Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I know this has been talked about before, but how good would Gilbert have to be playing right now to make up the current difference in output between the two? Even if we'd drafted Mack, like I wanted us to, he's also outplaying Gilbert up to this point. But Watkins on the Browns roster getting balls from Hoyer instead of Manuel....we might be 6-1. ANd who knows even that Tn game with one or two explosive plays from Watkins would have changed that game. Gordon and Watkins would have become a legendary receiving tandem of that I'm almost certain. Watkins should get an ice bath blanket party from his teammates though this week for that pre goal line crossing TD celebration. Noob stuff out of him for sure....that's a bad job out of the vets if they don't make him pay for that in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 You left that whole "#1 pick next year" thing out of the equation. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 You left that whole "#1 pick next year" thing out of the equation. Zombo Thats it. No way Watkins was worth paying 2 - #1 picks. And once Buff put that pick on our table, thats what the price was. 2 #1's for Watkins(or Mack). Farmer made the right choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'll concede that nobody expected that pick next year to be a low pick. But it looks like it might be. If we get a mid 1st round pick for it, still not sure. Watkins is that good. It's not just Watkins though, it's Gordon and Watkins. And also think about this. If Gordon comes back and play well, but we still feel he ain't learned his lesson.....we might be able to trade Gordon for a very high 1st rounder. If he plays like he did last year. We obviously can't do that now but if we had Watkins on the team? Maybe we could have. I still think given that we "knew" Gordon was gonna be out for most if not the whole year....passing on Watkins was a blunder. And looking like a bigger one every week. Hoyer would be sodomizing defense's with Watkins on this team. And now JC's out. Everything points to the fact we should have stuck with our pick. Both players on the talent board we passed on, Mack and Watkins, are outplaying GIlbert by a wide margin. And Mack is on that awful Raiders team. I still think we would have solved our long term ILB issue with having Mack learn under Dansby. Hell Dansby might be playing better if he had Mack eating up some blocks for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sammy Watkins is already a STAR WIDE RECEIVER with Ej Manual and Kyle Orton at QB Haven't we seen this movie before when we passed on Julio Jones and JJ Watt for Phil Taylor, Greg Little, and Brandon Weeden. The OP is right. Don't get me wrong, I want to see Gilbert get better and better each week but Watkins is simply a better player than Gilbert. TRADING DOWN DOESN'T WORK IF YOU CAN'T COMPENSATE FOR THE PICK. I didn't like trading down to grab a corner in todays NFL with all the rule changes. Of course we blew it on Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 that's a good point, if he looks good with Orton throwing to him...c'mon guys. Throw Watkins into that first Pgh game and what happens? Good god what would that last Pgh game have looked like? The Rooneys might have had to move the team in shame. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Not that I think Gilbert is utter Garbage mind you, I think he's not bad for a rook. But for a 1st round pick playing with Joe Haden and other guys on that secondary that are really playing well....you should look better. It's not like Gilbert was thrown into the fire and had to guard everyone's #1 from opening day. He's been protected and still hasn't looked that great. Watkins is a superstar right now. He is Buffalo's #1 and if Gilbert has to guard him when we play Buffalo later this year....he's gonna get torched if he doesn't progress some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 We can't account for all of the variables yet. If the browns select a midround beast with the buffalo pick, and Gilbert keeps improving. Browns win. If they package picks to move up and select a superstar browns win. If Watkins gets ass cancer and starts cooking meth to support his family, browns win. If Gilbert and next years first round pick get in a drunk boating accident and die, the bills win. we could go on all day with this speculative bullshit, but the equation isn't complete yet. Sure is some heavy handed complaining for so many unknowns.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 not the dreaded ass cancer noooooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sure is some heavy handed complaining for so many unknowns.... Ray Farmer/Haslam/Pettine KNEW Gordon was going to be suspended and they passed on Watkins anyways. Seems a little arrogant to me. Sammy Watkins = 38 Receptions, 590 yards, 15.5 AVG, and 5 TD's (with Ej Manuel and Kyle Orton) Justin Gilbert = 19 Tackles, 4 Passes defended, 0 FF, 0 INT For a team without a true #1, it was a no brainer to take Sammy Watkins. The leader receiver on our team is Andrew Hawkins is who is not a true #1 with 36 receptions, 470 yards, 13 AVG, and 1TD Yes, Buffalo so far has the better end of the deal the same way ATLANTA raped us for Juilio Jones. Only time will tell but so far Sammy Watkins is a fucking star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Yea, we'll see how gilbert and next years #1 will turn out but what are you gonna do about it. IDC how you spin it you can't evaluate the trade winner in week 9. We're still in contention