Kelly, tore his ACL and lateral meniscus in a 37-27 win over Georgia Southern on Saturday. While that cost him a few more games for the Rebels, it's not as thoughNFL scouts won't have a foundation of game film to review of Kelly. NFL Draft Prospect Ole Miss QB Chad Kelly Red Flags - The MMQB.com mmqb.si.com/.../nfl-draft-2017-chad-kelly-ole-miss-quarterback-red-fla... Oct 26, 2016 - Supremely talented, but erratic on the field. A checkered past off of it. The 2017 draft's top senior QB prospect has six months to convince NFL ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Sorry, Mr. FlugelsMeistsies... but Kelly is/was a world class jerk. In 2014, I can't believe he acted like he did at all. Tough to give a kid second chances after that fiasco. I suppose he may have "grown up", etc. but when he gets to the NFL and makes millions of bucks, will he start being his "old self" again? I, too, wouldn't draft him in any round. Don't need the locker room drama which is justifiably to be suspected to be occurring eventually. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2307690-after-legal-issue-ole-miss-must-let-go-of-its-qb-of-the-future-chad-kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Dude it's Mississippi. He was probably talking about spraying the place with some Glade mist or Febreze. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Sorry, Mr. FlugelsMeistsies... but Kelly is/was a world class jerk. In 2014, I can't believe he acted like he did at all. Tough to give a kid second chances after that fiasco. I suppose he may have "grown up", etc. but when he gets to the NFL and makes millions of bucks, will he start being his "old self" again? I, too, wouldn't draft him in any round. Don't need the locker room drama which is justifiably to be suspected to be occurring eventually. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2307690-after-legal-issue-ole-miss-must-let-go-of-its-qb-of-the-future-chad-kelly Calsies, I wish I could say drafting "Nice" kids like Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn was the best way to prevent the pricks in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincy from taking turns at repeatedly winning the division. Unfortunately, I've seen where our nice guys have continued to finish since 1999. I'd hate to think we're going to spend the next 3-4 years defending our 1st overall pick with "yeah but he's a great kid." Like I said in this thread, it doesn't necessarily have to be Chad Kelly as a later round alternative to using #1 overall on Trubisky. It can be another QB the popularity contest pushes back like it did to guys like Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson not so long ago. I just think Kelly's skill set along with the ACL injury plus all the old stories about what a terrible kid he used to be could work in our favor in a later round with minimal risk/hurt if we're wrong. If you have a QB you feel might fit this route better than Chad Kelly - I'd be open to hearing who it is and why you feel he's a better idea. Keep in mind, as the draft comes closer - there's going to be more stories surfacing to scare teams away from drafting a kid like Kelly. I remembered reading the week of the draft that Adrian Peterson's shoulder/clavicle injury might require season ending surgery before his rookie year would even get off the ground. Some teams took the bait while Minnesota did their research instead of reacting to rumors and false stories that were getting printed. Some of this could very well apply here especially with writers like Jason LaCockroach out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Dude it's Mississippi. He was probably talking about spraying the place with some Glade mist or Febreze. WSS LMAO! God bless ya Steve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Who waited until they were 18 or 19? Great write up, Flugs... I may have actually acquired an appreciation for your style... at least when you and I agree... Chad is still my top, 2017 Darkhorse candidate. I figure with his injury he's no higher than a mid-Day 2 pick, so the risk is not too great, and as you showed the upside is there. The problem? His was a two-fer knee injury... As for the photo... it was taken after the surgery was done. Strikes me as a combo of idle time and pain management with perhaps a small dose of discounsolation on top. The more disquieting others find it... the cheaper he gets. Thanks - I really appreciate that Tour! Backatchya with appreciating your style as well as your passion. Well put about the bargain he can become. My first impression of Kelly was watching him beat Alabama in 2015. I saw the only QB Bama's elite defense couldn't stop prior to winning their National Championship. If we're wrong in taking Trubisky it's going to be at the expense of landing the pick of the litter at a huge need vrs "oh well, we missed on another mid/late round pick." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Chad Kelly is the human embodiment of trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Chad Kelly is the human embodiment of trash. +1. He is the embodiment of everything this staff wants to stay away from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Chad Kelly is the human embodiment of trash. Agreed. So are alot of good players. Mostly irrelevant IMO, but certainly more important for a QB than any other position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Calsies, I wish I could say drafting "Nice" kids like Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn was the best way to prevent the pricks in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincy from taking turns at repeatedly winning the division. Unfortunately, I've seen where our nice guys have continued to finish since 1999. I'd hate to think we're going to spend the next 3-4 years defending our 1st overall pick with "yeah but he's a great kid." Like I said in this thread, it doesn't necessarily have to be Chad Kelly as a later round alternative to using #1 overall on Trubisky. It can be another QB the popularity contest pushes back like it did to guys like Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson not so long ago. I just think Kelly's skill set along with the ACL injury plus all the old stories about what a terrible kid he used to be could work in our favor in a later round with minimal risk/hurt if we're wrong. If you have a QB you feel might fit this route better than Chad Kelly - I'd be open to hearing who it is and why you feel he's a better idea. Keep in mind, as the draft comes closer - there's going to be more stories surfacing to scare teams away from drafting a kid like Kelly. I remembered reading the week of the draft that Adrian Peterson's shoulder/clavicle injury might require season ending surgery before his rookie year would even get off the ground. Some teams took the bait while Minnesota did their research instead of reacting to rumors and false stories that were getting printed. Some of this could very well apply here especially with writers like Jason LaCockroach out there. I agree. Nice guys finish last in football. The game of football just does not comport with gentlemen for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 I agree. Nice guys finish last in football. The game of football just does not comport with gentlemen for the most part. To me there's a difference between "nice guys" and "trash". In a sport full of testosterone overdrive an element of nasty is good. You can be a nasty mean competitive player without being a gangster wanna be thug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 But your odds are greatly diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 If you guys want to show me a list of late round QBs with off the field problems related to drugs and fighting and general douchbaggery who became franchise QBs in the last 25 years, I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 If you guys want to show me a list of late round QBs with off the field problems related to drugs and fighting and general douchbaggery who became franchise QBs in the last 25 years, I'll wait. Tom Brady had a well known bath salts problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 If you guys want to show me a list of late round QBs with off the field problems related to drugs and fighting and general douchbaggery who became franchise QBs in the last 25 years, I'll wait. Instead of showing up to 1 more thread just to piss all over it, you could actually participate and give us a better alternative to Kelly after round 1 like I asked of those who disapprove of Kelly. BTW, Irish people have a tendency to swing first and ask questions later as depicted in Notre Dame's storied football tradition. Meanwhile college QBs have a tendency to like to party after a hard week of work. This has gone on in the NFL as well dating all the way back to Norm Van Brocklin and probably much longer. Do you want an alter boy with manners or a competitive QB? It's okay to be a fiery leader with a work hard - play hard attitude. And when we read about him fighting, why are we so quick to assume he wasn't defending family or friends? This doesn't exactly make him the Pac Man Jones you want portrayed here. Having said that, I'll bet there's at least 2 females in this country that would tell me Ben Roethlisberger is just as much of a thug as Pac Man is. That hasn't stopped him from frequenting Superbowls while nice kids like Kessler in Cleveland have been getting concussions and other injuries. Anyone remember why Dan Marino slid all the way down into the late 20s of round 1? Rumors of heavy partying and nose candy while his final matchup with Penn State showed him screaming at teammates. He also screamed at Clayton and Duper at the next level when they dropped his passes, which looked like it was an effective form of fiery leadership. Jim Kelly and Bernie Kosar came out of one of the biggest party schools in the country. You don't think they waited to take their first sip of beer until after they retired, do you? If so, I have some real estate for sale in Alligator Alley. This just in. One of those guys is Irish and he's related to Chad Kelly. There's a lot of stories about Jim's partying past 4:00 am in the Elmwood Strip on weekends of home games especially during the brief tenure of the "Bickering Bills." Once the guy wanted to take on the responsibility of the "no huddle" with him calling his own plays - he got a little smarter with when/where his partying should take place. He also became a much better guy to his girlfriend/fiance and in the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 If you guys want to show me a list of late round QBs with off the field problems related to drugs and