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College Starter
Picture of The Hammer
Posted
http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/04/tribe_closer_says_he_had_nothi.html
quote:
Joe Borowski doesn't know what's wrong. One day he feels like he can throw the ball through a brick wall.

"The next day, I feel like I'm throwing through water," said Borowski.

Monday night, Borowski should have come to the mound in the ninth inning at Progressive Field wearing scuba gear. Boston, quick to recognize a theme, dunked the Indians closer, turning his 4-3 lead into a 6-4 defeat as Manny Ramirez hit a two-run, two-out homer into the left-field bleachers.

Borowski met with Tribe manager Eric Wedge, General Manager Mark Shapiro and the team's medical staff after the game to discuss the condition of his right arm and shoulder.

"I hope we can pinpoint something," said Borowski. "Right now, it's driving me crazy. I'm grasping at straws. Maybe it's something. Maybe it's nothing."

He could undergo tests today.

Borowski, who led the American League with 45 saves last year, started the ninth with what appeared to be a slo-pitch softball offering to Julio Lugo. The Boston shortstop yanked the next pitch down the left-field line for a double that broke an 0-for-16 slump.

After Coco Crisp bunted Lugo to third, Dustin Pedroia tied the game with a sacrifice fly to left. David Ortiz sent a bloop single to left with David Dellucci playing near the warning track to prevent anything from being hit over his head.

Then came Ramirez. He sent Borowski's first pitch into the left-field bleachers for the eventual game-winner. It was the 493rd homer of his career, tying him with Lou Gehrig and Fred McGriff for 24th on the all-time homer list.

"I had nothing," said Borowski. "I was stuck in one gear."

Ramirez seemed stunned by the pitch Borowski threw him.

"It seemed like a fastball," he said. "It was something like 80 mph. Maybe it was change-up. It was right there."

Ramirez has hit 132 homers as a Red Sox and an Indian at what is now known as Progressive Field. It was his 16th homer against the Indians since leaving Cleveland as a free agent after 2000.

It was Borowski's second straight blown save. On April 7, he gave up a game-winning grand slam to Torii Hunter at Angel Stadium of Anaheim to erase a 4-2 Tribe lead.

Wedge said he wouldn't make any decisions on Borowski's status until meeting with him. He has options if Borowski has to go on the disabled list or gets replaced as closer. Rafael Betancourt, Masa Kobayashi, Jensen Lewis, Rafael Perez and Jorge Julio are possibilities.

The win went to Mike Timlin (1-1), who pitched a scoreless eighth. Jonathan Papelbon pitched a 1-2-3 ninth for his fifth save.

Borowski (0-2) has allowed eight runs on seven hits in four innings. He's 2-for-4 in save situations.

Kevin Youkilis kicked the Boston comeback into gear with a leadoff homer against Betancourt in the eighth to make it 4-3. Betancourt relieved Jake Westbrook in the seventh with two out and two on. He ended the inning by striking out Ortiz and Ramirez.

Ortiz and Ramirez entered the game 0-for-11 against Betancourt.

"You have to be very aggressive against those two hitters," said Betancourt. "I found that out in the postseason last year."

The homer has hurt Betancourt in April. He's already allowed two in seven innings. He allowed three in 79 1/3 innings last year.

"I don't feel I did my job tonight because we lost," he said.

The Indians built a 4-1 lead against left-hander Jon Lester in the fourth and fifth innings.

After Asdrubal Cabrera walked and Travis Hafner singled to start the fourth, Victor Martinez singled to make it 1-1. After Jhonny Peralta struck out for the first of three times, Ryan Garko came back from a 1-2 hole to single to left for a 2-1 lead.

Casey Blake and Grady Sizemore started the fifth with walks. Cabrera advanced the runners with his second sacrifice bunt of the game. Hafner delivered them with a single into center for a 4-1 lead. It gave Hafner four RBI in the past two games.

Westbrook carried the 4-1 lead into the seventh, but faded.

He walked Sean Casey to start the inning. After Lugo forced Casey at second, Crisp reached on a bunt single. Pedroia singled off Westbrook's left hand to make it 4-2.

Boston took a 1-0 lead in the first on a two-out double by Youkilis.

Westbrook allowed two runs, one earned in 6 1/3 innings. He struck out five, walked three and allowed seven hits.
 
Posts: 62 | Location: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mon March 12 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
College Starter
Picture of The Hammer
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Needless to say this was a tough loss to stomach. After what happened last postseason, the last team I want to lose a heartbreaker to is the f'n Red Sox.

Maybe I am jumping the gun, but if there isn't anything wrong with Borowski, it is time to move in a different direction. This guy has the mentality to be a closer, the problem is he doesn't have the stuff to get guys out.

The pitch that Manny hit out was up in the strike zone, and almost served to him on a silver platter.

We have a lot of talent in our bullpen, and I think that it wouldn't hurt to try out something new for a while.
 
Posts: 62 | Location: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mon March 12 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
Picture of Beanpot
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quote:
Needless to say this was a tough loss to stomach. After what happened last postseason, the last team I want to lose a heartbreaker to is the f'n Red Sox.


