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Joe Haden got smoked again


WalterWhite

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Haden is an average player. Average speed, size and skills. He is performing commensurate with his skills. I don't see that he is a disappointment. The only people disappointed in his performance are those who thought this was a REMENDOUS draft pick, and that Haden was a top prospect. He never was that, and it was only delusional Browns fans who thought he was going to be a shutdown type guy.

 

He's average. Like MOST of the Browns talent.

 

Until Cleveland takes advantage of it's first round picks and actually goes for the VERY TOP picks, their probability of drafting difference makers is not going to be very good. Yes, yes, I know, drafting the very best is expensive and risky, but look at the shit team we have from playing it " smart and conservative".

 

The Browns are a constipated team. It feels like bowell activity, your stomach is rumbling, you sit down to shit, you squeeze like a motherfucker, and alas.... it is all for not........ nothing happens.

 

Big Ben, Wadkins, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Luck, on and on it goes........... we draft FAKE top picks like Quinn, Richardson and Manziel and pretend that WE TOO ARE A HUNGRY organization. We aren't............ we just don't gamble on the best, and until the Browns DO start betting the farm on big play makers, we will remain a constipated team unable to win close games.

I've been saying, for years, Haden is average.

 

He is small, not fast, and not tough enough to be an elite CB

 

The Browns are now stuck with a bad contract for an average talent

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Haden very disappointing. Gilbert first round bust so far.

 

Gilbert- not impressive first three games = bust.

Haden is an average player. Average speed, size and skills. He is performing commensurate with his skills. I don't see that he is a disappointment. The only people disappointed in his performance are those who thought this was a REMENDOUS draft pick, and that Haden was a top prospect. He never was that, and it was only delusional Browns fans who thought he was going to be a shutdown type guy.

 

He's average. Like MOST of the Browns talent.

 

Until Cleveland takes advantage of it's first round picks and actually goes for the VERY TOP picks, their probability of drafting difference makers is not going to be very good. Yes, yes, I know, drafting the very best is expensive and risky, but look at the shit team we have from playing it " smart and conservative".

 

The Browns are a constipated team. It feels like bowell activity, your stomach is rumbling, you sit down to shit, you squeeze like a motherfucker, and alas.... it is all for not........ nothing happens.

 

Big Ben, Wadkins, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Luck, on and on it goes........... we draft FAKE top picks like Quinn, Richardson and Manziel and pretend that WE TOO ARE A HUNGRY organization. We aren't............ we just don't gamble on the best, and until the Browns DO start betting the farm on big play makers, we will remain a constipated team unable to win close games.

 

Haden was considered the top CB in his draft class. And he's only been to the Pro Bowl. Yeah, he sucks.

 

Phil Taylor over JJ Watt and Julio Jones LOL

 

Trent Richardson and Brandon Weeden? Yikes.

 

Barkevious Mingo? Meh.

 

Justin Gilbert - Good god, retire you bum.

 

Johnny Manziel - Unknown.

 

This team needs to draft better

 

Most of those draft mistakes were from previous Front Office gaffes. Lets see how this year's crop works out- and it takes more than three damn games to evaluate it. Walter, you change your opinions on a weekly basis. You were giving Manziel blow jobs all preseaon- and now you're happy he's sitting.

 

Gilbert has elite measurables- I'd say you need to give him more than 3 NFL games to label him a "bust" or wasted draft pick.

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Gilbert- not impressive first three games = bust.

 

Haden was considered the top CB in his draft class. And he's only been to the Pro Bowl. Yeah, he sucks.

 

 

Most of those draft mistakes were from previous Front Office gaffes. Lets see how this year's crop works out- and it takes more than three damn games to evaluate it. Walter, you change your opinions on a weekly basis. You were giving Manziel blow jobs all preseaon- and now you're happy he's sitting.

 

Gilbert has elite measurables- I'd say you need to give him more than 3 NFL games to label him a "bust" or wasted draft pick.

How many game sdo we need to see?

 

Mingo has been her 15 games, and he's a bust so far

 

Haden has 1 pass defended and no picks this year. And opposing QB's look for him. They sure as hell don't shy away from him

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How many games do we need to see?