fighting and general douchbaggery who became franchise QBs in the last 25 years, I'll wait. Why the "late round" proviso if your main issue is off-field concerns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 So our list of better alternatives to Chad Kelly after round 1 from those that disapprove of him remains at 0. Apparently, they're just as impressed with this QB class as I am. I wish that pushed Trubisky into Peyton Manning range; but Manning actually felt a 4th season of starting experience was important to his readiness for the NFL. That was his response on the radio when Frank Wycheck asked him why did you risk getting hurt when you would have been the #1 overall after your junior year? That being the case, I'll love me some Allen or Garrett 1st and the next best impact we can find defensively at #12. Allen reminds me of a more compact version of Richard Seymore in the way he can play inside or outside as well as any technique a DC will assign him so I'm leaning toward him. Furthermore, I'm not sold we need to write off Nate Orchard this quickly; especially considering he'll be a probably be a much better fit in Williams' scheme. That said, I'll keep an open mind and welcome any feedback from our 12th Man guys (War & Aggies) or others that have seen a lot more of Garrett than I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 It doesn't do any good to go to extremes to make points. Aaron Rodgers is a real nice guy. Joe Thomas is a real nice guy. Drew Brees is a very nice guy. Andrew Luck is a nice guy. Alex Smith is a nice guy. It's TOUGH and LOVE OF THE GAME...okay, intelligence, instinct... that is the key. It's baloney to select a "bad guy" because you think he'll be tough on the football field. Good luck to ya if you do, because he could be suspended, be out of football, be a complete dud, die of a overdose, make you lose games because of stupid penaltiles at the wrong time etc, go to jail for socking his wife, etc etc etc. Jerry Sherk was a nice guy, Brian Brennan, Sipe, Kosar, the list is long. I'ma callin baloniesies. If you stick to your complete valid list of qualifiers, it's okay if you pick up/draft a guy and give him a second chance, depending on how he screwed up in the first place. Dallas did it, turned out great. Some scum hair ball dirtbags become star players. Like Joey Porter - he was a steriod rage kind of cheapshot sombeitch player, in my book. Okay, I don't have book, but... Porter just got in legal trouble as a coach, fer cryin out loud, and a very dirty player on the field. Dirty, cheap shot players can help you win...by taking out the important players on the other team with illegal hits. Just draft guys who love the game, have the work ethic, smarts, character, who play the game 100% because of it...with NFL physical talent, and you have a great addition to your football team. You can give a college player a second chance and win. or not. You can have a could-have-been great player, but he went to prison after you drafted him in the fourth round because you are a moron, and the idiot kid never joins your team. Enough with the "bad guy" tag. Chuck Norris is a very, very,very, very nice guy. So? You think he isn't tough and won't kick your ass in a karate tournament? Football is a tough man's game, not a dirty cheapshot game - unless you play for the urine yellow stinking squealers and got steriod rage. You draft a real bad tough guy who is a terrific player , I'll draft a nice guy who is just as tough, and my guy will never be in legal trouble, suspended, and like Joe Thomas, your guy will vote for Joe as All-pro. etc etc. I win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Cal, your point rings true for QBs, which is what this thread is related to, so I guess I'll shut up. But that list is much harder to create with other positions, and yet you seem to have the same belief. For every one you can bring up I've got 5 bone thugs for you. It takes a little crazy to play this game. And please don't type "I'ma callin baloniesies" again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Why the "late round" proviso if your main issue is off-field concerns? Because the argument can be made that if a guy is taken in the first round with documented issues, then his on-field talent is so astronomically high that the reward outweighs the risk. Were Kelly a perfect off-field specimen and were he not injured, he still wouldn't be among the top QBs in this draft solely because he's kinda just not good. Why gamble on a trashbag who isn't even that good? Just because he's distantly related to a QB who was pretty good 30 years ago? Just because he's done well in some big games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Because the argument can be made that if a guy is taken in the first round with documented issues, then his on-field talent is so astronomically high that the reward outweighs the risk. Were Kelly a perfect off-field specimen and were he not injured, he still wouldn't be among the top QBs in this draft solely because he's kinda just not good. Why gamble on a trashbag who isn't even that good? Just because he's distantly related to a QB who was pretty good 30 years ago? Just because he's done well in some big games? Sometimes, it helps to understand the context of a discussion you're showing up to. Therefore, when the person that started the thread says it's okay