Will McCown be given the chance to beat out RG III?

[gumby73]

To have a team with no QB, then go to the draft with the #2 and #32 picks, and not come away with a QB, preferring to let two pieces of shit battle it out, is beyond stupid. It has to be the dumbest thing Cleveland sports has ever seen. Hey, I understand the philosophy of getting some stop gap players, I get it. ....... IF your team is already flush. But the Browns have nothing. There is a reason losing teams get the higher draft picks, it is so that they can add the better players and become competitive.

It's called a 2 part rebuild. 14 drafted, 6 FA's & a bunch of UDFA in 2016 with no pads on yet. Here's 2017- 12 more picks- 1st-ours & Philly. 2nd-ours & Tenn. 3rd-ours. 4th-Mack,Schwartz & Gipson comp. 5th-own & Benji comp. 6th-own. 7th from Colts. Comps. will be tradeable in 17 I believe?(your favorite)

[Flugel]

Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3?

Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3?

Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3?

 

 

You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses.

 

Well done One!

 

The only thing I'll slightly challenge is who we can thank for RG3's departure. Part of it is RG3's immaturity which won't be bad in the long term if a more humble QB can be coached up into what he's capable of. Another part of it was RG3's durability.

 

There was an article that summarized Mike Shanahan's feelings about what unfolded. Cliff notes version, Daniel Snyder thought all he had to do was re-wire RG3 to be a stationary pocket passer where RG3 went from a playoff and rookie of the year caliber performer to no longer welcome, along with Mike Shanahan. Snyder even made RG3 call a meeting with his coaching staff to inform them of the changes he allegedly wanted (which of course Shanahan knew were the ones Snyder wanted).

 

Joe Theisman wasn't wired to be a 6'0" stationary pocket passer any more than RG3. Therefore, he did a lot of bootleg (out-of-pocket) waggle passes under Joe Gibbs. In fact, Theisman was originally drafted by the Miami Dolphins but like other 6' QBs that went on to frequent Pro Bowls and NFL Playoffs such as Warren Moon and Jeff Garcia - he would need the CFL experience prior to the right system match for skill set. Gibbs mixed in some 5-7 step drops in some occasional cup protections upfront with deep passes to the post or flag. I think that was done with RG3 as well. Another good thing for the former 6' Heisman Trophy winners was a running game featuring John Riggins or Alfred Morris. You can't set up good play-action waggle passes without that strong running game.

 

I think Connor Shaw and RG3 bring us skill-sets for a good out of pocket passing game. My biggest worry with both is durability. Josh McCown proved to be a very reliable QB here but he also fell victim to durability issues (although he could have avoided pretending he was the next Larry Csonka at the goal line vrs the Jets). I don't know enough about Kessler to comment. I thought Austin Davis had the time management skills of Rain Man. He was operating the offense on "10 minutes to Wopner" time when we had only 30 seconds to go in the half or game. I liked his arm and reading how studious he was about the game but I think we collided with reasons why he was unemployed.

[Flugel]

Ok good. Check again with mom if accordion was ever stolen by one of her dates. Good God you may need blood tested. A Lynch fan with a accordion back ground at this point is not good..Good Luck to you & don't move to Memphis

 

LMAO! God bless ya Gumby!

[Westside Steve]

Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3?

Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3?

Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3?

 

 

You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses.

Conversely why give RG3 the benefit of the doubt when no other quarterback gets it? The reason people, at least I, are leery of the guy is the Redskins overpaid to get him and it was a failure. The biggest reason for that had been his shitty attitude and for that reason it's a little bit harder to work up the sympathy. Just like you-know-who.

Any misgivings are his to dispel and he does that by playing well under the system he's asked to play. The reason I don't think we'll see that much running is that it heightens the risk of injury and previous injury has probably made that less of a factor.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

(plus I'm still not understanding the notion that Connor Shaw is the savior)

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

I've made peace with the fact that the Geek Squad did not value the top of this draft's QB's. Orion

*******************************************************

That's a false conclusion, I think. They didn't not value them - the simple fact is, they couldn't afford

to take one of them, with all the needs they had to fill as far as their restructuring, to a point, their roster.

 

One star qb, either one of the top two, is never worth the players they drafted with all those extra picks.

If all the Browns needed was the bigtime qb, of course they would have drafted the qb.

 

It's a team game, and they needed to rebuild the Browns into a team. With those picks they got the most

explosive wr in the draft, other wr's, well, the whole bunch of players who have the talent and character and

work ethic to fit into what the Browns are going to be - a competitive kick ass bunch of Browns who

will not be put into bad schemes and wrong assignments for their talents...etc, etc etc.

