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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Yet another study came out today that said abstinence education doesn't work, and is even harmful in some cases. It doesn't cut teen pregnancy rates, rates of STDs, or lower the age at which sexual activity begins.
In fact this study, as well as other studies, have found that teens instead engage in even riskier sexual behavior (oral and anal) in order to remain "technically abstinent." It's not a huge expenditure, but it's not small -- about $1.3 billion over the last decade or so. Anyone still think this is a good idea? Or should we do away with this? |
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Pro Bowl Player |
I think there's an argument to be made that all types of school-based sex education don't work.
Take this article, for example:
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
“Much teenage sex has little do with sex itself, but is connected with searching for meaning, identity and belonging.”
If I may object, I do believe my main goal was to get my rocks off. If I wanted to belong to anything, it was Sue Hathaway's va-jay-jay. |
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Pro Bowl Player |
To borrow a line from Bill Maher when he discussed this a couple of years back, faced with idiotic abstinence pledges, teenagers did what adults do: they found loopholes. Two of them, to be exact. The abstinence-only movement is BS. It takes a premise that no kid is retarded enough not to know already (that not having sex is the only way to be 101% sure that you're not going to get an STD), marries it with really dishonest statistics ("Did you know that 85% of condoms fail? That's because the Jews make faulty ones so that Christian girls will have babies that they can eat during their Passover!"), and then slips in--no pun intended--a healthy dose of religion ("Besides, sex is better after a church-marriage. Going to a judge might be quicker, but you just feel like a whore afterwards."). Besides, the abstinence-only movement produces things like Purity Balls, which are really the most disturbing things to come out of a church that haven't been signed off on by Bernard Law. Money quotes: >>It's Friday night, and teenage girls are full of excitement as they primp for a dance at the local Holiday Inn. But for this group of girls in Sioux Falls, S.D., the night's dream date is not a teenage boy. "I'm going with my dad instead of a boyfriend," explains 15-year-old Angela Merkle. She and her two sisters are about to be escorted by their father to what's called a Purity Ball. The event shares all the hallmarks of a wedding: Vows are exchanged, a white cake is served and there is even a first dance. But at the beginning of the event instead of fathers giving away their daughters' hand, they're holding on tight. [...] "I'm going to stay pure until I'm married and I'm not going to date or kiss a boy," says 12-year-old Sarah Merkle. << Now, I'll skip the obvious problems raised by "I'm never going to date until I get married." I'll go right to the point--I don't care if you want your kids to be chaste (what parent with a daughter doesn't?), or wait 'till they get married, or whatever. Going through a mock-wedding with your daughter is about the sickest thing I've ever heard of; you might as well go ahead and molest her just to complete the portrait. Dennis Dear God, who would think that this crap is a good idea? |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
Of course (and it's been mentioned before) even though there's no harm done, save to moral restrictions, how many of us on either side of the libertine aisle, would be happy if a 12 year old sucked a mans dick for a Barbie or Power Ranger? Cool? Natural? WSS |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
What does that have to do with this?
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Uh the steady erosion of moral values. Belittling the outdated idea of chastity. Didn't think it was that opaque. Seems everytime society sets a moral boundary it becomes the challenge to cross that line. At one time abstinence was common moral teaching. Things change. I'd not expect a NABLA office would have prospered in 1950. WSS |
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Pro Bowl Player |
Disagree completely. There's a HUGE difference between disagreeing with absinence education and saying, "anything goes, kids." Plus, you're overlooking the history of sex--the very idea that twelve year-olds is a fairly recent development (and a good one). There's also a huge difference between telling your kids that they should wait until marriage and going through an absurd mock-wedding. The message of the Purity Balls seems to be, remember, girls, your vagina belongs to daddy until he hands you off. And why bring up NAMBLA? I seriously doubt that the Purity Balls are being held to prevent twelve year-olds from sleeping with their forty year-old boyfriends; they're about fifteen year-olds sleeping with other fifteen year-olds. Dennis |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
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Outta Work Pimp Ring of Honor  |
Are you serious? We had a study that cost money to determine this? Idiocy. Here is a clue to all conservatives - people have sex. They need condoms. They need birth control. If your religion does not allow it, too fooking bad. Stay out of my private life and the life of my women. Abstinence? Don't make me laugh. Next thing ya know we're having the "war on sex." Conservatives are fooking just as stupid as liberals. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
The point, Steve, is that we're talking about a government program that has been shown over and over again to be a waste of money, much like D.A.R.E. has, but we keep pouring hundreds of millions into them because it makes some people feel good.
