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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
Try to keep a grip. WTF do handguns have to do with it? Or torture? This Abu Ghraib is some asshole kids in uniform ****ing with prisoners. A bad thing. Not even a tiny fraction of your pals beheading civilians. But they weren't torturing these people for information. Which is a different story. WSS |
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Hall of Famer |
I agree with you steve that at times a liberal left leaning media does indeed report unfairly about our misdeeds because it is "news worthy". You are right we dont have a balanced media that provides information without an agenda or is heavily influenced either by the White House or stories that sounds good but have little substance.
The abu ghraib thing really pisses me off not necessarily at the pfc's and sergeants more the Administration and upper echelon starred generals that ordered this in the first place. They should be the ones held accountable in a more severe way than the Pawns. Hell even the "private NGO operators" who were in charge never saw any justice. |
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Pro Bowl Player |
>>Honestly, if someone is actually pro handgun, supportive of the Bush administration, and okey-dokey with torture? It's so seriously time for therapy and a few months in a quiet place. Because that's ****ed up.>>
How many times can I say this...................WAR IS NOT NICE. It is a dirty thing and I expect that the US does whatever it can to protect its assets and civilians. I do not promote waterboarding for waterboarding's sake but have no problem using that technique if we were to gain valuable and time-sensitive intelligence. Turning one's head and saying that we need to play by the rules - tell me what the rules are - and I say that we need to be competitive - at least. Do what you have to do. You have to be in the game to win and winning doesn't mean playing to the lame sentiment of Congress and the media. Let the General's and military folks to their job. Iraq is like Viet Nam and for one important reason. We believe the right way to micro-manage a war is by sitting in Washington and letting our petty differences get in the way of the 'experts'. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
It is like Viet Nam for another reason.............the people of both countries viewed us as "invaders" and want us the hell out of their homeland
as opposed to WWII when we marched through the streets in parades and salutes from the people and were viewed as "LIBERATORS" |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
[quote]The abu ghraib thing really pisses me off not necessarily at the pfc's and sergeants more the Administration and upper echelon starred generals that ordered this in the first place.[/quote
I'd guess no one high up ordered any of that. It's just assholes being assholes, or at least it looks that way to me. I just can't picture Dick Cheney ordering anybody to do that shit. For what? OTOH I imagine if a high value prisoner they believed to have information might get rough interrogation, that may come from higher up. And in those actual small number of cases I look the other way. There was just no benefit for us in Abu Ghraib. WSS WSS[/b] |
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Hall of Famer |
Well steve we can agree to disagree, I do think that was ordered specifically. back to my mothers day "celebration" with my Inlaws....
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Some folks see it the other way.......the media is pandering to the right and forgetting to show a lot of data......like the WAR..........the WMD.......the daily murders by Israel...... And the total toll and death count in Iraq........I find it amusing the Liberal Media calls Iraqi Freedom Fighters "Insurgents" the term itself is the height of arrogance I think for the most part you encompass a balanced view......I applaud that but I caution you the media is owned by this Administration..............they were told up front......"Either you are with us or with the Terrorists".........and since that day they been sucking up to a war and an agenda that serves no purpose other than inflame people to hate each other |
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Hall of Famer |
No way it was ordered specifically by anyone in charge, not even a LTCOL. These were National Guard Troops who were banging each other. There were some Intelligence Agents there, but they don't hang with the Guard troops, trust me. They were doing this for kicks. If you think otherwise your an dummy,. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
We can do that Sev, but I'm curious as to why you think Rumsfeld or any general thought the head bags and weenie pointing were going to help. Torturing Zawahiri sure, but..... Be good to Mom. WSS |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Actually I think it was a little of both. While no-one up the COC (Chain of Command) specificly ordered those morons to act like they did, they did foster an enviornment that allowed it to take place. There was a break down in leadership. A good NCO would have known what was going on, he or she would have known and nipped it in the bud quick. The fact that it went on in the open to me means that the COC did not care and figured that any additional harassment was warrented.
2nd, the CO (Commanding Officer) is responsible for what went on under his command. IMHO the fact that it was not addressed at a local level is the same as the CO giving the order. If he had control of his command it would not have happened. This was a prision not a mess tent. This is also the same excuse that is used when piss poor conditions at VA hospitals are exposed. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
What about that tape of Condy, Cheney, and the dude who quit (I can't believe I lost his name) and others meeting to discuss, in a nutshell, torture? Unusually micromanaging, in fact.
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Hall of Famer |
You are probably pretty spot on Nav, you and I have seen "private ngo's otherwise known as Cia/military outsourced intelligence operators".
Only because Rumsfeld was as controlling as I have ever seen a secretary of defense of specific pentagon policies and tactics. I do think he specifically knew and authorized as Nav puts it a envirement to produce information by any means. They did it in a way that they had an "out" if they were caught. Regardless of the fact I do think that these Pfc's and nco's were ordered and prodded to do what they did by the private operators who were doing that specifically at the request and given carte blanche by the Administration. Cia pretty much clears a vast majority of what they can or can not do first thru the administration. They really dont act autonomously like in the movies. Still Nav is right these idiots had options to behave in a appropriate way,they failed and cost us a PR nightmare. |
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Hall of Famer |
Sev, just because you were a LCPL in the ROK Marines hardly makes you an expert on the CIA. Quit trying to impress people with your supposed knowledge in every area of everything. It's getting sickening. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
You're still confusing the issues. Hazing and humiliation of the prisoners at AG was for the amusement of the guards. The CO probably had a good idea but blew it off. "Torturing" a prisoner thought to have information relevant to future terrorism is a seperate thing. WSS |
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Hall of Famer |
Agree. They took pictures for their own amusement. They were from some hick town in PA or WV and most were civilian corrections officers. This had nothing to do with Rumsfeld or the CIA. These prisoners would have been at GITMO if they were such hi profile types. These were your run of the mill insurgents. |
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Outta Work Pimp Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
That is some of the most seriously ignorant, f ucked up and retarted psts you have ever made. Congratulations you have now topped every moronic post by the posters you rail against. I think YOU need the quiet place because you are not handling these adult subject very well. |
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Hall of Famer |
ok diehard, I did not ever claim to be an expert in intelligence. Its pretty common knowledge how the administrative functions of the CIA works. If that "pisses" you off put me on ignore.
Wrong rank I was not enlisted, I served past the 26 months of constitutional conscription after I already had a degree. Daewi something like your naval lieutenant 0-3, not exactly but close enough. |
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