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First Day Draft Selection |
i was trying to ask delicately so he simply wouldn't accuse me of being another minority hater and ignore the question.....he seems to think that everyone wants to better themselves rather than mooch off the system. based on where im from, i know this to be completely and utterly false.
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AFC North Player of the Month |
They are just waiting for the "right" job. You know the one, lets you sit around at home all day and not do much more then watch TV. Opps that is called Gov't assistance. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Aye aye aye.
Will someone please explain to me how a job training program -- say, one that teaches computer literacy, for instance -- allows someone to "sit around at home all day and not do much more then watch TV." Will someone explain to me how any of the programs I'm talking about is a day in the sun moochfest? Can you guys get outside the box of your own preconceptions about what poor minorities do all day or not? |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
You guys? LOL WSS |
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Pro Bowl Player |
>>Can you guys get outside the box of your own preconceptions about what poor minorities do all day or not?>>
To quote Obama The Almighty, 'Sounds like this guy is a typical minority person'. |
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Outta Work Pimp Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
So you think we need a balance between FM's and Gov Aid? Problem is Leftist's tend to trust Government way too much for my liking. More people on this Earth have been helped by Free Market nations, and the Free Market itself, than any Government in the history of mankind. Any aid you see coming from the US to the UN is a direct result of FREE MARKET's. Don't tell me people don't have access to Free Markets. You only need to look to Africa to understand what Free Markets do for impoverished nations. I don't see too many Socialist and Communist nations giving what we do. Why? Because the government is a pisspoor management of a nations finances. Ben Franklin said it right: "The more you help people the less they help themselves." |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Again, you guys take this somewhere other than what we're discussing.
DD, you seem to be saying that the best thing to do for inncer city communities like Cabrini-Green and South Central and all the rest is to pull up the rug and not provide any assistance at all. Is that what you're saying? I'm trying to get you nailed down on this and you keep veering off into a discussion about something else. Do you believe the government has no role to play in these areas? |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
I think what's being said is that these hell holes have been supported solely by government "assistance" for decades, and there seems to be no real improvement in sight. In fact just the opposite. That sound right to you? WSS |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Is there a reason why you guys can't answer this question?
You've expressed your displeasure with what I can only guess is traditional welfare payments and food stamps vis a vis your complaints about lazy people who sit on their ass. Repeatedly. Got it. You don't believe in welfare payments and food stamps. Check. Now, do you think government should play a role in addressing underperforming/unsafe areas like Cabrini-Green? If you don't, say no. If you do think something should be done, what do you think should be done? |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
I read through this for three damn pages and I was hoping somebody would have the cojones to say, "Of course our tax dollars and government have a responsibility to create access and opportunity in places where there's little of either. But here's how I'd like to see those programs work..."
I was betting on Legacy. So far, all the horses are still in the barn. Whether it's inner cities or Appalachia, we absolutely have a responsibility to help break the cycle of poverty, addiction, hopelessness, and abuse, which exist in a horrific cycle. These people do not all suffer because they are bad. But some certainly go bad from all the suffering. If you don't think that's right and just and necessary, you have to embrace the fact that you are at least some definition of the word "evil." I mean that honestly and without the slightest hesitation. Your soul is a bleak, cold, barren place. Sorry if that's harsh, but it's true. Embrace it or change. It's not even a political issue. It's a moral-ethical issue. Spin it, cloak it in flags and talking points, refer to it as an economic policy... it's all the same. It's all cold, callous disregard for those who have so much less than you. It is what it is, guys. Be it. Embrace it. Or stop it. That's all you got. Will some people take better advantage of those programs than others? Are there people who will abuse the assistance? Are some poor people "bad" just as some rich people and corporations are "bad?" Sure. So what? I mean, seriously... so the **** what? That's a valid excuse in your world? Heck, I give you so much credit for patience and civility. And Toop, I'm not talking about you. Leg, you neither, but testicle up and say something that reveals the better you. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Oh, I'm not that patient. But how upset can you be when it's 85 and sunny on Easter Sunday?