[Flugel]

(plus I'm still not understanding the notion that Connor Shaw is the savior)

 

WSS

 

Savior? If that's aimed at me Steve - I'll clarify where I'm coming from. I don't project him as a savior as much as I welcome/refuse to count out a QB that can sport a 25 TD to 1 INT ratio in his final year at SC in the SEC. Most of Spurrier's former QBs have been asked to read defenses at warped behind suspect numbers up front and pass pro schemes that put split second decisions on center stage in a conference often praised for team speed on defense. He's the ONLY QB at SC that put up an incredible ratio like that while his team went 10-2.

 

What other things do I like? He seemed like he knew our offense a lot better than Manziel did when they were both rookies. Not only that, the most underrated intangible he showed me was an ability to get out of the pocket and run for a first down if that was handed to him.

 

The last time we traded a HOF WR like Paul Warfield so we could draft a football messiah at the 3rd pick overall - we ended up with Mike Phipps. Long story short, it's a damn good thing nobody expected Brian Sipe to be anybody's football savior prior to seeing him become the only League MVP I've witnessed at our QB since color television began.

 

I don't have a big enough body of work to tell me Shaw = Sipe. That said, I kind of liked his starting point in coherence with what separated him from all the other QBs Spurrier had at SC. One time Kurt Warner was asked HOW could Arena Football possibly prepare you for the NFL? He said it trained him to understand the importance of getting rid of the ball quickly especially when numbers up front weren't always favorable. That's what I liked about Shaw's training at SC in an offense that treats its QBs like Hollywood stunt men. The difference between him and a Danny Weurffel is he had the physical and mental ability to escape the pocket on time. That showed up in some of his playing time in the preseason and in the regular season short window he got. Last but not least, I think he's got plenty of time to improve his arm strength the way Andy Dalton has since he entered the NFL.

[Tour2ma]

So you think that Sashi had spoken to the Rams and knew that they were taking Goff. ('cuz we'd already traded out of #2 prior to draft day)

It makes sense because we traded out of #2 after the Rams traded up to #1.

 

Sashi knew... He said so in an interview.

 

Steve, he's Black Tarkenton. It doesn't matter what offense he plays in, He is a run first QB.

 

Why does this horse-shit statement live on? Thought it was killed when we drafted JM...

 

Sir Francis was not a "running QB". He was a scrambling QB. He ran to buy time to throw as he played behind some of the worst OLs in the league. (Expansion Vikings and rebuilding NYGs)

 

I've made peace with the fact that the Geek Squad did not value the top of this draft's QB's. Orion

*******************************************************

That's a false conclusion, I think. They didn't not value them - the simple fact is, they couldn't afford

to take one of them, with all the needs they had to fill as far as their restructuring, to a point, their roster.

 

Don't not not not look now... but that's the definition of a "value" analysis.

[Westside Steve]

Gee whiz Tommy!

Sure, I guess it's possible that your third-string UFA winds up being the MVP of the league.

I just mentioned it since you were the most recent commenter on the kid Kama even though he gets a good deal of airtime around here.

And it doesn't hurt to Hope. We can also hope that RG3 is better and less of an asshole than before and the Josh McCown finally breaks through.

WSS

[One Post]

Conversely why give RG3 the benefit of the doubt when no other quarterback gets it? The reason people, at least I, are leery of the guy is the Redskins overpaid to get him and it was a failure. The biggest reason for that had been his shitty attitude and for that reason it's a little bit harder to work up the sympathy. Just like you-know-who.

Any misgivings are his to dispel and he does that by playing well under the system he's asked to play. The reason I don't think we'll see that much running is that it heightens the risk of injury and previous injury has probably made that less of a factor.

WSS

No other qb gets it? Humm..

 

How about McCown.

 

 

I'm also going to add Goff and Wentz to the list before it happens because you know they're too young, don't know the systems because they're rookies and that will be ok. Either two could crap on the field this season and it would be just hunky dory.

 

Now if RG3 were already on the roster and Hue came in and signed McCown I'd be worried.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

1-15 or 0-16, bank it.

[Flugel]

Gee whiz Tommy!

Sure, I guess it's possible that your third-string UFA winds up being the MVP of the league.

I just mentioned it since you were the most recent commenter on the kid Kama even though he gets a good deal of airtime around here.

