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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
Just what you told us while making excuses for not driving a hybrid... WSS |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Here's an example, Sev.
A few weks ago we were really sick with a virus. Susan got out a bottle of mexican tetracycline and took a couple. I raised hell with her and she said "well what are YOU doing?? Nothing?? WSS |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
It's not simply the car you drive. It's the amount of gas you use. If you reduce your consumption of gasoline, you're doing a small part.
You can change the bulbs in your house. You can focus on buying locally grown produce and locally manufactured products. You can reduce your consumption of meat. (Eliminating it is about the same as switching to a hybrid.) You can recycle. There's lots of small things people can do. But no, individuals aren't going to have to make drastic changes to their behavior. You're just wrong. Just as the acid rain problem wasn't going to be addressed by changes in personal behavior, that's not what is required here. It only helps on the margins. This is primarily a problem for government and the private sector. You're just wrong about that. Again. |
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Hall of Famer |
Steve Powerful leadership in the role of our president can be world altering. Our president depending on how they choose to enact the will of the people and or use the populace can force change.
Do I think this society is ready to enact population controls... Hell no not by a longshot. This culture has shown historically what I like to call the wolverine syndrome. If backed into a corner we show just how fierce we really are but not until then. It would take the problem almost being completely out of hand before this culture reacts. WW2 was a perfect example. I am more like you steve than what I admit. I do feel extremely pessimistic at times and really hate a lot of the things I have to do to try to teach my kids how to be responsible. I really, really, really hate the red meat restriction. I hate the pooling and planning of vehicle use, I hate the cost of the "energy efficient" and self producing low yield crap, yes I said crap solar panels. I do think that the problem is so vast why the hell should I even try, people are to selfish normally. Honestly its really my kids that hold me the course and forces me to keep mentally positive. If I did not have any kids I do not think in all honesty I would do any of things I do. I have seen things I thought were impossible actually happen and change. I know that a lot of people fail to climb Everest for a lot of reasons. People do reach the summit, we have landed on the moon (I think?). So I do believe this problem is fixable. |
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Hall of Famer |
Heck, you remind me of a woman. You always think your right. You think that your intelligence is far superior to anyone else. What have you ever done in your life besides go to college? Your quite annoying. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
I invented a way for people like you to learn how to write. It's called "Hooked on Phonics."
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Hall of Famer |
Like I said, annoying. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
I'm not trying to be your friend. We're talking about global warming. And Steve keeps posting one dumb idea or falsehood after another. What do you want me to do, give him a sticker for the effort?
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Actually I don't expect anything raspectful from you Heck. You're a smart enough guy and my dime store psychoanalysis is that you don't really even care this much but you can't help but be combative. That's cool, and I'm no stranger to that idea,but I'd be willing to bet that if you were among other friends and had to honestly answer if a carbon tax or any other measure that the Obama administration could reasonably pass will stop CO2 emissions where they are today I think you'd answer "probably not." And at todays level we're doomed. But ya just can't say it to me. All I'm saying is that if it's as dire as you say we will need drastic measures and we're not willing to do that. I think you know that too. I recycle and use flourescents most of the time. BFD. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Sev
I think great leadership relies on history. And you need extraordinary world circumstances. And luck. I haven't seen one in this century. I've seen some I liked, like Ronald Reagan, but the loyal opposition hated his guts and typically of the bitter left called him stupid. Like Ford. Nixon? Roosevelt? Truman? Johnson? Jack and Bobby? All hated by somebody. Sorry amigo, I just can't drink the Obama Kool Aid. So far only about half of the furthest left of his own party has. Maybe I'm a cynic but when tragedy really strikes and we pull out over time whoever is holding the potato will get the credit. Or the blame. As soon as Obama asks America to do something painful, the Kool Aid will wear off. IMO And Europe China India and the rest are competitors. Not enemies and not allies unless it makes them profit. WSS |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
You keep trying to get me to admit something I'm not claiming in the first place.
No, a carbon tax won't instantly freeze CO2 emissions. They're not designed to, nor are they the only method of reducing co2 emissions. It's really not about me not wanting to let you have that victory. It's that nobody was arguing that in the first place. Nor are we "doomed" at today's levels. Nor do we need drastic measures. We ned strong action. I wish you were up for it, but you don't seem to be. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Sorry. No matter how serious it is I say the carbon tax will be ineffective in halting anything but the economy. But I'll compromise. Make it reasonable and give it all to Exxon to adapt all gas stations to hydrogen fuel cell stations and build nuke plants and I'm in. Ethanol powered windmills? Blow me. WSS |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
You see, the idea of the windmill is that it's powered by the wind...
...Nevermind. |
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calfoxwc Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
carbon tax credits are simply a boon to the rich. They can pollute all they want, like Algore, but it's okay because they pay money.
See? Being a liberal short circuits brain cells into reverse logic. I suspect that carbon tax credits are the new fraudelent way of raising money to buy votes from anybody who is dumb enough they won't catch on to what's happening. Or, they are so slovenly they want "entitlements" for their votes, and the Dem panderers are all about that. Stupid global warming caused by SUV's.  |
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calfoxwc Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
And, btw, we have skylights in the roof and the sun side of our new barn going up.
Beat that.  |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
You want him to post things he thinks are wrong? I'm gonna go with the notion that you're a total moron until you do something to change my mind. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
The CBO on the carbon tax:
"Most analyses suggest that a carefully designed program to begin lowering CO2 emissions would produce greater benefits than costs." “A tax on emissions would be the most efficient incentive-based option for reducing emissions and could be relatively easy to implement. If it was coordinated among major emitting countries, it would help minimize the cost of achieving a global target for emissions by providing consistent incentives for reducing emissions around the world. If other major nations used cap-and-trade programs rather than taxes on emissions, a U.S. tax could still provide roughly comparable incentives for emission reductions if the tax rate each year was set to equal the expected price of allowances under those programs." You can read the rest here: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/89xx/doc8934/Summary.4.1.shtml Tupa? Legacy? Anyone? Come on, Tupa. We could go into the smoke-filled room and bang out another piece of compromise legislation and be at the bar by five. |
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Hall of Famer |
Everyone should read Greg Mankiw's Pigou Club Manifesto.
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Come on, Tupa. This shit should have been done years ago. I'm down at the bar at the Willard with my cigar and my Scotch. Sen. Aloysius is with me, along with Vice President Shep and some girls from the Emperor's Club. Let's make a deal.
What do you say? |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
I kind of addressed my opinion, in another thread:
-but as far as getting industry to "make the switch/ make it happen" as I would like, I am at a loss. There needs to be a catalyst, I agree, but I think a CO2 emissions tax is going to hurt more than it helps in years 3-10ish. In the same light as fuel surcharges being added to the price of goods now (and not actually making it back to those paying for the fuel), I think the CO2 tax will get over-implemented in that arena (add'l cost of goods). I'd really like for biodiesel to be the solution. It's already proven that little to no efficiency is lost in the combustion of it. No significant CO2 emissions. Suiting up current diesel's for the stuff is relatively easy (and very cheap - compared to purchasing a hybrid). I'd also like to see hybrid electric-diesels. Why they are reserving the distinction for gasoline engines is embarassing to even think about. With almost twice the compression of gasoline, you would think they'd try & make this happen. If "they" could get the cost down of producing the stuff (with minimal efficiency lost in production) I think that is our best solution for the next 15-20 yrs. That is, until they make these in 2015.  |
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