Yeah, that's one of the worst feelings I've had after a regular season loss. The Lugo "double" was painful and watching Manny raise his arm after passing first was stomach churning.

Even worse than that was watching the Boston fans celebrate in our building. Disgusting. And I like the Red Sox, kinda. Never when they're playing the Tribe of course, but they're the team I most like to watch when the Tribe isn't playing. Their fans, on the other hand, can go suck it.

Looking at the bright side, this hopefully leads to the shutting down of Borowski, at least as far as a closer goes. Better now than any later in the year. Also really enjoyed Shapiro's visit with the ESPN crew last night. Nothing too new or revealing, but it was cool to see "the board" and listen to him talk about his daily routine. I especially liked his answer to the question from Steve Phillips about stats v. scouts - that he wants the best of ALL information. It was really enjoyable listening to the man.

Better days ahead!

Beanpot
 
Posts: 2033 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: Fri September 12 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
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Indians' Borowski goes on DL with strained triceps
10 minutes ago


CLEVELAND (AP) — Indians closer Joe Borowski was placed on the 15-day disabled list Tuesday, a day after blowing a save and giving up a two-run homer in the ninth inning to Boston's Manny Ramirez in a 6-4 loss to the Red Sox.

The club said Borowski, who led the AL with 45 saves last season, has a strained triceps. He had been puzzled and frustrated by a significant loss in his velocity.

The club recalled right-hander Tom Mastny from Triple-A Buffalo.

With Borowski out, Indians manager Eric Wedge likely will turn to Rafael Betancourt as his new closer. Betancourt was one of baseball's top set-up men last season. He had three saves last season and has 12 career saves.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5imTwvkjlHmdL7sPSfjpV_BRgZ9YQD902E10G0

Beanpot
 
Posts: 2033 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: Fri September 12 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
College Starter
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It's time to see what someone else can do now. I'm not sure Betancourt is ready for the closer role, maybe one of the young guns will step in and run with it.
 
Posts: 62 | Location: San Diego, CA | Registered: Mon March 12 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Pro Bowl Player
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I know what's wrong with Borowski, he sucks, and should never have been given the closers role. Cut his ass or trade him, we can do better at closer than him.
 
Posts: 504 | Location: Fountain Valley,CA | Registered: Tue February 06 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
High School Baller
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After hearing last year that Joe Borowski was given the closers role all I could think was we got rid of Bob Wickman and this is what we decided to go with, hmmmm. He then led the league with 45 saves, all I could think was we dodged that bullet...then the Tribe picked up his option and I was floored...we have Betancourt and we have Tom Mastny a young pitcher who looked pretty good when he was given a tryout in the closers role. Now Borowski is showing his age and its not pretty...hopefully Wedge can find a "real" closer in the bullpen.
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: Sun July 08 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
NFL Special Teams player
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Wow.....Suffering through last night's 9th while trying to recover from a major case of Jet Lag was probably the only thing keeping me from firing the remote @80 plus through the big screen.

Borowski had nothing last night is an insult to guys like Dave McKay.

Looks like Betancourt moves into the closer role's and Lewis and Perez slide up a notch.

At least that looks like the plan.


Betancourt may be the closer of the staff for the near future but will he go 3 games in a row if he is needed tonight?

I don't see it for tonight game at least......May be Lewis tonight

But that would mean Byrd has found it

John
 
Posts: 189 | Registered: Wed October 18 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
First Day Draft Selection
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Not much to debate, really. Borowski is Brett Favre in a sport that has no room for Brett Favre. Led the league in saves and blown saves last year... and I'm not looking at any stats, but I think it's safe to say most of his saves came from 3-run leads in the 9th.


Betancourt seems like a pretty good option, I think everyone agrees he's the best overall pitcher in the pen. I'm still not sure he's closer material though. I still see him simply as a RHP even though he was great in the 8th inning role last year.

Kobayashi should get at least a couple tries since he was one of the best closers in Japan, but I think Lewis is the answer.

He's an extremely confident, smart pitcher which you need in the 9th inning. He can pitch well to both righties and lefties with good control and good strikeout numbers (10.43 K/9, 3.44 K/BB last season)

I guess my order of preference would be 1. Lewis 2. Betancourt 3. The Rest
 
Posts: 102 | Registered: Wed June 06 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
Picture of Beanpot
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quote:
should never have been given the closers role.


I'll disagree just a little bit here, Dana. If he comes in with a 2 or more run lead (as he did 39 times last year), I'm not going to lose my lunch too much. You know it's going to be eventful but, hey, at least it's not a one run lead or a tie game in the 8th. I'd much rather have him in that spot than in a higher leverage situation.

Of course, it doesn't matter when he enters the game if he's only bringing an 83 MPH fastball to the table. That's just a tick above what you see in freaking batting practice.

Beanpot
 
Posts: 2033 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: Fri September 12 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by jclong2003:
After hearing last year that Joe Borowski was given the closers role all I could think was we got rid of Bob Wickman and this is what we decided to go with, hmmmm. He then led the league with 45 saves, all I could think was we dodged that bullet...then the Tribe picked up his option and I was floored...we have Betancourt and we have Tom Mastny a young pitcher who looked pretty good when he was given a tryout in the closers role. Now Borowski is showing his age and its not pretty...hopefully Wedge can find a "real" closer in the bullpen.


