Thanks Tom
I gave up on Relogion a while back because I found way to many loop holes in the bible. Especially whne I found out most of the events are recycled Ancient Egypt and Greek myths/stories. I personally believe the bible has been watered down due to government interest.

I have no problem with someone offering to enlighten other on a different perspective so EJ pay them no mind. I still have faith in something that I cant explain. Maybe I just have a problem with over thinking but until scientist can say what happened to create the very first atom somethings going to always be out there that will make me wonder.

EJ feel free to PM Me

quote:

Originally posted by We need Tom Tupa:
Oh, and I seriously doubt there is anyone on Earth that really "couldnt be happier or more satisfied".

EDITED BECAUSE I DON'T CARE TO GET INTO THIS.

MZ

as I said I dont read much into Jesus and all that but there is a thing called peace of mind. Knowing that your doing what God craeted you for. You might not need that but for some a feeling of meaning.

Jehovah is his real name calling him God is like calling me man. Im not a witness but it does state Gods name in the Bible

God is referred to by a bunch of different names in the Bible...it's part of the fun

quote:

Originally posted by Louisville Slugger:
MZ

as I said I dont read much into Jesus and all that but there is a thing called peace of mind. Knowing that your doing what God craeted you for. You might not need that but for some a feeling of meaning.

Jehovah is his real name calling him God is like calling me man. Im not a witness but it does state Gods name in the Bible

I'm all for people being happy, even if they believe in something I don't. If it makes you happy and you're not hurting anyone, please be my guest do believe in whatever you want to believe in, do what you want to do, smoke what you want to smoke etc. This is how I truly feel.

U caught me I only read bits in pieces of the bible.

I called it taking biblical adventures while "taking the browns to the superbowl".

quote:

Originally posted by Legacy Fan:

quote:

Originally posted by Timugen:
As if you do have a true concept of who God and Christ are? And that's assuming they are actually real. The only "concepts" you may think you have are merely recitations of dogma that has been politically manipulated over a couple thousand years which was "originally" based on a bunch of stories only finally "recorded" several decades after Jesus Christ was actually living. How well do you remember details and quotes of what people said 40, 50, 60+ years ago? Throw into that mix the multitude of translations those stories have went through, and your concepts of God and Christ don't seem so solid. Again, that is assuming God and Christ are actually real.

Ahem.

Masada
A site extermely important in the history of the Jews & their religion. Certainly open for "tampering" as you suggest the Bible is/was.

The battle/standoff took place about 30 years after Jesus (66- 70ish CE) and the only written account of it was by a Jewish man Josephus Flavius (born Josephus ben Matityahu), who was alive at the time of the revolt/ battle(s) and became a Roman citizen and respected historian.

Right now, they are busy using archaeology, forensics, and other silly science "dogma" proving Josephus' account of it.

But then again, historians could have waited only 30 years after Jesus died to start telling the truth.

Ahem.

I fail to see how that proves the existence of "God," or that Christ was his son. Pointing out that archaeology and forensics bears forth that many of the cities and battles described in the bible existed/took place has nothing to do with the bulk of what's in there relevant to the existence of God and Christ being his son.

I'm sure there is plenty in the Qur'an, Torah, etc. that can validated with archaeology... so which collection of folk tales of the many is the "truth?"

quote:

Originally posted by Timugen:
Ahem.

I fail to see how that proves the existence of "God," or that Christ was his son. Pointing out that archaeology and forensics bears forth that many of the cities and battles described in the bible existed/took place has nothing to do with the bulk of what's in there relevant to the existence of God and Christ being his son.

I'm sure there is plenty in the Qur'an, Torah, etc. that can validated with archaeology... so which collection of folk tales of the many is the "truth?"

No it certainly does not prove "the existence of God." I wasn't trying to prove anything, except for exposing a flaw in your logic. The crux of your argument - or the reason you provided as to why you personally don't believe in God - (and I'm paraphrasing) was that "we can't possibly know, b/c:
1. No one remembers anything very well.
2. Facts get lost in translations of manuscripts.
3. In addition to translation errors, facts are purposely manipulated in order to play into some conspiratorial agenda."

I was just providing a documentation of a historical event written around the same time of your example, that has been proven to happen as it was written. That's all, brotha.

(That sound you're hearing is Dan Brown losing his erection.)

quote:

Originally posted by We need Tom Tupa:
just some hypersensitive people.

They usually are Tom.....

quote:

Originally posted by Legacy Fan:

1. No one remembers anything very well.
2. Facts get lost in translations of manuscripts.
3. In addition to translation errors, facts are purposely manipulated in order to play into some conspiratorial agenda."