and we have our true #1 coming back in a couple weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Hindsight is always 20/20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 as for the equation though, it looks solidly in Buffalo's favor right now. Like I said in my first post, how good would Gilbert have to be in order just to balance that equation? And frankly I agree with a previous post that playing for draft picks anymore is a waste. The list of players we've passed on the last 10 years is mind numbing. Watt especially pisses me off cause we were running a 4-3 then and he played 4-3 DE in College. If you all think Watt is good now, consider what he would have done a 4-3 DE that didn't have to deal with double teams on nearly every single down of his NFL career. Those times that Watt gets to line up outside of the tackles and rush like a normal end, I mean it's just sick. There's no tackle in football that can guard him. He would destroy JT. His edge rush is pretty much a straight line. But enough about Watt. I'm just saying, with our draft history, hoping that our Buffalo pick will be a beast is literally like winning the lottery right now. Someone had a thread up not too long ago that gave all the names we passed on in the last 10 or so years. It makes you sick to see it written down. Smith, Watt, Jones etc, etc. There's even names out there that weren't immediate superstars but I think are on their way to being. But just the list of guys that were immediate big time impact players that we passed on, FFS. The calculus just doesn't support passing on Watkins when everyone who knew anything was calling for this kind of production out of him right out of the gate. Gilbert was considered a mid to late round pick at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Yea, we'll see how gilbert and next years #1 will turn out but what are you gonna do about it. IDC how you spin it you can't evaluate the trade winner in week 9. We're still in contention and we have our true #1 coming back in a couple weeks I know...it's just what on earth would be our ceiling with Watkins and Gordon on the same team? Our run game would have to explode as well. Nobody could leave more than 7 men in the box with those two guys and JC prowling around somewhere. And put ontop of that a slot like Hawkins or Austin? It's not like any of what I just said wasn't or couldn't have been projected before the draft. I know we had issues in the secondary cause last year Skrine was not working out. I just think somebody would have still been around at the end of the 1st round or 2nd round for sure. Maybe we wouldn't have been able to draft Johnny though who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Hmmm seems that apart from the TDs, Hawkins is pretty close to Watkins, but that's neither here nor there. The point is that making a draft pick based on ten games, or even 16 games is nearsighted at best. I like Watkins a lot and assume he will have a hell of a career, but a we won't be able to fully evaluate this trade for quite some time. The Julio Jones trade was a disappointment in hindsight. The good news is that Farmer had a strong track record before he got the GM job, and has only added to it since. When you look at all the talent that he has brought on board in his short time at the helm it only stands to reason that he will make the most of those two first rounders next year. Gilbert did look lost at the beginning of the season, but he has been steadily improving. He has started playing the ball instead of the receiver and has the tools to be a top shelf defender. Of course only time will tell, but that's the point... Eight weeks is too soon to evaluate any rookie, let alone one that won't even be drafted for another six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I know...it's just what on earth would be our ceiling with Watkins and Gordon on the same team? Our run game would have to explode as well. Nobody could leave more than 7 men in the box with those two guys and JC prowling around somewhere. And put ontop of that a slot like Hawkins or Austin? It's not like any of what I just said wasn't or couldn't have been projected before the draft. I know we had issues in the secondary cause last year Skrine was not working out. I just think somebody would have still been around at the end of the 1st round or 2nd round for sure. Maybe we wouldn't have been able to draft Johnny though who knows. The whole defense appears to be picking it up the last few games, especially the secondary. Gilbert may step it up in the 2nd half of the season, we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 YYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Hawkins though isn't getting double teamed like Watkins is. The focus of any secondary right now against Buffalo is to stop Watkins. I like Hawkins too though. I think he would explode as the slot if we had Gordon and another player like Watkins. I think he'd be unblockable in the slot tbh. Asking him to stretch downfield though is when we lose some production out of him. We're asking him and Austin right now to stretch the secondary downfield play after play and their just not built for that. They're slashers. Could Welker have ever done that? No, his career was made being the slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Truthfully, our receiving core has filled in nicely since Gordon has been gone but the problem I'm starting to have is with our defensive front 7. This team needs a DT, DE, OLB, and ILB along with addressing #2 receiver, and o-line