gftChris Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/browns_travis_benjamin_agent_i.html "I'm optimistic that something will get something done in the near future,'' Butler. "We've been in contact with the organization here in the last couple of weeks and we're still trying to figure out how we can get this thing done where both sides agree to a fair offer. But Cleveland has made strides in terms of getting him back in a Browns uniform.'' Seems like maybe he's valued more highly by Huey Jackson and the Harvard three than he was by Ray "don't like that new-fangled passing game" Farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I stuck up for Ray Farmer but in hindsight, I have no idea what he was trying to achieve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I stuck up for Ray Farmer but in hindsight, I have no idea what he was trying to achieve What killed Farmer, apart from any infighting/texting, was his inability to make the big time investments pay off. We have some really promising pieces in place, the likes of Bitonio, Johnson, Orchard, Cooper, Shelton, Meder, Crowell, Kirksey, Williams, and others that were all brought in by him, but in terms of big free agent signings, Dansby has been solid, Whitner worse than Ward (who wanted to stay but is now in the SB), Bowe is catastrophic, Rob Housler - remember him? - was brought in for decent money and promptly left. Draft picks - Gilbert and Manziel won't likely be on the team in 2016, Shelton has been OK and hopefully will improve but hardly set the world alight, Erving looked pretty disastrous. Bitonio is his highest pick that looks like he could be very good, and from six round one or two picks, that's not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 It seems conclusive he had no choice re Manziel but fine make sure you give him the chance to succeed. He gave a short QB even shorter receivers and he couldn't see any of them. Off field problems would have ruined it anyway but the point still stands Both Gilbert and Erving are incredibly raw (being polite) and were taken in the first. Just gave us no chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 It seems conclusive he had no choice re Manziel but fine make sure you give him the chance to succeed. He gave a short QB even shorter receivers and he couldn't see any of them. Off field problems would have ruined it anyway but the point still stands Both Gilbert and Erving are incredibly raw (being polite) and were taken in the first. Just gave us no chance And he couldn't see that part of the reason Manziel succeeded in college was because he had a WR with a huge catch radius. It would seem obvious that you would try to create an environment for your supposed franchise QB that borrows some things from what he succeeded with in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 And he couldn't see that part of the reason Manziel succeeded in college was because he had a WR with a huge catch radius. It would seem obvious that you would try to create an environment for your supposed franchise QB that borrows some things from what he succeeded with in college. Butt, butt, butt ................Bowe and Mayle it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Travis Benjamin is a nice piece of the puzzle, but unfortunately...he will fit better if we have a certain other piece. It's infuriating just how much we need Josh Gordon. I know people will disagree with me, but to have a guy like Gordon...man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Travis Benjamin is a nice piece of the puzzle, but unfortunately...he will fit better if we have a certain other piece. It's infuriating just how much we need Josh Gordon. I know people will disagree with me, but to have a guy like Gordon...man... Who could possibly disagree with that? He was busted after Week 17, for having booze on an airplane... WITH A COACH. He's not a pariah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I agree whole heartedly! Why would you draft a small quarterback and not draft Mike Evans or Kelvin Benjamin type receiver? And drafting Vincent Mayle was really really stupid! I believe they drafted Erving for the day Alex Mack decides to leave. Justin Gilbert was Pettine's "Boy". Maybe Gilbert will change with a new coach? Thanks Ray, you stubborn horses ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Yet somehow Russell Wilson makes due with a set of WRs that are 5'10, 6'1, 5'10, 6'0 and 6'1... Why is that? And one the shortest was his best... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 The whole "only good because he's tossing it up to big Mike Evans" narrative is pretty played out. It was never true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Agree... Also true? Mike Evans is more than just a tall WR who pushes off everytime... which is how I think I mistakenly characterized him prior to his draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Manziel was good in college because he was in college. Receivers are the most overrated players on the field. The Panthers will probably win the Super Bowl and no one seems to care that their best wide receiver is Ted Ginn Jr. Almost every year the champions win with QB play and defense. We have neither and we still have people complaining about receivers? Do you people pay attention to what happens in the NFL or do you just watch your diabetic neighbor play madden? Remember that one time Bellicheck drafted a receiver in the first round? Yeah, neither does anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Agree... Also true? Mike Evans is more than just a tall WR who pushes off everytime... which is how I think I mistakenly characterized him prior to his draft. I liked him but I didn't think he'd be as good as soon as he has been. Oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Agree... Also true? Mike Evans is more than just a tall WR who pushes off everytime... which is how I think I mistakenly characterized him prior to his draft. I wouldn't have argued with that. Refs around here let both sides get away with murder on the boundaries. That said, Evans has some tremendous tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I wouldn't have argued with that. Refs around here let both sides get away with murder on the boundaries. That said, Evans has some tremendous tools. Does that include the one that threw to him in Texas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 It did, but obviously it no longer does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Mike Evans certainly pushes off more than most, but if they don't call it...LOL. Evans also has more infuriating drops than just about anybody on the planet. Still, he's a viable threat, and will probably only get more dangerous. You know who else pushes off? Kelvin Benjamin for the Panthers. I know he was hurt this season (geez...think