djdawg2010 Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 While I haven't smoked the chron in a long time (mainly because I'm useless once I do) for the most part I agree. I have an immediate family member that is an opiate/heroin addict and its absolutely devastating, to say the least. For me, if I smoke it I get a nice hum, but can function quite well. However; when it's mixed with few drinks is when I get quite sluggish. At any rate, I hope your family member finds it within themself to shake off that horrible addiction. I sum it up to the fact that doctors started handing out pain pills like candy, for every little ache and pain, which is why it has made a huge comeback. When I was in high school heroin was considered such a 60s or 70s drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml1138 Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Shouldn't even receive a ticket for going 70 in a 65. And if you did, a judge should throw that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 We don't know this to be true, we just assume that "second hand" levels would be small. Based on how the THC molecules work in the human body, I doubt that second hand smoke would have any effect, or even be able to be tested. There is no base level and there is no testing to show the effect or even the ability to detect it.so why don't you educate us on just what those little THc molecules do within the body. Its OK, you can use big words, I'm a science guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdawg2010 Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 so why don't you educate us on just what those little THc molecules do within the body. Its OK, you can use big words, I'm a science guy. I can tell you this. While the THC molecule sticks to the fat cells in your body and can be found in your system for up to a month via a urine test, as they aren't as quickly soluable as other substances, the actual intoxicating effects of cannabis wear off in 1-3 hours on average. Sure depending on the strain of cannabis it could be longer. But if someone endulged 3 days ago, just because THC showed up in their test, it doesn't mean that person is under the influence or intoxicated. It's why I think drug tests are flawed! It's always the "stoners" that get caught, and yet you can drink yourself into a stupor on Friday, or blow lines on a Friday ( much more dangerous option) and pass a drug test on Tuesday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 I'll just wait for his response. But you're already on the right track that debunks his misinformed claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Lets get this correct. Josh Gordon was placed in Stage 2 before he ever set foot in the NFL. You can deem whether that's fair or not. But lets stop with the hyperbolic falsehoods. He did not fail NFL drug testing 5 times. Just recently he was flagged for a failed drug test and then grabbed a DUI after he was flagged. I'm also aware of his stage 2 status which makes it even worse. He was forced to the supplemental and then comes in to the league still messing up. You all should be looking at this suspension ad a way for him to get right. What's stopping him from getting flagged again otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdawg2010 Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Just recently he was flagged for a failed drug test and then grabbed a DUI after he was flagged. I'm also aware of his stage 2 status which makes it even worse. He was forced to the supplemental and then comes in to the league still messing up. You all should be looking at this suspension ad a way for him to get right. What's stopping him from getting flagged again otherwise. I think the NFL's rules regarding cannabis, and our laws against cannabis are ridiculous, and quite frankly it looks as if the tide is turning as more and more Americans are OK with ending prohibition. I look at it like this. It would be one thing if he took performance enhancing drugs such as steroids, because that is cheating. Suspend his ass, because there is no place for cheating! The DUI is a problem of course, because is actions could have killed someone! Not to mention, when you make that much money for Christ sakes call a cab, or a limo! On the other hand if these players want to smoke a little weed in the privacy of their own home, and aren't harming anyone in the process, who the fuck cares? It's a good bet a large segment of NFL players partake anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaak Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Just recently he was flagged for a failed drug test and then grabbed a DUI after he was flagged. I'm also aware of his stage 2 status which makes it even worse. He was forced to the supplemental and then comes in to the league still messing up. You all should be looking at this suspension ad a way for him to get right. What's stopping him from getting flagged again otherwise. I was very encouraged by him getting a job at a local car dealership (he could have gone back "home" where all his enablers are). Being local in Cleveland, he can still talk to and get together with his teammates. They are not restricted from hanging out with him as a friend. And he checked himself into rehab so that he could get needed advice on how to deal with his life and keep positive people around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 I think the NFL's rules regarding cannabis, and our laws against cannabis are ridiculous, and quite frankly it looks as if the tide is turning as more and more Americans are OK with ending prohibition. I look at it like this. It would be one thing if he took performance enhancing drugs such as steroids, because that is cheating. Suspend his ass, because there is no place for cheating! The DUI is a problem of course, because is actions could have killed someone! Not to mention, when you make that much money for Christ sakes call a cab, or a limo! On the other hand if these players