And it doesn't hurt to Hope. We can also hope that RG3 is better and less of an asshole than before and the Josh McCown finally breaks through.

WSS

 

Let's put this back into context. I only wrote about why I feel Shaw has a future here.

 

It's okay if you don't like Connor Shaw. I'm sure you won't be the only one that feels that way.

[One Post]

1-15 or 0-16, bank it.

Make a bet?

[gumby73]

<<Sir Francis was not a "running QB". He was a scrambling QB. He ran to buy time to throw as he played behind some of the worst OLs in the league. (Expansion Vikings and rebuilding NYGs)>>

 

Fran Tarkenton was a horse cock. Tarkenton could have had a cherry-picker for his offensive line and he would have abandoned the pocket and ran around like a shitting ostrich. Like RG3, Like Cam Newton, Like Queerdell Stewart............... he held on to the fucking ball too long and ran around with his nutsack hanging out to save his ass. NO DBs can cover recievers when the asshole QB is fucking every other pass play up.

 

Fran Tarkenton was shit. RG3 and Cam Newton are shit.

 

Ben Roethlisberger.................. the best that ever lived about using his feet, size, power and balance, to buy more time......Big Ben is the classic pass first, run to buy time QB. Sir Francis? Yeah, maybe at an underground BDSM party for queers he is "Sir". As a QB, he sucked big dick.

Am guessing here that Roger Staubach & Troy Aikman were somehow in the classic. The Shitting White Ostrich & his 7 White Dwarfs?

[Westside Steve]

 

Let's put this back into context. I only wrote about why I feel Shaw has a future here.

 

It's okay if you don't like Connor Shaw. I'm sure you won't be the only one that feels that way.

Oh I have absolutely nothing against the kid.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

No other qb gets it? Humm..

 

How about McCown.

 

 

I'm also going to add Goff and Wentz to the list before it happens because you know they're too young, don't know the systems because they're rookies and that will be ok. Either two could crap on the field this season and it would be just hunky dory.

 

Now if RG3 were already on the roster and Hue came in and signed McCown I'd be worried.

How does Josh McCown get the benefit of the doubt? He gets shit on here all the time. Of course he's a hard guy to hate because he's always had a great attitude and worked hard unlike your buddy RG3.

Or in all honesty my buddy Johnny.

 

By the way I don't give a rat's ass about Goff or Wentz but if they played here yes I would probably cut them some slack the first year or two.

They don't play here though and I hope they suck just so I don't have to listen to people crying and whining about not drafting them.

WSS

[One Post]

How does Josh McCown get the benefit of the doubt? He gets shit on here all the time. Of course he's a hard guy to hate because he's always had a great attitude and worked hard unlike your buddy RG3.

Or in all honesty my buddy Johnny.

By the way I don't give a rat's ass about Goff or Wentz but if they played here yes I would probably cut them some slack the first year or two.

They don't play here though and I hope they suck just so I don't have to listen to people crying and whining about not drafting them.

WSS

Time will tell Steve. Hide and watch.

[gumby73]

 

Let's put this back into context. I only wrote about why I feel Shaw has a future here.

 

It's okay if you don't like Connor Shaw. I'm sure you won't be the only one that feels that way.

2014--Season finale against Ravens finished game despite dislocated finger & bruised kidney..2015--Has reconstruction surgery on broken Thumb on throwing hand in preseason game with Skins. 2016--Could be the return of Drago Jr. returns.. Got to root for this guy. Later Austin 'Powers' Davis Return

[Tour2ma]

... NO DBs can cover recievers when the asshole QB is fucking every other pass play up.

 

Awesome rebuttal as usual... highlighted by the above gem.

[Westside Steve]

Ken Dorsey's only 35!

 

WSS

[Flugel]

Flugs.............. Connor Shaw is the guy who should be getting all the snaps. He have no idea what his potential is............ it is already a given that RG3 and McCown will never in their lives be winners. Your comments on Shaw IMHO are not aggressive enough. If I am the king, Shaw is out front and the job woudl be his to lose. Why fuck around with the two dildos rated ahead of him? They have no fucking upside.

 

Idiotic FO.

 

Apparently someone saw a similar style offense used for RG3 that was once used for Joe Theisman in Washington. Out of pocket passing for a 6' Heisman Trophy Winner that rarely ever spent time in a cup protection pass scheme. Theisman began in Canada while RG3 was a Rookie of the Year.

