Camp Wentz- Starts here.

[tiamat63]

I think where we all agree on liking Farve might not have been his QB style, but his in-game attitude.

 

The guy loves football. He took great joy in his team mates surrounding him and genuinely appeared like a big kid at the playground. Which in and of itself, is something I rather admire. When you see someone like that where they have such a passion for their craft, it brings a smile to ones face.

 

He may have been a gunslinger with a penchant for the damning turnover, but it was a joy watching Brett Farve play the game.

 

I wouldn't mind a QB with something of a similar mentality.

[Tour2ma]

oh god i'm seeing Farve's name thrown around now. Can I nominate Camp wentz and camp goff be renamed to camp dumbass A and dumbass B?

Only if you can find a second...

 

I wouldn't mind a QB with something of a similar mentality.

Isn't one still on the roster?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

... and I am on record as not being a Favre fan. That said, I cannot say watching Wentz brings Favre to mind so his fav QB matters about as much as his favorite color.

 

The link is dead. I get a "Sorry, that page doesn't exist" message.

 

Totally agree on the independence of variables... these are not Xbox QBs with sliders and only so many attribute points to distribute.

 

Also acknowledge the limitations in inferring reads/progressions or lack thereof in a broadcast tape. My feel is based in part on the number of forced throws when any duress was minimal. I'll look for the play you detailed next session.

 

Shit. Here: https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/692744502583390209

 

 

 

 

oh god i'm seeing Farve's name thrown around now. Can I nominate Camp wentz and camp goff be renamed to camp dumbass A and dumbass B?

 

Context.

 

I think where we all agree on liking Farve might not have been his QB style, but his in-game attitude.

 

The guy loves football. He took great joy in his team mates surrounding him and genuinely appeared like a big kid at the playground. Which in and of itself, is something I rather admire. When you see someone like that where they have such a passion for their craft, it brings a smile to ones face.

 

He may have been a gunslinger with a penchant for the damning turnover, but it was a joy watching Brett Farve play the game.

 

I wouldn't mind a QB with something of a similar mentality.

 

Exactly. It's like watching Cam Newton today. That dude is literally just a big kid playing a game out there and genuinely having fun. Of course, it helps when you're winning...

[Tour2ma]

Shit. Here: https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/692744502583390209

Got it... chuckled at the "bluffing" count as I scrolled down the page...

[Mike H]

tia, respect the hell out of your football opinions, but just don't see this one. Everything I see says that between his football ears Wentz is not close to Goff and that Goff is "there".

 

And every failure at QB we have suffered since "the reconstruction" has been between the ears. I'm not willing to take that chance again.

 

 

Ultimately depends upon how many elite prospects are in the draft and the distance between them and the 2nd best prospects for a given position, doesn't it?

 

Take Bosa, the most popular "elite" around here who plays at a high-value position. What matters as much or more than whether he really is elite or not is how far Buckner is behind him. If Buckner is close and Bosa goes #1 to TN, then the #2's value jumps immediately as the next best DE (Dodd?) is well behind.

 

The other non-QB that jumps at me is Jack at OLB. Due to size questions I still have trouble seeing a use that sets his value high, but if he rises as high as some have him he becomes a very valuable commodity due to Smith's knee.

 

Other candidates may emerge from OT and CB, but to my eye there are too many very good candidates at these positions for anything less than generationally elite prospects to separate themselves.

 

I don't see teams giving or wanting to give up multiple first round picks for either of those guys. And Bosa (not even close for Jack) is as close to "Generationally elite" as there are from what I have seen.

[jrb12711]

To weigh in on the whole "reaching" debate, I feel like the one position you can and should do that for in the draft is someone you think is a franchise QB. I know, but what about insert guy who didn't work out, RG3!. The fact of the matter is the vast majority of QB's don't work out, and sometimes you get lucky and a guy like Carr falls. But sometimes you take a chance and get a seemingly franchise caliber QB like the Jags have with Bortles.

 

If I've said it once I've said it 1000 times. The reason the Browns have stunk so bad is because they make terrible choices in drafting QB's. That can be with the first pick, the 22nd pick (Dear Jesus on that damn number), the 3rd round, the fifth round, it doesn't matter. I get the counterargument, but missing on a franchise guy is going to set your team back no matter when he's drafted. But the fact of the matter is, without a franchise QB you aren't winning jack shit in the NFL and it's worth taking a risk on that position. You can draft 10 Joey Bosas and even maybe eclipse the playoffs but the Texans are a harsh reality of how that plays out every time.