1. They don't (ask a police detective.) And I specifically referred to details and quotes (which kinda play a big part in the whole Christianity deal.) Of course people can recollect cities, battles, significant people, etc.

2. As any linguist would tell you, things DO get not only lost but also sometimes twisted in translation. Remember that exercise in grade school with a line of kids where you whispered to the kid next to you a message that was passed on to you? That involved one language and about 15 minutes...I wonder how it would turn out with multiple languages and hundreds of years?

3. It's not a friggin' conspiracy theory. Do a little research on how what is and what ISN'T in your bible came to be there. It was a purely political process... and at no point did I claim anything close to a conspiracy.


Sorry Legacy, I'm not trying to get into a liturgical argument here... I merely chimed in on this thread when SEZ made such absolute statements about people's concepts of God and Christ.

quote:

Originally posted by Louisville Slugger:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/29/national/main...RSSattr=HOME_4056750

This has nothing to do with the browns or football but I think its worth reading.

Is Jesus alive????????

It is very much in peoples human nature people to attack things they fear, or do not understand. So that people respond with anger to my statements that this boy who tried to blow up the school does not understand the nature of Christ/God does not really surprise me. That people are angry... completely understood. I mean Christ who commited no crime was sentenced to death by the very people he came to save.


I find it amusing that some people do not think Jesus existed. Writings about Christ outnumber writings about napolean, the Greeks or the Romans by like 200 to 1..but no one seems to doubt that THEY existed. Several books and writings are eyewitness accounts. He is THE key figure in all of human history. He is also the most devisive in all history.

I am not preaching to anyone. I cannot change anyones mind. I am only saying we are all given a choice. I have spent years looking, questioning, searching, reading, to find myself where I am today.

I spent many years in opposition to God. Th devil had a very solid grip on my life. That's no joke. Fortunately for me God never turned His back on me but stayed with me and saw me through that.

For Desert Dawg. I do not believe God is real concerned about our comfort here on earth..Healing a body that will die anyway.. He is concerned spiritual healing. He is concerned our forming a real relationship with Him, and discovering the amazing love he has for each one of us. This life, this body...all temporary.. Eternity on the other hand ........

Some people look for historical holes in the Bible, The Bible was never intended to be a history book. There are historical things that are in there to be sure. The purpose of the book it to lead us to Christ, not teach us history.

There are 66 different books that make up the Bible. They are written by many different authors, at very different times in history. They all combine to make the Bible..But it is not "A" book in the classic sense. It's 66 books, letters, and writings designed to teach us, and lead us, and guide us.

Some of you get angry..That's cool. I did not start this post. Ask yourself, What your angry about? Did I do something to you? NO. Maybe there something inside yourself making you uncomfortable. I know the cure for that. I cannot prove anything to you. You all have to search that out for yourself. I can however tell you what He has done for me.

quote:

Originally posted by SEZ.EJ:
Maybe there something inside yourself making you uncomfortable. I know the cure for that.

Some people rely on religion as that cure, some rely on drugs, some rely on extra-marital sex, some rely on booze, some rely on pretending they are who they aren't, some rely on regular shrink visits, some rely on overeating...the list goes on ad nauseum.

The only issue I have with the super-religious is they believe God/religion is the ONLY way. This is what you're saying with the statement I quoted, and this just doesn't stand/make sense for everyone.

can we take this to the political forum....cause id love to add my 2 sense.

quote:

The only issue I have with the super-religious is they believe God/religion is the ONLY way. This is what you're saying with the statement I quoted, and this just doesn't stand/make sense for everyone.

This may ruffle the feathers a bit, and I'm not trying to offend anyone or start a fire fight, but I feel obligated to state a fact here.

There is only One Way, One Truth, One Life. Truth isn't relative. It's black or white. There's no grey area. You either have it in your life or you don't. Anything that isn't in line with the truth, by default, makes it a lie or makes it false.

Jesus doesn't get any more direct than when he says

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

-John 14:6

quote:

Originally posted by Crusso109:
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Thank you for illustrating so brilliantly why I roundly reject it.

quote:

Originally posted by mz:

quote:

Originally posted by Crusso109:
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Thank you for illustrating so brilliantly why I roundly reject it.

I didn't make it up. That's what he said. If you want to reject it, I can't stop you from that. All I can do is point to the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by Crusso109:
That's what he said.

Read my above response as it holds true again.

You can accept it or reject it, that's fine. It doesn't make it any less true.

True because some comic book slapped together 2,000 years ago says its true? Do they have a recording of Jesus saying that? No? Bs.