 

Sometimes really good QBs like Steve Young get sentenced to the wrong offense, coaching staff and surrounding talent in Tampa. Doug Williams also had that issue before Joe Gibbs said this QB doesn't need to be rewired - he just needs a compatible system. Same thing happened to Steve Young. And all the teams more worried about Joe Montana's arm strength coming out of ND got to see what all that turned into in the perfect system.

 

I think with RG3 it's more a case the offense changed from what he was most compatible with to what he is least compatible with more than RG3 just waking up a crummy football player 1 day. I've been wrong before though...

[jiggins7919]

Some posters have made valid points about previous QB's that failed to succeed under other coaches and systems, but then found success. How about Rich Gannon? That guy didn't enjoy a ton of success until he went to the Raiders, and then he was all world and even won the MVP (and SHOULD have gone to the Superbowl). Like somebody said, take a look at Steve Young, and a host of other players that needed a fresh start to really shine.

 

Will that happen to RG III? I'd say the odds are against it, but it's worth mentioning previous players who found success in the middle parts or later stages of their careers.

[Tour2ma]

I'm still still to wrap my head around, "Connor Shaw should be our starter."

[Browns1216]

Connor Shaw reminds me a lot of Colt McCoy; both are very hard workers who are willing to put the team on their backs, but neither will wow you with their arm strength. I was impressed with Connor Shaw in college and I liked what I saw of him in the Ravens game. I think he's a way better option than Austin Davis but I think our FO is sold on RG3 for now, it's RG3's job to lose.

 

I like McCown, but I have a feeling he will be used as trade bait once the season starts. I don't see this FO hanging on to an aging veteran, even though I think McCown is the better leader and accomplished a lot last year considering what he had to work with.

[gumby73]

How about Rich Gannon?

To all those that may have a Rich Gannon poster on their walls . McCown maybe the closest thing to the guy but never played with any real talent. Also Josh is missing the mental part of Gannon's game. Play with passion & gutsy mentality. But be smart with it too.. EDIT--While we our speaking QB's, Rumors have it Wentz may go Red shirt year 1.Might this be the best Kessler plan? I see it in Philly as a plan to keep Philly fans week 1 with us from booing whiny ass Bradford off the field. But how does Redshirt Kessler work for us? Just throwing it out their

[Westside Steve]

You can't red shirt a player in the pros, that's college where you can weasel out an extra year of eligibility. I think once you sign you're on the clock whether you play or not.

 

WSS

[gumby73]

You can't red shirt a player in the pros, that's college where you can weasel out an extra year of eligibility. I think once you sign you're on the clock whether you play or not.

 

WSS

Correct WSS. Philly using red shirt in wrong terms. In real words, Going to bury Wentz on 53 man roster but make him inactive each week. But can still practice full season & Camp with preseason games. Avoids Wavier Wire to PS. We shall see how Hue values his guy Kessler. Only QB of 5 with PS eligibility.

[jiggins7919]

I'm very interested to see how Kessler performs in training camp, and of course, in the preseason. Something tells me he's a very hard worker, and his accuracy isn't something that can be taught. What we don't know is how he'll handle pressure, pick up the offense, and respond after he takes some real NFL hits. Can he read the defenses and know where to go with the ball? Can he quickly learn the intricacies of the offensive language? And we know that he doesn't have an elite arm, but is it strong enough to get the job done?

 

It's safe to say I'm pretty eager to see just what our offense looks like. Obviously, coaches don't show TOO much in preseason, but we'll get a taste. For the most part, NFL preseason games are a complete waste of time, but there are moments that are worth evaluating. We'll get to see if RG III's footwork looks better, if he looks comfortable with the offense, if he has "happy feet", and how his throws look. Same goes for McCown. I expect him to look better, but HOW much better will he look? (of course, I could be wrong too). As the preseason progresses, I could see RG III move the ball down the field a little bit, but I definitely foresee him struggling in the red zone. The red zone is what separates decent QB's from good ones. I fully expect to see McCown score more TD's in the preseason than anybody.

[Tour2ma]

We will certainly get a sense of our run game... on both sides of the ball.

 

 

And I took the "red shirt" comment how it was meant to be taken... "not playing".

[Flugel]

Flugs.............. Connor Shaw is the guy who should be getting all the snaps.

Idiotic FO.

 

I know Casey Casem isn't around any more so I'll give Connor's Shaws a shout out from ya Ghoolie. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtubevideoof+missyoubythelaw&view=detail&mid=2BB0F69F7653DA1645AB2BB0F69F7653DA1645AB&FORM=VIRE