if you don't like Chad Kelly and he'd be interested in hearing better alternatives - your input could either perpetuate an ongoing discussion or improve it. Believe it or not, I like reading what you have to say about QBs most of the time since I've seen you nail some predictions about guys that weren't exactly crowd faves/popular. So, who do you see as better alternatives to Kelly after round 1 or mid-late in this draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Cal, your point rings true for QBs, which is what this thread is related to, so I guess I'll shut up. But that list is much harder to create with other positions, and yet you seem to have the same belief. For every one you can bring up I've got 5 bone thugs for you. It takes a little crazy to play this game. And please don't type "I'ma callin baloniesies" again. to a point, maybe, but I don't see "crazy" as being a bad guy. You listen to Joe Thomas joke around, you figure he's crazy/funny/nice guy.... But going up vs him on the football field is hell, right? I figure Chuck Norris is crazy, his sport is nuts. Mr. Miaggi was very nice..... Dick Butkus was a nice guy. Danny Shelton is a very, very, very nice kid - who is one of the most powerful kickass nt's in the NFL now. and he'll be even better this coming year. and, lol, I apologize,.... only typed that to make Flugels spit coffee on his keyboard. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 It doesn't do any good to go to extremes to make points. Agreed, so I'll remove your countless examples of them Calsies. - Flugel It's TOUGH and LOVE OF THE GAME...okay, intelligence, instinct... that is the key. It's baloney to select a "bad guy" because you think he'll be tough on the football field. While you're on the subject going to extremes, who in this thread looks like their criteria for improving the QB position starts with looking for a bad guy especially after the Johnny Manziel experience? Kelly is just an Irish kid with a swing first - ask questions later mentality; especially when it pertains to protecting family, friends or teammates. That doesn't exactly make him the next Pac Man Jones some are portraying him as. My first impression of him and his skill set was watching that leave Nick Saban not knowing whether to shit or winde his wrist watch. That's as close as it gets to seeing someone walk on water. It's okay if people don't agree with that assessment. And, not much different than countless other previous QB prospects between the ages of 20-23 years of age - they like to exercise their work hard play hard with a little more partying than alter boys. No different than Bernie Kosar and Jim Kelly coming out of a party school like Miami. You don't really think both guys waited to take their first sip of beer until after their pro football careers ended do you? - Flugel You draft a real bad tough guy who is a terrific player , I'll draft a nice guy who is just as tough, and my guy will never be in legal trouble, suspended, and like Joe Thomas, your guy will vote for Joe as All-pro. You've been repeating this since 1999. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh drafted Ben Rapen who is competing for another SB visit while we've been drafting all those real nice kids you speak of. In fact, there's a t-shirt honoring all those great kids that got beaten to a pulp here playing QB behind more of those real nice guys like Garret Gilkey, Cam Erving, Jason Pinkston, Brad Bedell, Jason One-n-Dunn, Steve Zahursky, O'Neil Cousins, Joe Andruzzi and countless other rent-a-wrecks and docey doe specialists. If those guys give you chills and goose bumps my friend - then God Bless ya! I'm a little tired of seeing this franchise competing for the Good Sportsmanship Award in a violent sport full of excessive testosterone and competitive fires in a division dominated by teams enjoying us as their version of Bingo FREE SPACE. Showing up with manners and using terms like please and thank you on game day hasn't been working - just ask Courtney Brown. Great kid though. He looked like a kite in the wind against the run especially when it came right at him while stealing a lot of TFLs on backside clampdowns when nobody on the oline reach-blocking toward the play side was assigned to touch him.The only multiple sack day he had came against a backup LT on Pittsburgh the day they had former OSU QB Graham holding onto the ball too long in the pocket. Maybe that's when Pittsburgh decided nice guys like Tommy Maddox, Mike Tomczak and Graham just weren't SB material. I didn't mind having a Kevin Mack freight train Greg Loyd to sleep even if he encountered some trouble with cocaine during his football career. He's human and proved he deserved the second chance. I always give guys a second chance even the Josh Gordon that already exhausted his 2nd and 3rd chances in college. One guy refused to hide behind excuses and alibis while the other still can't pass a piss test for 1 full year so he's only played 5 football games since his 2013 season. It's 2017 and I'm ready for progress on this football team. If I want to see alter boys instead of football - I'll go to church. - Flugel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 It doesn't do any good to go to extremes to make points. Just.....wow...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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