Legacy, you're big on "teaching a man to fish." If these are programs designed to do just that -- to teach job skills in order to move people from dependency to self-sufficiency -- are you in favor of that? Isn't that exactly what you're talking about? |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Programs to teach workers skills is great, but still it will not help and why is the Fed suppose to pay for it.
It will not help becuase the people that would take the most advantage of it are single moms, and who is going to watch the kids? Why are the churchs not taking the lead here? Why does the Rev Wight not use some of that cash he has to establish some daycare centers, or how about training some of the neighboorhood people to work in one, or better yet put up the starting capital for miniority owned daycare business. There is a start and that is where it should start, not by the Fed handing out checks. I cannot understand how you do not get this. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Because your idea is ridiculous. Since when do churches have enough money to be in the venture capital business, or start up job training centers or day care centers and staff employees and pay their heath care? Since when is that their responsibility anyway? This is ludicrous.
Here's what I don't get: why would you think that education in the form of job training programs isn't the government's responsibility, but it's the church's? What kind of backwards nonsense is that? And why are "Programs to teach workers skills" great, if "it will not help"? Wouldn't that be a waste of money? What about programs that do help? Are they okay? |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
First let looks at this. "Wright traveled to Libya and Syria with Rev. Jesse Jackson and Minister Louis Farrakhan" Please tell me that any of these guy are hurting for cash, let alone if they have the cash in the chruch to travel they can help the community they support.
2nd it is the community's responsibility to try and help them selves. In the neighbors use to help each others out, the chruch would help the community. Funny how groups like the Quakers and such do it. The problem is that until you fix other problems any training program is not going to do any good. But hey while the Rev Wright travels and lives the good life in retirement, his flock has needs. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
Absolutely. Somebody else brought up Return on Investment. But then that creates another arm of bureaucracy. 1st you've those who administer the training (the good guys), & then you've got the ones who check up on the ROI (ends up becoming the bad guys) So much waste when the "checklist bunch" gets involved, I think. And yes, I know I just said the checking is needed. I'm at loss on doing so efficiently. I still return to parenting as public enemy #1. My wife's good friend stopped by Friday and was telling us that in her Kindergarten class, 1/3 of the kids don't know their shapes/ colors/basics. She is mandated to prepare the kids for 1st grade. That means dumbing down her teaching to get the lower portion up to "functional" speed. I would venture a guess that this happens all the way through school. I think the gov't should be obliged to help out in the Cabrini's of the country. I also think the churches, schools, & parents should play an equal or greater role in it. How many generations should the gov't be obliged to help? That's where it gets gray for me. The jobs are out there. That's why we have an immigration problem. If you look at the immigrants (illegal) - the 1st generations are your concrete workers, framers, drywall laborers etc. 2nd generation are electricians, HVAC mechanics, etc. They've figured it out. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
"I think the gov't would be obliged to help out in the Cabrini's of the country. I also think the churches, schools, & parents should play an equal or greater role in it."
Legacy, we may now go get a beer. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
How about 2?
I just edited before seeing your post.  |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
I'm Irish. And so is my liver.
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Hall of Fame Legend |
Fantastic. I'm mostly Scottish, but 50/50 on the liver.
What are you thoughts on the "term limits" or lack thereof for the help/support? (The gray area I mentioned directly after our agreement) |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
You mean the welfare payments specifically? They already are finite. You can only receive welfare payments for five years. Same with unemployment insurance. I'm guessing that's news to some people in here, who still have this image of the "welfare queen" from the 1980s.
If you're talking about should there be a point where we announce that after a century of slavery and a century of segregation and Jim Crow, 40 years of government attention is plenty? I suppose so. But I think it's clear that some of that historical disadvantage has yet to be meted out. But take affirmative action, for instance. That's at the end of it's utility as a purely race-based program. Advances in the economic standing of blacks and women have to be taken into account, i.e. no one should get a preference simply because of their race or gender. And the courts have moved us away from that as well. So yes, these types of race-based programs need to be constantly re-evaluated. But the things I'm talking about have little or nothing to do with race so much as people who are economically and educationally disadvantaged areas. There are poor white parts of this country that could benefit from these programs, too. So you're talking about something else. Cabrini-Green, and places like it, need assistance because they're American disaster areas, not because of the race of the people who live there. |
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