[gumby73]

 

Shit. Here: https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/692744502583390209

 

 

 

 

 

Context.

 

 

Exactly. It's like watching Cam Newton today. That dude is literally just a big kid playing a game out there and genuinely having fun. Of course, it helps when you're winning...

Cam in Carolina is known as a 50% Farve in fun & 50% Muhammad Ali cause he's gonna tell you threw emotions. Enjoy. You were close.

[macula31]

Sign me up...

http://thedraftwire.usatoday.com/2016/01/28/source-cleveland-browns-have-legitimate-interest-in-carson-wentz-at-no-2/

 

 

It only stands to reason the most talked about draft prospect, North Dakota State quarterback Carson Wentz, gets thrown in the mix for the highest pick a quarterback could be selected in the 2016 NFL Draft.

With the Tennessee Titans not in the market for a quarterback, the Cleveland Browns, at No. 2, are in the top spot to take a passer. Initial reports surrounding the team suggest Cleveland is hoping to do just that in April. It just might not be Cal’s Jared Goff, like many have projected early in this draft season.

Matt Miller of Bleacher Report can confirm what we at Draft Wire heard from a source Thursday. The Browns have taken an interest in Wentz, and it’s enough to suggest he’s the front-runner for the second overall pick.

Wentz has been the talk of the Senior Bowl as it enters its final practices before Saturday’s game. The ability he showed while in Mobile, Alabama, justifies the Browns’ interest in him. The question is whether Wentz can be prepped to play right away in the NFL.

Considering the Browns have Josh McCown under contract already, they have the opportunity to not force a rookie quarterback on the field, barring injury. A quarterback seems to be the right move for the franchise that’s perhaps had the worst run of quarterback development in the booming passing era of the NFL. Cleveland traded up in the first round of the 2014 NFL Draft to select Johnny Manziel, but appear to be preparing to release the second year player.

New coach Hue Jackson has an excellent track record molding quarterbacks. He oversaw a part of Andy Dalton’s development while serving as the Bengals’ offensive coordinator the last two seasons. Dalton was considered an MVP candidate before he fractured his thumb against the Steelers in Week 14.

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Cam in Carolina is known as a 50% Farve in fun & 50% Muhammad Ali cause he's gonna tell you threw emotions. Enjoy. You were close.

 

Believe me, I know. I live in Uptown Charlotte. I'd love for the Browns to emulate as many things as hey can about Carolina's offense right now, because this city is booming right now.

 

The city of Cleveland deserves it.

[Vagitron]

I don't believe any of the qbs are worth a first round pick. I'd love to know when the notion came to be that the top qbs declared for the draft should automatically get plugged in, in the first round. If the Browns are smart they go with lukie another season and build up the team in other areas even if it means another dreadful season.

[tiamat63]

If the Browns are to emulate Carolina's offense, then Hue better get some nasty built into that Oline and be ready to replace Erving with a road grader. The Panthers running game is no joke and one of the best in the league.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

If the Browns are to emulate Carolina's offense, then Hue better get some nasty built into that Oline and be ready to replace Erving with a road grader. The Panthers running game is no joke and one of the best in the league.

You mean that offensive line with two undrafteds, a third round pick, a second round pick and a first round pick they signed in FA (who's pretty garbage).

 

It just goes to show you, it doesn't always matter where you draft them as long as you coach them up right.

[Tour2ma]

Doesn't hurt that Stewart is running behind that "coached up" line.

[hoorta]

I don't believe any of the qbs are worth a first round pick. I'd love to know when the notion came to be that the top qbs declared for the draft should automatically get plugged in, in the first round. If the Browns are smart they go with lukie another season and build up the team in other areas even if it means another dreadful season.

 

Problem there Vag is twofold. First, the Natives are very restless. Yet another shit 3-4 wins isn't going to play in Parma very well. The positive option is should we pass on one of the quarterbacks- and manage to draft in the 10-12 range next year, we've shot ourselves in the foot as far as moving up to take a top signal caller. The word is build through the draft, and a RG III deal isn't in the Browns future.

 

I'm hesitant on Wentz, but Ben didn't exactly play against teams the level of Alabama every week in college either.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Doesn't hurt that Stewart is running behind that "coached up" line.

That also helps.

[Vagitron]

 

Problem there Vag is twofold. First, the Natives are very restless. Yet another shit 3-4 wins isn't going to play in Parma very well. The positive option is should we pass on one of the quarterbacks- and manage to draft in the 10-12 range next year, we've shot ourselves in the foot as far as moving up to take a top signal caller. The word is build through the draft, and a RG III deal isn't in the Browns future.