depth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypicalBrowns Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sorry, its too early to determine. Gilbert is picking it up, and shores up the CB depth. I'd rather have a defensive backfield with players like Haden, Gipson, Whitner, Kwaun, Gilbert, if they all play steady then dude, that is a studded out secondary. With Gordon back Austin at 2 Hawk in slot Gabriel, Benjamin also That is not yet a studded out WR corps, but its close. WR isnt a top need. We have the best WR of last year. He will be back and the Browns O will be even more consistent. The draft pick of Manziel could be called the worse option, cause he hasnt played and looked raw as hell in preseason, but hopefully he learns and develops accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Truthfully, our receiving core has filled in nicely since Gordon has been gone but the problem I'm starting to have is with our defensive front 7. This team needs a DT, DE, OLB, and ILB along with addressing #2 receiver, and o-line depth They have done pretty decent, but Hoyer has to rely more on being open/speed than being able to let a receiver like Gordon make a play on the ball. Of course that'll change when gordon comes back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 ANd who knows even that Tn game with one or two explosive plays from Watkins would have changed that game. I'm sorry... What exactly would you change about the greatest come from behind road victory of all time? Thats it. No way Watkins was worth paying 2 - #1 picks. That depends on the #1's. Looking more and more like the price was fair... and soon may look cheap. The OP is right. Don't get me wrong, I want to see Gilbert get better and better each week but Watkins is simply a better player than Gilbert. Watkins was a Pro ready talent at an easier position... that is what you are seeing. Throw Watkins into that first Pgh game and what happens? 3 rec for 31 yds? That was his Week 1 line vs. CHI... Hindsight is always 20/20. Not around here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Ray Farmer/Haslam/Pettine KNEW Gordon was going to be suspended and they passed on Watkins anyways. Seems a little arrogant to me. For a team without a true #1, it was a no brainer to take Sammy Watkins. If it was such a no brainer then why did you take Manziel in your "Meth Lab Mock" at #4? 4. QB - Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M So, we get our savior. I think he's too talented to pass up. He will require a lot of work to adjust to the pro game but the talent is there. The media will freak out when this pick haps. Everyone will either love it or freak out but either way this will finally bring a lot of ESPN/NFL coverage to Cleveland and give us the star power we need. He's also going to be a star at the next level in my eyes. Johnny Cleveland will be heard for centuries to come. I see Brett Favre attitude/Joe Namath showmanship/Fran Tarkenton type improv talent. He'll play pissed off we upset Pittsburgh week 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Truthfully, our receiving core has filled in nicely since Gordon has been gone but the problem I'm starting to have is with our defensive front 7. This team needs a DT, DE, OLB, and ILB along with addressing #2 receiver, and o-line depth FFS... ADD??? Gotta be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 If it was such a no brainer then why did you take Manziel in your "Meth Lab Mock" at #4? Because at the time I didn't know Josh Gordon was going to be suspended a day after the draft... NOBODY DID. In fact, if it would have been reported before the draft that Gordon was facing a year long suspension and we still passed on Watkins The media firestorm and fans would have thrown The organization to the fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Because at the time I didn't know Josh Gordon was going to be suspended a day after the draft... NOBODY DID. You just said, "Ray Farmer/Haslam/Pettine KNEW Gordon was going to be suspended and they passed on Watkins anyways." Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 You just said, "Ray Farmer/Haslam/Pettine KNEW Gordon was going to be suspended and they passed on Watkins anyways." Which is it? Backtracking. I'd say. Also, has anyone realized that Watkins' games have essentially consisted of being a monster, or being super quiet? It's not like the kid is taking over the NFL in his rookie season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Bar very few studs the draft is a crapshoot and the more picks you have at it the better chance you have, Farmer did the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 So op, since you think he's worth 2 first round picks and Buff made a smart move. Then what would you say if the Browns traded next years pick, plus #4 to move up and grab him.??? You'd like that? Now, we have Watkins(like Buff) and we have NO pick next year(like Buff) and we have no CB prospect. Or. If we had Orton and Manuel for our QB's and we traded away the next 2 drafts for a WR(brilliant, right?) Sheesh. Both of these sound very very bleak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 You just said, "Ray Farmer/Haslam/Pettine KNEW Gordon was going to be suspended and they passed on Watkins anyways." Which is it? What don't you understand. I think we should have drafted Watkins at 4 because Gordon was facing a year long suspension. Nobody knew until A DAY AFTER THE DRAFT GORDON WAS GOING TO GET SUSPENDED EXCEPT HASLAM/FARMER/PETTINE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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