want to smoke a little weed in the privacy of their own home, and aren't harming anyone in the process, who the fuck cares? It's a good bet a large segment of NFL players partake anyway. I have zero issues with cannabis. I'm a proponent of its legalization for rec and medicinal. In josh Gordon's case and its where everyone seems to want to skim over is whether he was taking a PED or smoking weed he was still regularly breaking the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 But if he comes back, who will sell me a car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Okay..... I'd be happy to. The reason the THC molecules effect you is because they are 1. heated and 2. they bond with fat molecules in your body. This is why you can eat a bunch of weed and get nothing, but if you smoke it (heating the THC and fat molecules together) or make butter with it, you get high. So, once it has been smoked and exhaled and then drifts to the next guy, I doubt that there is any effect and I doubt if it could be detected in a test. Good enough? no...its not. I used to clip in college frequently for about a year, and had to stop after a few hours on more than one occasion because I, and another, were blasted from eating it raw. First thing first kids....do not eat pot raw!! The crystals that grow on the plant are sharp and cut the esophagus which leads to a severely sore throat at best. Its a defense mechanism of the plant so animals won't eat it. But in my case, good sticky grass requires some contact with the mouth when clipping, so I was pretty wrecked. To the argument at hand, the factors cited do enhance the bodies absorption of just about any drug. But it doesn't address the metabolizing of it at all, due to my little personal rant. So, since heat is not a requirement for metabolizing THC, and his recitation of common knowledge fat absorption properties (without describing why its important, in this case, to the counter argument), I'm still waiting for the tie in to second hand smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Okay..... I'd be happy to. The reason the THC molecules effect you is because they are 1. heated and 2. they bond with fat molecules in your body. This is why you can eat a bunch of weed and get nothing, but if you smoke it (heating the THC and fat molecules together) or make butter with it, you get high. So, once it has been smoked and exhaled and then drifts to the next guy, I doubt that there is any effect and I doubt if it could be detected in a test. Good enough? This is absolutely wrong in every way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Second hand smoke WILL get you high, there is no doubt about it. Ever heard of 'shot-gunning' a blunt? Have you ever blew the exhale out into someone else's mouth? Trust me, there is a contact high involved in second hand smoke. I guess it all just depends on how much is floating around in the air. Say there are three blunts being passed around and Gordon just takes it and passes it to the next guy or girl in the circle. The Blunts are burning and people are exhaling smoke, not all that weed smoke is disappearing into their lungs... it's still floating around and should there be enough of it you are going to get some in your system. Maybe these Myths that you can't catch a contact buzz or test positive for weed because of second hand smoke is the reason we are going through this in the first place. Maybe in other walks of life, like pretty much anywhere, the threshold of THC is high enough that you wont test positive for weed, but in the NFL the threshold is so low that, YES, it can happen and YES, it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Sorry, you are wrong.....do some research, talk to a chemist. I'm a licensed chemical dependency counselor and have been working in the field for nearly 10 years. I have written test questions for the international certification exam you would have to pass to become a professional in my field of work. I have supervised 30+ clinicians, and have been through 500+ hours of specialized training in chemical dependence, on top of my Master's degree. I have dedicated my life to understanding the ways substances work in the brain and body, as well as how addictions develop, and how to prevent addictions and treat people who have them... But I only know one thing for sure... YOU, my friend, are wrong... Maybe you should find a better chemist to talk to. Not just your crystal meth dealer. I wouldn't really trust his credentials... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 But if he comes back, who will sell me a car? Very under-appreciated post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 You got it....it's fact....just because you don't accept it doesn't mean shit to me. You may have gotten goofy by eating a bunch of good weed but had you "heated it" and merged it with fat rather than digestive fluids, you would have gotten waaaaaaaaaaaaay higher.....that's a fact Jack! And I still doubt that second hand smoke would make you high or be detected in a test. You probably got fucked up when you ate the worm too didn't you? Any chemists care to correct college boys personal perception? OK...I'll go slow. You stated heat is necessary to metabolize THC. I simply proved it wrong with an anecdote.... But can prove the same other. You, got snarky and failed to prove the claim. Then you mention fat cell retention and never elaborated on what that means relative to second hand smoke. So, as a chemist for 2 years in college, employed in the chem lab doing EDTA decay testing on stomach enzymes, I can say that what you presented up to this point is no basis, scientifically or logically, to make the claim you stand by. I'll help you a bit though. The heat requirement is merely a mode of chemical transformation to a vapor. It is not a requirement for THC to act on the brain. This is an important scientific distinction, genius. The fat cell absorption actually work against your argument in that it builds up fast, particularly for regular smokers. Low body fat and fast metabolism help clear the body faster. This is the exact reason the Olympic committee, military, faa, etc have a much higher fail threshold than that of the nfl 15 ng/ml....15 is too low to be a reliable number, both due to variances in people as well as variances in testing. This # was agreed upon in 06, and was left as a side issue to getting the CBA in place for the season. So......you want more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Hence the name Douche Nozzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Hence the name Douche Nozzle. Well played! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 So I did a littler homework and to me it seems as though the heat has much more of a function than simply vaporizing per Choco's comment. I could be wrong but I see the following as the purpose: I would assume first we are generally talking about strains that have been bred to maximize the end goal of high THC content. In those strains the raw weed contains high levels of THCA. THCA is THC with a carboxyl group attached. THCA has limited to no psychoactive properties. When you heat the weed (flame,vaporizer, oven etc) the carboxyl is removed leaving pure THC. This process is called decarboxylation. As I understand it there are a quite a few other cannabinoids with carboxyl groups attached that also convert to THC and / or an active version of their selves during the heating process. Some people argue that proper curing is sufficient for the decarboxylation process but I cannot find any actual data to support that. At the very least it is very safe to assume that heating increases the potency dramatically. Someone earlier was talking about fats and I think their point was poorly presented and subsequently misunderstood. The point had nothing to do with body fat. THC and the other cannabinoids are hydrophobic oils. Hydrophobic oils are not water soluble but are soluble in alcohol and fats. By dissolving in alcohol , fats or other oils the bioavailability via oral delivery is greatly enhanced. This is why butters and tinctures are so popular. Like I said, this was just some quick homework. If it is incorrect post data / studies to support your argument. Perhaps you can find a study that indicates a high presences of THC rather than THCA in the raw weed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 I have never once got high from second hand smoke and Ive been smoking pot since I was 15 years old.. Second hand smoke is a joke LOL.. puhleeze.. I'm not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I have never once got high from second hand smoke and Ive been smoking pot since I was 15 years old.. Second hand smoke is a joke LOL.. puhleeze.. I'm not buying it. LOL I can't say for sure but I have to think it would be pretty hard. I no longer smoke but I did heavily for about 10 years, the reason I cannot say for sure is every time I was around it being smoked I smoked lol so cant comment on second hand for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Here's a couple organizations that have MUCH higher thresholds for marijuana. : the U.S. military. MLB. The Olympic committee. The NFL knows their policy is draconian and ridiculous. That's why. Douche Nozzle and Vagitron: get Gordons name out of your mouth and fuck away off back to steelers fever. Why you continue to hang around here not only during steelers week but all fucking year long including the off season is puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Really mine was the Octorber 1972 game against the Chiefs. It was my first pro football game. My uncle from KC was in town and took us to the game. I got to see my hero at the time Leroy Kelly play. We got our ass kicked I think but it was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_0515 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Another Jets fan here. I've been on this forum before, and was always welcomed well. Thank you for that. A few things regarding Gordon's case: 1. The test threshold is extremely low, and although an argument can be made that "why is he exposed to marijuana in the first place", it is unfair that a teacher, soldier and police officer can have higher levels and still not test "positive". How does that make any sense? 2. How can the NFL justify punishing one player for being 1 ng/ml over the previous threshold (15 ng/ml), but then someone who has 48 ng/ml gets no punishment under the newly proposed rule? 3. I'm not saying players shouldn't break the law, but Gordon isn't punching women in the face. The DUI is concerning, and he needs to get his life in order - let alone his NFL career. It seems he's on his way with an honest job. Getting his life in order is more important than anything else, but he can't do it alone. Hopefully this entire situation is a wake up call for good. I always liked the Browns. There have been times where I went out of my way as a Jets fan to watch. Gordon made the Browns extremely fun to watch, as he's easily one of the most entertaining players in the NFL via his play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Looks like the wait continues : Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · 3m Per source, the NFL player reps will not vote on a new drug policy tonight. Ugh : Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · 27s Source says there were issues with the proposal that the NFL put in front of the players tonight, to the point where it wasn't worth voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 thenew23....I have a riddle for you......If I counsel people on the damages of alcohol abuse, does that make me a brewmeister? http://www.hightimes.com/read/cannabis-kitchen And as far as second hand smoke, once most of the THC has been absorbed by the first hand smoker, and there is no heat left in the smoke by the time the second smoker gets it, I doubt there would be much if any THC absorbed into the second hand smoker. Wow. First, you try to