 

I'm hesitant on Wentz, but Ben didn't exactly play against teams the level of Alabama every week in college either.

Are we comparing Wentz to Ben? I haven't seen one serious analyst say anything overwhelmingly positive about any of the qbs in this draft. If I were a dyed in the wool Browns fan id want them to pass on a qb this season and build up some support for the eventual qb. You otherwise find yourself throwing a young kid to the wolves because he has shit around him. I like barnyard and really think Duke Johnson can be good. I think Benjamin is a solid number three or a decent two but he's sure as shit isn't a one. Hartline is steady, also not a one but a fringe two/three. The Browns would do very well for themselves drafting a guy like bosa and braxton Miller in the second who absolutey wrecked senior bowl corner backs. Miller that high may be a reach but if he blows up the combine he's going to shoot up the boards. He has already after the practices. No way do I reach on a qb unless they can trade down and really backload picks. I wouldn't touch one in the first.

[hoorta]

Are we comparing Wentz to Ben? I haven't seen one serious analyst say anything overwhelmingly positive about any of the qbs in this draft. If I were a dyed in the wool Browns fan id want them to pass on a qb this season and build up some support for the eventual qb. You otherwise find yourself throwing a young kid to the wolves because he has shit around him. I like barnyard and really think Duke Johnson can be good. I think Benjamin is a solid number three or a decent two but he's sure as shit isn't a one. Hartline is steady, also not a one but a fringe two/three. The Browns would do very well for themselves drafting a guy like bosa and braxton Miller in the second who absolutey wrecked senior bowl corner backs. Miller that high may be a reach but if he blows up the combine he's going to shoot up the boards. He has already after the practices. No way do I reach on a qb unless they can trade down and really backload picks. I wouldn't touch one in the first.

 

Hell, we don't need Andrew Luck good, we just need better than the crap we've seen over the last 15 years.

 

The question would be- have you watched any tape of the current qb prospects? I'm not high on Lynch- who mastered the art of a short passing game.

I'll tell you one thing about Wentz Vag. He has a Ben arm, and damn near Ben bulk. He'll get questioned the same way Flacco did about level of competition, and if he can adjust. If he had played for an SEC school, he'd be the consensus #1 pick.

 

Goff is getting comparisons to Matt Ryan, and if that's accurate, I'd send Manziel and a pick to Atlanta right now for Matty Ice.

[RoyceRolls]

I'm in the same boat as TCPO right now, I'm not saying we need to take Goff over Wentz or vice versa, but one of these guys on the roster would make me feel much better about the future.

 

It reminds me of a few years ago when I wanted Bridgewater. Bortles was a guy that I would've welcomed with open arms, but I viewed him as a bigger project. Being the impatient fan that I am, I endorsed the prospect I viewed as the most pro ready.

 

At this moment I feel like Goff is the most pro ready and also the safest bet. As I've said before, Goff may not become a top tier guy, but He definitely has a place in the league. There's a lot to like about Wentz and he may end up being the better prospect when the dust settles. All that matters is the Cleveland Browns obtaining a franchise QB.

 

I know gip read a blog post from late 2013 authored by Bill Polian's mailman stating that there are no 1st round QBs in this class, but to my eye that isn't the case...

[jrb12711]

You mean that offensive line with two undrafteds, a third round pick, a second round pick and a first round pick they signed in FA (who's pretty garbage).

 

It just goes to show you, it doesn't always matter where you draft them as long as you coach them up right.

 

Don't you go talking about Blind Side like that!

 

But yeah, living in NC too and with my brother being a huge fan I've really seen this team become the team that's in the Super Bowl. While they do have a pretty damn good OL, it wasn't because they were top 10 dudes. It's been more a steady, consistent commitment to running the football that forged them into a team that now has an insane amount of straight games with 100 yards rushing. It's not a coincidence that a lot of SB winning teams run the ball more than they pass.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Don't you go talking about Blind Side like that!

 

But yeah, living in NC too and with my brother being a huge fan I've really seen this team become the team that's in the Super Bowl. While they do have a pretty damn good OL, it wasn't because they were top 10 dudes. It's been more a steady, consistent commitment to running the football that forged them into a team that now has an insane amount of straight games with 100 yards rushing. It's not a coincidence that a lot of SB winning teams run the ball more than they pass.