 

Mingo has been her 15 games, and he's a bust so far

 

Haden has 1 pass defended and no picks this year. And opposing QB's look for him. They sure as hell don't shy away from him

 

Go look up Mingo's stats against Jarvis Jones, and see if the Steelers are calling him a bust. Mingo has been hurt.

 

Haden gives up a big play and he's a bum too.Damn bunch of Debbie Downers.

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I think Pettine needs to take over the play calling duties from Jim O'neil. The opposing teams offense is always one step ahead, offensive coordinators are making him look amateur.

Thank you... finally another voice in the chorus.

 

Where's all the press coverage that I kept hearing about that the Browns were going to be playing this season? Gilbert was the best press corner in the draft and was selected as such because he fit Pettine's physical corner scheme.

Gilbert was in press when Tory Smith beat him off the line and Gilbert got the PI flag for grabbing him by his helmet's forehead area. Still a work in progress...

 

The good news was that while Smith got a step on Gilbert he never added any distance to that lead. And this just in... Tory Smith is pretty damn fast.

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fuck you all, especially walter white who has become the board's new constant whiner bitch.

 

how long does it take an OL to gel? 1 game, 2? no, more like years.

The O-line gelling is on-going... and it's showing progress...

 

Left the first line of a classic mik-rant in tact.

 

^ Ever since Haden got paid, he's been smoked like a bitch.

The depth of your analysis is mindboggling...

 

Do you have anything other than simplistic circumstantial "explanations" based upon hindsight? Not even well-aged hindsight at that, which is understandable since you have yet to hold an opinion over a month.

Remember how great Johnny was going to be? How Hoyer needed to step aside?

 

I've been saying, for years, Haden is average.

 

He is small, not fast, and not tough enough to be an elite CB

At 5'11 he's average height.

He's faster than most CBs in the league. Ran a 4.5+ at his combine, but 4.3/4.4 at pro day. What's real? Dunno....

But regardless the real issue I have is your saying he is not tough. He sticks his head in there when runs come his way. Has since day one...

 

It just pisses me off how well Fuller, Roby, and Dennard are playing good and drafted after Gilbert.

Everything pisses you off...

You really should fix that.

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Ok well first off Haden only got "smoked" once and yes it was for a crucial play late in the game. but he shuts down number 1 WRs week in and week out no doubt there. and to hear he is an average player? really?? We had a melt down of global proportions. Gilbert's PI gave up a huge chunk of the field to the enemy..he didn't even play the ball he just panicked. two bad play calls that should have been runs to run the clock out instead were pass plays. missed field goals and a blocked one to boot...yea was not just one players fault. 6 point def. in 3 games??? cant say that about last years team. We beat the Saints? c'mon man...

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Mik with some groundbreaking sharp as a whip comedy and Tour2ma with another cheer up moral victory analysis. Dopes.

At least I perform an analysis rather than ramble on about my impulse of the minute.

 

And it's "sharp as a tack", Brainiac...

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Gilbert- not impressive first three games = bust.

 

Haden was considered the top CB in his draft class. And he's only been to the Pro Bowl. Yeah, he sucks.

 

 

Most of those draft mistakes were from previous Front Office gaffes. Lets see how this year's crop works out- and it takes more than three damn games to evaluate it. Walter, you change your opinions on a weekly basis. You were giving Manziel blow jobs all preseaon- and now you're happy he's sitting.

 

Gilbert has elite measurables- I'd say you need to give him more than 3 NFL games to label him a "bust" or wasted draft pick.

I said so far. What happens next remains to be seen.

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Idk, Haden played pretty stout the whole game. I respect him as one of the true lock down corners who doesn't need to hold 15 yards down the field to cover well like the likes of Revis and others (who get away with it due to their high profiles.)

 

That last play was just Joe reading the coverage and calling the perfect audible to the coverage Haden was playing. Joe gambled and won. Had he lost and Haden been expecting a slant and go it could have been a pick and game over. You win some you lose some.

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Idk, Haden played pretty stout the whole game. I respect him as one of the true lock down corners who doesn't need to hold 15 yards down the field to cover well like the likes of Revis and others (who get away with it due to their high profiles.)

 

That last play was just Joe reading the coverage and calling the perfect audible to the coverage Haden was playing. Joe gambled and won. Had he lost and Haden been expecting a slant and go it could have been a pick and game over. You win some you lose some.