That pretty much sums up my feelings too, jc.

Beanpot
 
Posts: 2033 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: Fri September 12 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by JGerlich71097:
Wow.....Suffering through last night's 9th while trying to recover from a major case of Jet Lag was probably the only thing keeping me from firing the remote @80 plus through the big screen.


Hey, hope you enjoyed your trip!

Good points about Raffy working 3 games in a row and counting on Byrd to allow for a save situation tonight.

Beanpot
 
Posts: 2033 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: Fri September 12 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by CIMO:
I guess my order of preference would be 1. Lewis 2. Betancourt 3. The Rest


That's my preference too, CIMO. Nothing against Betancourt, but I'd like to keep him in that 8th inning spot.

Beanpot
 
Posts: 2033 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: Fri September 12 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
NFL Special Teams player
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Can we add "Jorge Julio has nothing" to this thread also.



After a strong Byrd outing

Julio, couldn't locate his fastball anywhere close to the Bp station on the corner of 9th and Carnegie, let alone home plate

9 pitches 2 walks
 
Posts: 189 | Registered: Wed October 18 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by JGerlich71097:
Can we add "Jorge Julio has nothing" to this thread also.


Added.

I did get a kick out of Drennan talking about him earlier today. Said something about Julio saving 99 games in his career and thus being the perfect guy for the job.

No Bruce, no.

Beanpot
 
Posts: 2033 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: Fri September 12 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Pro Bowl Player
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quote:
Originally posted by Beanpot:
quote:
should never have been given the closers role.


I'll disagree just a little bit here, Dana. If he comes in with a 2 or more run lead (as he did 39 times last year), I'm not going to lose my lunch too much. You know it's going to be eventful but, hey, at least it's not a one run lead or a tie game in the 8th. I'd much rather have him in that spot than in a higher leverage situation.

Of course, it doesn't matter when he enters the game if he's only bringing an 83 MPH fastball to the table. That's just a tick above what you see in freaking batting practice.

Beanpot


I agree Todd, but I am tired of the Bob Wickman type of stopper here. I want someone to come in and shut the door, not give up hits and walks every outing they pitch. It's brutal to watch and not easy on my old heart.
 
Posts: 504 | Location: Fountain Valley,CA | Registered: Tue February 06 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
Picture of Beanpot
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quote:
Originally posted by SoCalBrownsFan:
I agree Todd, but I am tired of the Bob Wickman type of stopper here. I want someone to come in and shut the door, not give up hits and walks every outing they pitch. It's brutal to watch and not easy on my old heart.


Man, you and me both. The trouble with that is that it's usually foolish to trade for/sign such a guy and it's difficult to develop that kind of player.

I hope like mad we have one of those guys in our pen right now.

Beanpot
 
Posts: 2033 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: Fri September 12 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
First Day Draft Selection
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quote:

Even worse than that was watching the Boston fans celebrate in our building. Disgusting. And I like the Red Sox, kinda. Never when they're playing the Tribe of course, but they're the team I most like to watch when the Tribe isn't playing. Their fans, on the other hand, can go suck it.



I missed that the first time I read through....but I couldn't agree more. The Red Sox were a nice story in the Pedro/Nomar days. They reminded me of our late 90s Tribe in that the fans were truly passionate and dying for a title but couldn't get it. It only helped me like them when the Yankees and Marlins (my two most hated teams) were winning everything.

I didn't even really hate them for taking Manny (although my opinion on that has changed recently.....). But when they finally got their title in '04....I wish they just went away. The team and the fans have become so unbelievably arrogant that I can't even stand it. And of course now Boston has the most fair-weather fans of any team in any sport, and the fans who didn't care about the Sox until 2004 are even worse than the lifers.

Usually it's kind of fun when an opposing team's fan comes into your stadium. Talk a little trash back and forth and even if your team loses you can laugh with the other guy. Boston fans (who I assure you weren't anywhere to be seen until '04) just make me want to start a fight.


There should be some kind of rule. If you've never lived in New England....if you've never been to Fenway Park....and you're above the age of 10, you shouldn't be allowed to be a Red Sox fan.



sigh.....just another terrible loss. These days I think it would be easier to see Renteria beat us in the bottom of the 11th than it is to see the Red Sox embarrass us again.
 
Posts: 102 | Registered: Wed June 06 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
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They reminded me of our late 90s Tribe in that the fans were truly passionate and dying for a title but couldn't get it. It only helped me like them when the Yankees and Marlins (my two most hated teams) were winning everything...

...The team and the fans have become so unbelievably arrogant that I can't even stand it. And of course now Boston has the most fair-weather fans of any team in any sport, and the fans who didn't care about the Sox until 2004 are even worse than the lifers.


Man Cimo, couldn't have put it any better. I don't really have an issue with the team being arrogant - they've earned that right - but oh those fans. I haven't been to Fenway in a few years but it was just a wonderful place to watch baseball. Can't imagine how it would be now.

Beanpot
 
Posts: 2033 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: Fri September 12 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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