Personally, I don't think this Ozzie and Harriet abstinence day you pine for was all that healthy either. And there's somewhere between healthy human sexuality and NAMBLA. I don't think not having sex is a moral value. Chastity can be a personal choice, but it's not something I'm all that interested in promoting at the federal level. "Seems evertime society sets a moral boundary it becomes the challenge to cross that line. At one time abstinence was common moral teaching. Things change." God, I hope so. Do you think abstinence is moral? What's immoral about having sex? |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Nothing Heck. What's immoral about a teacher ****ing a 15 year old? Not even ten or twelve. Fifteen. It's just the mores we grow up with. WSS |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Can you ever stay on one subject? Can you track one thought to the next?
We started talking about government abstinence programs, and whether or not they should be continued. You then posted something about whether we think it's natural for a 12 year old to suck a mans dick for a Barbie or Power Ranger. Um ...I don't even know what to say about that. Then you went off on some tangent about moral values and chastity and NAMBLA. Now we're on teachers having sex with their students. Do we really have to take a stand against NAMBLA, 12-year-olds sucking cock for action figures, and teachers having sex with their underage students? Is that a controversy we have to weigh in on? Yes, Steve, making a 12-year-old suck your cock for a Barbie is wrong. There, I said it. And I don't care who hears it either! |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Yep. If you read anything at all you'd get what I was saying. But my guess is you'll just repeat yourself a thousand times and use whatever patty insults amuse your lefty fans. Every generation sees a breakdown of what we accept. WSS |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Abstinence teaching in and of itself isn't the problem, I think it has more to do with the method of teaching. That and the fact that once they leave that classroom or whatever everything in our society says "Have sex. Having sex is cool, and if your not having sex your pretty much a loser"
It's an uphill battle no doubt, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted. I've heard several of you bitch and moan about how disrespectful and thugish today's youth is. And I wonder why that is? could it be we are seeing now an entire generation of kids that were raised by kids themselves? I wouldn't presume to try and hold the moral upper hand in this argument because I had sex way before marriage, however it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be a standard we strive to attain. |
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Outta Work Pimp Ring of Honor |
Abstinence = bullshit.
Just say no? Wow, whoever buys into this crap needs an enema. |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Spoken like a true childless person.... Seriously dude, nobody is advocating abstinence for life, but there is a thing as too young... Speaking of which, since we are on the subject, what age does it become appropriate for a kid to have sex? I'm just curious exactly where in your ass your going to pull this number.... |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Isn't the term "abstinence education" in and of itself kind of paradoxical?
What do you need to be taught about a negative? Don't do...nothing? Anyway, to me, sex education at school should be science based and morality should be taught at home or at church, or even at school but in a philosophy or theology class. The only sex education most semi-sentient kids should need is "Here are your parts, here's how they work, put 'em together and this is how babies happen." You want to prepare kids? Show them in living color what STDs do to the human body and then throw in the classic delivery video. Any kids that can't figure out for themselves to avoid those consequences probably can't be helped anyway. Teenagers aren't stupid. To the contrary, they're being deluged with so much obviously fake crap all the time that I find that they actually respond much better to actually being spoken to like intelligent human beings, rather than the morons that popular culture and marketing try to make them out to be. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
What dama said.
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Pro Bowl Player |
Hey, it's not a negative. You can say what you will about the relative merits of breeding, but I've never once ruined an entire restaurant's worth of diners' meals by bring a squaling infant in, or ruined someone's flight, or coerced people into buying cookies, or anything of the sort. I prefer Bill Hicks' take on children (and just about everything else, for that matter): your kids aren't special. Don't get me wrong, I understand that you think they're special...I'm just telling you that they're not. As for the "ideal" age for when kids should have sex, who knows? Eighteen is a perfectly arbitrary age--but let's remember that eighteen just means that they can legally have sex with adults. It seems reductive to say that there should be no set age, that nature and physical maturity should be the indicators, etc. To be perfectly honest, I don't care. I have no kids, so as long as the sex doesn't violate the law, I have no major objections. Granted, that's spoken like a true childless person, but look on the bright side: since I don't have kids, I feel no need to demand that other people not indulge their tastes so as not to corrupt my kids. Dennis |
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