Gotcha. I agree that tiered regulation would be cumbersome (probably to the point of uselessness) but I guess when it comes to immediate implementation, I'm more worried about the "little guy" - the ones who won't be able to write off the short term losses.

..ahem..

me.

GM once had a great relationship with the Japanese evidenced from them powering their light & medium duty trucks with isuzu diesels (the Duramax). But they've crapped on that relationship over the past year or so.

The infrastructure & the way our country is layed out is so different from the rest of the world. Specifically the "highway/interstate." Whereas in europe & Japan connections between major citys are tied to rail (above or sub) and here it is the "open road." What I am getting at is that these locations requiring automotive transport generally had to find a vehicle to shuttle them around via short trips/stop-start/ small spaces. They've always been ahead of the US in terms of shear mass reduction as a form of efficiency, but now they have incentive to alter the power plant as well. Thus the electric engine portion of the hybrid is born and excels in these short trip/ tiny vehicle situations. Where we (the US) lose a lot of the benefit of the electric engine is out on the freeway (which coincidentally for my suggestion is where diesels excel) which makes up significantly larger portion of Americans travel than that of other countries.
So, the incentive (so far) hasn't been there for US automakers as much as it has in other countries. A guy who commutes an hour to work each day and spends 50 minutes of that on the interstate is probably better off buying just a little 4 cylinder rather than forking over the extra $$ for the hybrid. Again, the incentive to "go green" is lacking on the demand side as well.

Hybrid electric-diesel is the way to go, I think. Especially if we can get the biodiesel up and running.

Yes, these taxes have to be traded for others so as not to punish businesses. We want to them to succeed in this endeavor, not crumble under its weight.

And the ones who change and innovate will reap huge rewards, especially under a cap and trade system, where firms under the emissions target will sell their unused pollution credits to from firms that are over it.

Yeah, you make a good point about the cars. But you should come to LA. Priuses are everywhere. This is perhaps the spot in America where a hybrid makes the most sense. There is no public transportation to speak of, and most of the driving is stop and go, even on the freeways.

Filling up just cost me $56 yesterday. A year ago that was $33 or so. I can't wait to get me one of those things.

And I agree. I'd love to be able to go home and plug my car in for the night. Nothing irks me like sticking that pump in the tank. I just picture Saudis laughing.

Yeah tell me about it. I've got a jetta wagon (gas- shame on my wife) and an F-350 diesel. 36 gallon tank on the ford x $4/gal is starting to get irratating. But it's paid for, and I do need it (kind of).


Grandad has got a prius. Loves it. And this comes from the grandad who told me he "Didn't care if it was the last car on earth, I'd just as soon walk rather than buy a Jap car. They killed all of my buddies." (They actually did. He ran with an older crowd that happened to be stationed in Honolulu almost 70 years ago. Not one of them survived. He was 16 & lied to enlist after that happened.)

Like I've said, I want to see the electric mated with diesel. on cars, trucks, everything. I'd look into a Prius if they weren't so damn gay looking.
(kidding)

*edit* You've got a far less perverse picture of what the Saudis are doing to you than I do... good for you.

Ha. Yeah, and I've got relatives who won't buy your Volkswagen for the same reason.

What's gas where you are? And where are you?

gas was 3.11 for 87 until yesterday - now it's anywhere from 3.23-3.40. Diesel $4.06

I live on the Eastern Shore of VA. Work/school in the Hampton Roads area (Norfolk, Va. Beach).

quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
Ha. Yeah, and I've got relatives who won't buy your Volkswagen for the same reason.

Yeah, some family friends just finally purchased their 1st Mercedes after 35-40 years of being able to afford one. The dad drove around in Lexus probably before the Japanese did.
Guess their religion/ ethnicity.

I'll make you feel a little better. 87 was $4.09 today in Los Angeles.

We have the most expensive gas because it's got different additives in there to assist with our little smog problem. Maybe you've heard about it.

The actual pumps are different here, too, by law. They let fewer something-or-others out when you're pumping.

The good thing is it's actually helped. The air is better now than it was 10 years ago, and 10 years before that. Which isn't to say that it's good, but it's better.

I'm convinced that one of the reasons this area is a hotbed of environmentalism is for that very reason. You can see the pollution every day. and it's not just LA. The farming regions in the Central Valley have some of the most polluted air in the country.

Feeling "better" would definitely be relative in this case...

Glad to hear the smog problem is getting corrected. Hope for the worldwide CO2 emissions?