There are some funny stories about Oher going around right now. For instance, Mike Remmers picked his number because of the movie The Blind Side, then when the Panthers acquired Oher he refused to give it up.

 

Also, some players stopped practice and reportedly gave Oher the speech that Sandra Bullock gives him in the movie about protecting his QB.

 

I'm a big fan of this Panthers team right now, they're having fun and it's good to see. Hopefully the Browns can get to that point soon.

[wargograw]

Oher kinda sucks now. Norwell is the man though.

[tiamat63]

You mean that offensive line with two undrafteds, a third round pick, a second round pick and a first round pick they signed in FA (who's pretty garbage).

 

It just goes to show you, it doesn't always matter where you draft them as long as you coach them up right.

 

Also take into consideration the type of running game and the backs they block for.

[One Post]

Browns get the first qb available so don't f&@k it up. I see no sure thing this year trade down a couple of spots and land Wentz of Goff.

[SPEK216]

I'm with bbedward in Camp Goff. After watching a lot of Wentz, he rarely looks off his primary target. RARELY. That's a scary sight. If you watch Goff, he is so much more advanced with going through his progressions and looking off safeties.

 

I do like Wentz's size though, he will hold up well in the NFL. But I'd rather have Goff, he's so cerebral in the pocket.

[Clevfan4life]

Doesn't hurt that Stewart is running behind that "coached up" line.

 

I like Stewart but if he was running behind Cleveland line we'd all be yelling for him to gtfo after the season ended. Carolina's O line pushed the Seahawks D around. I didn't see a whole lot of fancy traps or tickling a guys balls out of the gap....they just rolled their sleeves up. And they didn't get intimidated either. Lotta things happened in that game that I've never seen happen to that Hawks team. The Panthers are special. If they keep that team together they could be SB contenders for years.

 

What is scary is if one of those Bama lineman falls deep into the 1st round, which they probably won't....but if the Panthers can get one of those guys as depth for Allen, cause he's probably got one more year left in him tops....

[TexasAg1969]

Here is the question to ask and answer properly. Do you see a real franchise QB in this draft or not? If you are not absolutely sure (but hope yes) or your answer is "no", then you have to go with BPA regardless of position. If your answer is a resounding "yes-without a doubt" then take the QB. At the moment mine is not a "yes", more like a "maybe and sure hope so". So for now I go with BPA. We'll see after free agency/pro days/combines are done.

[bbedward]

Here is the question to ask and answer properly. Do you see a real franchise QB in this draft or not? If you are not absolutely sure (but hope yes) or your answer is "no", then you have to go with BPA regardless of position. If your answer is a resounding "yes-without a doubt" then take the QB. At the moment mine is not a "yes", more like a "maybe and sure hope so". So for now I go with BPA. We'll see after free agency/pro days/combines are done.

 

It's the most "yes" we're gonna get, and the most "yes" we've seen since 2012.

 

The "yes-without a doubt" is a once in a decade thing.

 

It's the best draft in the history of the world for DL/DE talent, our analytics guys can find one at 32.

[gftChris]

It's the best draft in the history of the world for DL/DE talent, our analytics guys can find one at 32.

This is what's making me lean towards QB at #2. Bosa would be great, but Bosa and Connor Cook isn't as good as, say, Goff and Washington, or Ogbhah or whoever.

[jrb12711]

There are some funny stories about Oher going around right now. For instance, Mike Remmers picked his number because of the movie The Blind Side, then when the Panthers acquired Oher he refused to give it up.

 

Also, some players stopped practice and reportedly gave Oher the speech that Sandra Bullock gives him in the movie about protecting his QB.

 

I'm a big fan of this Panthers team right now, they're having fun and it's good to see. Hopefully the Browns can get to that point soon.

 

Yeah, TBH I kind of feel bad for the dude. I mean I'm sure he agreed for that movie to be made, but you know he gets ribbed hard for it. I hear you though, Charlotte and really the whole state of NC is a fun football state of being right now. Watching the NFC championship here in GSO was a riot, people dabbing everywhere and spending a trillion dollars on booze and food. It really shows how much a good team can mean to a city and a whole state, and I hope the Browns can turn that corner.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

After watching a lot of Wentz, he rarely looks off his primary target. RARELY. That's a scary sight.

 

 

Honest question - What constitutes " a lot of Wentz"? Did you come up with this yourself, or is it the popular opinion that you saw on other forums, then peeped a game tape or two to see if it's true?

 

 

Because that's not the case. A lack of left-right progression doesn't signal "locking on" to your primary target.