 

This is the response I've being trying to find in all this. I'm not crazy about this idea in practice but watching the play again it seems like this is exactly what happened. Not to mention Flacco made a perfect throw right in the bread basket and Whitner, per the usual this season, was one second too late.

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It just pisses me off how well Fuller, Roby, and Dennard are playing good and drafted after Gilbert.

Fuller and Roby are the 3rd and 4th corners on their teams. Until Tillman got hurt Fuller occasionally came in on the nickel. Same thing with Roby. You wouldn't be doing 90% of the bitching about Gilbert that you currently are if Trufant was healthy.

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It is frustrating losses. We all feel it. So close in Pittsburgh after a remarkable 2nd half return. Close win vs Saints, but damn...a win vs Saints! Then another frustrating one vs Ravens. Two very close losses and one win so far...with a whole new staff, coaches, and quite the different team of players as well.

 

Don't know how much longer my ticker can take it, but these games have been fun to watch and exciting. Offense looks so much better, consistently better even, than it has in years. The problems the Browns are having right now with DEF and ST can be fixed, this year.

 

And at least we didn't have a game like Tampa Bay did vs Atlanta....;)

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That last play was just (Flacco) reading the coverage and calling the perfect audible to the coverage Haden was playing. (Flacco) gambled and won. Had (Flacco) lost and Haden been expecting a slant and go it could have been a pick and game over. You win some you lose some.

Edited for simplicity since there are two Joes in your tale...

 

Best I can tell in the play the coverage Haden was in was man-press. Never saw where our Safeties were, but since they usually dictate coverage reads, (Flacco) must have known neither would be in position to help over the top.

 

Given that the Ravens:

- only needed 15 yds to be within FG range;

- had just run a 5-yd pass play; and

- had 1:28 to get in FG range;

... it is not surprising if our D was hedging towards shorter passes.

 

Smith Sr's route as I remember it was a stop and go. Looked like the mirror image of what Torry ran a year ago(?) that burned Haden for a game winning TD. Both times (Flacco) made his best throw of the game.

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It seemed they were keeping Flacco pretty well contained, and so chose to run the ball a lot...with success. Not huge runs for the most part, but nickel and diming all along.

 

And I'm not sure why Flacco had better success against the 12th man than Brees did...other than my guess is NO didn't realize what they were in for, and BLT learned from their problems.

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Seems we are not alone in being disappointed in Joe's play:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/09/mike_pettine_on_joe_hadens_str.html#incart_social_feature

 

 

Mike Pettine on Joe Haden's struggles: 'The great ones make plays when it's needed'

 