insult my intelligence with some ignorant analogy. Second, you incorrectly cite an article from "high times." Great reference by the way... What a joke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 We don't know this to be true, we just assume that "second hand" levels would be small. Based on how the THC molecules work in the human body, I doubt that second hand smoke would have any effect, or even be able to be tested. There is no base level and there is no testing to show the effect or even the ability to detect it. We? You and the mouse in your pocket? Regardless, if you doubt it, then I must be wrong... brilliant argument. Let me make sure I follow you... Smoked marijuana contains THC, but the trail of smoke from the lit end of a doobie doesn't... Ditto for the inhaled smoke that did not contact the lung walls or other bronchial surfaces... THC is different different from nicotine which is exhaled by smokers.... even smokers of e-cigs... The same compound9s) tested for in direct smoke, cannot be tested for in indirect smoke... ... because it would not "have any effect"... ... because they test for "effect"... ... and there's no "base level"... ... or testing to "show the effect"... ... "or even the ability to detect it." Two questions... Did the above sum up your position? Were you high when you wrote it? =================================================== "Will Second Hand Smoke Show up in Drug Test? It is very unlikely that second hand smoke will make you fail a drug test. However, it can leave traces of the active chemical in the marijuana, tetrahydracannabinol, or THC for short. This amount of THC is not likely to alert most drug tests. In addition, most drug tests are highly sophisticated, and can avoid those false positives that might come from second hand smoke inhalation. However, you can avoid the chance of it showing up at all by avoiding that second hand smoke as much as you can. Stay out of smoke-filled cars or unventilated rooms. If you are breathing in the smoke in an enclosed space, your levels might go high enough that a drug test would detect them. If you are in a room that is hazy from the smoke and you stay there for several hours, you could easily breathe in enough smoke to not only make you high, but enough that it will show up on a drug test – even if you never took a puff yourself. It’s a different story with the drug test on hair. In a hair drug test, second hand smoke can and usually will be detected. A positive hair tests typically requires a follow-up tests, during which the hair sample is washed before testing. This will remove any residue on the hair from the second hand smoke and test only for metabolites, not for the THC itself. If there are no metabolites in the hair, and the water used to wash the hair tests positive, then it is assumed you were in a room with second hand smoke, and you didn’t smoke the marijuana yourself." http://www.newhealthguide.org/Will-Second-Hand-Smoke-Show-Up-In-Drug-Test.html "Second-hand marijuana smoke — buzz producing, or not — can leave traces of the chemical tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in your urine for a day or so after breathing the smoke. However, the amount is usually not enough to make you test positive. Most drug tests have intentionally high standards to avoid false positive results due to incidental ingestion of second-hand smoke." http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/second-hand-marijuana-smoke-and-drug-tests =================================================================== But as we know NFL standards are not intentionally "high"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Okay..... I'd be happy to. The reason the THC molecules effect you is because they are 1. heated and 2. they bond with fat molecules in your body. This is why you can eat a bunch of weed and get nothing, but if you smoke it (heating the THC and fat molecules together) or make butter with it, you get high. So, once it has been smoked and exhaled and then drifts to the next guy, I doubt that there is any effect and I doubt if it could be detected in a test. Good enough? No... there are multi-million dollar bakery companies in Colorado now that beg to differ. The vast majority of indulgence issues that have occurred in Colorado have been attributable to ingested cannabis/ THC because it is slower acting than smoked. It still gets in the system, but the impatient do not give it sufficient time. But again if you doubt it... I have zero issues with cannabis. I'm a proponent of its legalization for rec and medicinal. In josh Gordon's case and its where everyone seems to want to skim over is whether he was taking a PED or smoking weed he was still regularly breaking the rules. Over 70 negative tests since the preceding positve say you are full of shit... and so do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Another Jets fan here. Man, you'd think we were playing these guys this week... Welcome... Wow. First, you try to insult my intelligence with some ignorant analogy. Second, you incorrectly cite an article from "high times." Great reference by the way... What a joke... ikr... We supply scientific knowledge, personal experience, internet references, and Professional expertise, when all we really needed to do is say, "I doubt it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypicalBrowns Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Okay..... I'd be happy to. The reason the THC molecules effect you is because they are 1. heated and 2. they bond with fat molecules in your body. This is why you can eat a bunch of weed and get nothing, but if you smoke it (heating the THC and fat molecules together) or make butter with it, you get high. So, once it has been smoked and exhaled and then drifts to the next guy, I doubt that there is any effect and I doubt if it could be detected in a test. Good enough? You are fucking stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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