Relative indeed.

And "corrected" is relative as well. When I leave LA and come back, that plane ride in is always a doozy. You come through the mountains into the LA Basin and wham. It looks like a thin layer of clouds, but it ain't no thin layer of clouds.

The city was simply designed with no foresight. You can't get anywhere without a car. And they left no greenspace. And it's spread out for miles and miles because so many people want to live here.

Okay, there's greenspace where Shep lives, but...

There's more undeveloped land in L.A. than any other major city in the world... but it's all up by me, Heck.

Seriously, it's so beautiful up here, I get distracted from my son's games, looking at the way the sun hits the mountains we're nestled into. You look at this place from one of the hills, it's just amazing.

Sun shines all day every day here, without the oppressive heat of The Valley. Which we aren't, and are quick to remind anybody who thinks we are.

And 15 minutes door-to-door to Zuma, the beach that can never really be crowded (it's too huge). Great waves, too.

But it's also the Cougar capital of the world. The washed-up celebrity pictures at the car wash are absolutely hilarious. And it's unusually Republican, for L.A.

But you'd be shocked how many nice restaurants are in Westlake Village.

Los Angeles sucks. Plain and simple. You can try and gloat about how wonderful it is, but it is a cesspool of crime and polution. Have a nice fantasy day.

quote:

Seriously, it's so beautiful up here, I get distracted from my son's games, looking at the way the sun hits the mountains we're nestled into. You look at this place from one of the hills, it's just amazing.

Beautiful? You must be joking. LA is one of the most ugly cities I have ever seen. And I have seen more then either of you!

DieHard (and I can't believe I'm trying to speak to you), have you hiked in the Santa Monica Mountains? We live 40 miles N of L.A., up against the east side of them. Horse country, mountains, lakes and trees (hence, "Thousand Oaks"). More nature then you'd find anywhere else, including mountain lions and coyotes sometimes.

Drive Malibu Canyon Road or Kanan and you could be driving through the middle of Hawaiian island... and that's how we get to Zuma, which is an unbelievably gorgeous beach.

I can't imagine a more beautiful place, and I've seen the vast majority of America, too. Sunny and warm every single day. It's a wonderful town with a Top 100 National High School, which is really impressive for a public school. And this area is the ONLY area in the United States to be in the Top 10 Safest Places to Live... 10 straight years.

Where the hell do you live that could be prettier? Oz? Your mind? Where?

And there plenty of other gorgeous (and cool) places in L.A. besides the Conejo Valley and Malibu. Venice, Santa Monica, Marina Del Ray, Beverly Hills, the Sunset Strip...

There are ugly areas in any big city.

This is an overhead of my neighborhood... haven't found the high angle of the whole village (stunning):

http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image?provider_id=10&size=...&ptp_photo_id=463190

This is one of the lakes, across the street from us:

http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image?provider_id=10&size=...&ptp_photo_id=463182

And Lake Sherwood Country Club:

http://www.golfcoursehome.net/doc/communities/SherAerial.jpg

Finally, the smoggy, crime-ridden hell that is Zuma Beach, a gorgeous 12 to 15 drive from Westlake Village:

http://www.capsuel.de/wp-content/uploads/usa2007/malibu1.jpg

Yeah, I think there's a reason why LA real estate is a bit pricey. And it's not because it's ugly and people don't like it here.

Those are pretty sweet pics shep.

And since we're boasting , I think we could stay in the competition over here on the shore......

Bay Creek Golf Course hosting a Palmer & a Nicklaus side-by-side.

And my town with the Chesapeake Bay in the backgournd

Gorgeous, man.

I can't boast, though. It was like this when I got here (!).

Shep!!!!!!!!!! Beautiful pictures man! I LOVE the water!

I grew up near the Finger Lakes in Upstate NY. I went to football camp every summer on Keuka Lake and did my college inernship a stones throw from Skaneateles Lake. Some of the best scenery you could ever imagine. My cousins lived on Canandaigua Lake. Summers were fun!

When we first moved to TN - my wife took me over to Old Hickory Lake and said "could you see us living near this?" I said absolutely even though I wanted to see a little more of Nashville first. Then she said "can I show you something?" She drives me 1 block away and shows me this for sale sign and guess where we live today?

This part of TN is alot LIKE the Finger Lakes region of Upstate NY without the brutal winters. There's 2 lakes: Percy Priest and Old Hickory Lake. They're both pretty kind to the eye.
- Tom F.