about the Panthers with HIM healthy), but in his early years, he had about 5 touchdowns called back in college for pushing off, LOL. However, he learned how to do it "legally" and he blossomed. What do Evans and Kelvin have in common? SIZE, SIZE, and more SIZE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 It did, but obviously it no longer does. I just wanted to make a joke about JFF being a massive tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I just wanted to make a joke about JFF being a massive tool. Ha! I didn't get it, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Manziel was good in college because he was in college. Receivers are the most overrated players on the field. The Panthers will probably win the Super Bowl and no one seems to care that their best wide receiver is Ted Ginn Jr. Almost every year the champions win with QB play and defense. We have neither and we still have people complaining about receivers? Do you people pay attention to what happens in the NFL or do you just watch your diabetic neighbor play madden? Remember that one time Bellicheck drafted a receiver in the first round? Yeah, neither does anyone else. Good post. And, I agree. But technically, there was Derrick Alexander WR 2014 7 29 244 Jeremy Gallon Michigan 2013 2 27 59 Aaron Dobson Marshall 2013 4 5 102 Josh Boyce Texas Christian 2012 7 28 235 Jeremy Ebert Northwestern 2010 3 26 90 Taylor Price Ohio 2009 3 19 83 Brandon Tate North Carolina 2008 5 18 153 Matt Slater UCLA 2006 2 4 36 Chad Jackson Florida 2004 5 32 164 P.K. Sam Florida State 2003 2 13 45 Bethel Johnson Texas A&M 2002 2 33 65 Deion Branch Louisville 2002 7 33 244 David Givens Notre Dame 1995 5 13 147 Mike Miller Notre Dame 1995 7 23 231 A.C. Tellison Miami (FL) 1994 1 29 29 Derrick Alexander Michigan 1992 2 24 52 Patrick Rowe San Diego State 1992 6 3 143 Rico Smith Colorado 1992 11 9 289 Augustin Olobia Washington State 1991 6 2 141 Michael Jackson Southern Mississippi 1991 9 16 239 Shawn Wiggins Wyoming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Mike Evans certainly pushes off more than most, but if they don't call it...LOL. Evans also has more infuriating drops than just about anybody on the planet. Still, he's a viable threat, and will probably only get more dangerous. You know who else pushes off? Kelvin Benjamin for the Panthers. I know he was hurt this season (geez...think about the Panthers with HIM healthy), but in his early years, he had about 5 touchdowns called back in college for pushing off, LOL. However, he learned how to do it "legally" and he blossomed. What do Evans and Kelvin have in common? SIZE, SIZE, and more SIZE. Did anyone miss Gronks pushoff in the back of the endzone when he scored over the smaller DB? They never really showed it later in the highlights of the Denver loss, just the ending TD catch. He gets away with it more than any other NFL player. Here was the best they would actually show. https://youtu.be/DwvG_gV7hgk?t=2m24s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I think pushing off is pretty much a skill that most good receivers develop....and then, the better they are, the more "breaks" they are given......see Antonio Brown for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Agree... offensive PI is undercalled, but I'd rather the refs call Defensive less than try to equalize offensive by throwing even more flags. I wouldn't have argued with that. Refs around here let both sides get away with murder on the boundaries. That said, Evans has some tremendous tools. Poorly worded by me... Yes, Evans still pushes off a lot, but since he's been a pro I've seen adjustments and body control I never saw at A&M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 mike evans was my fave receiver in that draft. push off or not, the browns have no one a qb can throw the ball 6 ft. over their had and come down with it in the end zone while little flea cbs bounce up and off him like the fleas they are (compared to him). gronk? mark bavarro? ozzie? can we find someone bigger that a beetle to grab a ball over their heads and then steam roll people into the end zone? maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 mike evans was my fave receiver in that draft. push off or not, the browns have no one a qb can throw the ball 6 ft. over their had and come down with it in the end zone while little flea cbs bounce up and off him like the fleas they are (compared to him). gronk? mark bavarro? ozzie? can we find someone bigger that a beetle to grab a ball over their heads and then steam roll people into the end zone? maybe? You were right on Evans, for sure. I still wish they had taken Allen Robinson in that draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Good post. And, I agree. But technically, there was Derrick Alexander WR 2014 7 29 244 Jeremy Gallon Michigan 2013 2 27 59 Aaron Dobson Marshall 2013 4 5 102 Josh Boyce Texas Christian 2012 7 28 235 Jeremy Ebert Northwestern 2010 3 26 90 Taylor Price Ohio 2009 3 19 83 Brandon Tate North Carolina 2008 5 18 153 Matt Slater UCLA 2006 2 4 36 Chad Jackson Florida 2004 5 32 164 P.K. Sam Florida State 2003 2 13 45 Bethel Johnson Texas A&M 2002 2 33 65 Deion Branch Louisville 2002 7 33 244 David Givens Notre Dame 1995 5 13 147 Mike Miller Notre Dame 1995 7 23 231 A.C. Tellison Miami (FL) 1994 1 29 29 Derrick Alexander Michigan 1992 2 24 52 Patrick Rowe San Diego State 1992 6 3 143 Rico Smith Colorado 1992 11 9 289 Augustin Olobia Washington State 1991 6 2 141 Michael Jackson Southern Mississippi 1991 9 16 239 Shawn Wiggins Wyoming You're right, I meant patriot era Belichick, after he had learned how to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 mike evans was my fave receiver in that draft. push off or not, the browns have no one a qb can throw the ball 6 ft. over their had and come down with it in the end zone while little flea cbs bounce up and off him like the fleas they are (compared to him). gronk? mark bavarro? ozzie? can we find someone bigger that a beetle to grab a ball over their heads and then steam roll people into the end zone? maybe? Barnidge.....and Terrelle Pryor if he sticks and performs. Gordon, if he returns.....and yes, I am in favor of drafting a big WR. Mayle was supposed to be there as well. How could they have missed so badly on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Barnidge.....and Terrelle Pryor if he sticks and performs. Gordon, if he returns.....and yes, I am in favor of drafting a big WR. Mayle was supposed to be there as well. How could they have missed so badly on him? Hartline is 6'2" also. With him and Barnie that's two. And don't forget bowe and housler... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Housler was released. Bowe probably will be too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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