BEREA, Ohio -- The Browns paid Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden like one of the elite cornerbacks in the NFL in the offseason, and coach Mike Pettine called for him to play like it on Monday.
"He's played well at times, but as you can see, at some inopportune times he's not played well,'' said Pettine. "I think he'll admit that, as well. That's what we talk about. The great ones are going to make big plays when it's needed, and I think that's one area where Joe will look to improve."
Pettine was referring specifically to the 32-yard pass that Haden gave up to 14-year veteran Steve Smith down the right side to set up Justin Tucker's gamewinning field goal as time expired to give the Ravens to a 23-21 victory. The 35-year-old wideout sprinted comfortably behind Haden on a go-route and made the big play in crunch time that sealed the victory for his team.
Pettine thinks it should've been the other way around.
"The pass at the end, that was a perfectly thrown ball,'' said Pettine. "We need to make a play though. That's disappointing that we battled for as long as we did. We were going to make them drive and earn it, and they were able to hit and basically end the game there with that big chunk. We have to step up. We talk to the guys all the time – be at your best when your best is needed."
With the Ravens trailing 21-20, Joe Flacco took over at the 50 with 1:58 remaining. Smith's backbreaker came on the second play of the drive, on second and 5 from the 45. After the catch, all Flacco had to do was run down the clock and make way for the kick.
"It was unfortunate that it happened because we're in a bottom-line business, and Joe, for the most part throughout the game, played very well,'' said Pettine. "You can go back to the Saints game (when he gave up a 9-yard TD to Jimmy Graham). You can look at two plays and vilify Joe, but for the rest of the game he played very well. That's life in the NFL."
Pettine said he didn't think Haden was still suffering the ill effects of the foot injury that caused him to miss the final two preseason games.
"Not to my knowledge,'' said Pettine.
But something's not quite right with Haden this season, and the three straight Super Bowl winning quarterbacks they faced have had no qualms about going after him with the game on the line. His struggles are also reflected in the Browns' 27th-ranked pass defense:
* In the opener, a 30-27 loss to the Steelers he gave up a 35-yard TD pass to Antonio Brown, another 18-yarder to Brown that led to a field goal and a holding call on Brown on that same drive. He was called for holding Brown again in the third quarter. He also missed a tackle on Brown on a 41-yard pass on the opening drive.
* In the 26-24 victory over the Saints, Haden gave up the 9-yard TD pass to tight end Jimmy Graham, and a 20-yarder to Graham to the 3 in the fourth quarter that led to a TD two plays later. He also surrendered a 15-yard pass to Robert Meachem.
In fact, Haden is currently ranked 93 out of 95 cornerbacks on profootballfocus.com with a -7.5 grade. He's 90 out of 95 in coverage with a -4.9 grade and is worst among all cornerbacks with a QB rating of 155.3 when they throw into his coverage.
He's also tied for 10th in the NFL with his three penalties and tied for fourth with two TDs surrendered.
But Browns safety Jim Leonhard, a 10-year pro who's in his sixth season under Pettine, says Haden is the least of the Browns' worries.
"You ask Joe,'' said Leonhard. "He's as competitive as it gets and he's as good as it gets in this league, and he's not playing up to his standards right now -- and he'll be the first one to tell you that. But we've got a lot of confidence in Joe. He's the last guy we need to worry about. If we start worrying about Joe, we've got a lot of issues before that.
In the offseason, the Browns rewarded their 2010 No. 7 overall pick with a huge five-year extension worth $68 million, including $45 million in total guarantees and a $13.5 million average. It made him the third highest-paid cornerback in the league behind Arizona's Patrick Peterson ($14.01 million) and Seattle's Richard Sherman ($14 million). Currently, profootballfocus.com has Peterson ranked No. 79 and Sherman No. 23.
"Joe's got a lot of confidence and it's not like he's going to go into a shell here, and not play like himself because of what's happened,'' said Leonhard. "He's got a lot of pride in what he does and the way that he works day in and day out, it's going to get corrected. We all know that.''
Always a standup guy, Haden took full responsibility for the gaffe after the game.
"We pride ourselves on going on the field, making plays and getting stops and I just didn't do that today,'' he said. "It was a really good play. He just got me on a go route. It was a good throw and catch, but I put it on myself and I understand I have to make that play."
Last season, Haden finished 17th overall among cornerbacks on profootballfocus.com, and quarterbacks had only a 75.2 rating when throwing his way. He did, however, finish tied for 10th in the NFL with sixth TDs surrendered.
Still, the Browns are looking for Haden to start playing like the Pro Bowler he was last year.
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It is frustrating losses. We all feel it. So close in Pittsburgh after a remarkable 2nd half return. Close win vs Saints, but damn...a win vs Saints! Then another frustrating one vs Ravens. Two very close losses and one win so far...with a whole new staff, coaches, and quite the different team of players as well.

 

Don't know how much longer my ticker can take it, but these games have been fun to watch and exciting. Offense looks so much better, consistently better even, than it has in years. The problems the Browns are having right now with DEF and ST can be fixed, this year.

 

And at least we didn't have a game like Tampa Bay did vs Atlanta.... ;)

 

We're a couple of play away from being 3-0. Browns convert on that 3rd and seven, and we're not having this discussion. Yes, Haden has been uncharacteristically bad so far. Putting him solo on Graham in the Saints game was a mismatch- and I dare anyone to tell me otherwise. OK, he's given up some big plays- so does ever other CB.

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We're a couple of play away from being 3-0. Browns convert on that 3rd and seven, and we're not having this discussion. Yes, Haden has been uncharacteristically bad so far. Putting him solo on Graham in the Saints game was a mismatch- and I dare anyone to tell me otherwise. OK, he's given up some big plays- so does ever other CB.

Joe Haden got paid 60 million dollars and is a bottom teir starter right now. He's playing like a 60 dollar CB.

 

Yes we got it that all CB's get beat but he's been dogshit so far this year.

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