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AFC North Player of the Month |
What different tactic is there to try? The region has been killing each other for a long freakin time and as long as there are religious "reasons" they will continue.
SO hey lets leave, screw them, let them rape and kill each other. Tie food prices to oil. Bet I can go longer not driving then they can not eating. If you don't want to do that then it is time to force the hand. |
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Outta Work Pimp Ring of Honor  |
LOL. I am thinking Sev was talking out his ass. I can't find this anywhere in the net and I have looked for two days. Civilian detainee my ass. |
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Hall of Famer |
school my ass?
I graduated Osu (3 years)in the spring quarter of 1990, I have a my undergrad in bus adm, minor in international business. I served rokmc we were obviously deployed along with seemingly every other country in the world to support the Persian gulf war because we are allies with the US. As for my cross training in israel because they have a similar hostile border situation Like that of south korea. I have spent time in the areas that you talk about along with "humanitarian" deployments into Africa. We also for obvious reason spent a lot of time with U.S. military and my unique dual citizenship also gave me extra duties and relationships with this military. So keep talking to me like you understand the region, talk about this war and my "bleeding heart" because I want my fellow vets back in some reasonable time. I honestly dont want to fathom the hell of multiple tours inside that region with criminals who are not uniformed like they were in the gulf war trying to hit and run or booby trap a road. I hated the time I spent the first time and am genuinly pissed that soldiers are on their 5th or 6th tours. That is too much these people will never be the same. Listen Steve there are worse things than that picture that was done in Abu ghraib and honestly no one even knows about other prisoners that are transported to Israel or other nations prisons to escape international monitorinig. Every country has protocol in place to export prisoners to others nations in order to "debrief" them. When I get back from my kids basketball game I will pull those files that were sent to me and find the link and post it. I dont like this occupation in that region because I had to serve their for a time and understand just how chaotic it is. DD I have picked up many books along with mandatory education prior to being deployed specifically about the region and Iran. I am not an expert on all things Iranian but I do have a very good understanding from actually interacting with some iranians and serving in the region. Nav I respect your point of view I just respectfully disagree. |
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Hall of Famer |
here is the first link to the photo i will get the link that further explains in a bit
http://www.worldsfamousphotos.com/tag/iraq here is the other link about the photographer http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/02/13/worldpress.photo.ap/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A62511-2004May28?language=printer Most of the buses continued on to destinations including Tikrit, Baquoba and Kirkuk. There was no immediate figure for the number of prisoners released, but the U.S. military said they would set up to 600 people free, reducing the number of those still detained to under 3,000. Still talking out of my Ass DD? Steve my change in regional diplomatic Tactics not ground operations. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
nav is dumb he blindly supports republicans snd war no matter who is the cause |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
DD is worse than dumb he cannot even do simple math............trying logic with him is well less than pissing your pants |
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Outta Work Pimp Ring of Honor |
Yes you are dude. That was March 31, 2003. The war just started. I am not saying we did not make **** ups, but you entire posting in this thread led me to believe this was last fooking week. The war was a few weeks old by then for crying out loud, and still you have no idea what this guy did or did not do. Sure you're going to give him the benefit of the doubt and I will give the US the benefit of the doubt. 2003 - March??? Come the fook on dude, lame on your part. Your friend just sent this to you? From March 2003?
Why don't we just start pulling photos of all the good things Americans have done over there? I will tell you why, because this leftist leaning board will just shoot it down. My lord man, it is 2008. The war was not even a month old by then. It started on March 20th. Lame post. I am done with it! |
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Hall of Famer |
Look at the post title DD, it is about the feeling the photo invokes not about the timing. Look at the discussion it is about humanity and the cost of war. Yes my friend sent me that photo recently because photos like that are not disseminated easily in the US because of Administration orders.
Yes he sends me things to remind me and to discuss what it is going on. that is not the most recent photo he sent me it is the only one that is what I am willing to share because the other ones deal with children. I served in the gulf and have a lot of friends still there. You are some individual that has differing opinions which I respect. Civilians who have not seen real combat or suffering talk about it glib slogan statements. i wanted to show the human cost that soldiers who are in theatre see and are often scarred with for life. Its not necessarily the "enemy" combatants that scar soldiers it is the innocent cost and suffering. There are people there not just terrorists and other assorted criminals. You must not have any children DD because the human factor is lost on you from this picture. Like I said Dd maybe you need to gain some perspective go volunteer for service and see some of the world and have some children then we will see how you feel. |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Rich have you made any harassing phone calls today. |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Sev here is another link. Sounds like they are more concerned with winning a prize then the actual event.
http://ap.org/pages/about/pressreleases/pr_021304.html So how long was the man detained? For an event of such global importance it seems to be lost in the whole winning aspect. |
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Hall of Famer |
nav I understand that, photos like that are picked because of the emotion they can cause. One vet to another you know I would NEVER do anything to denegrate our mission because it hurts our shared friends. Regardless of political motivations what is important is the people who actually serve not the politicians nor the civilians who speak in slogan terms.
I dont like our soldiers who are blamed for what the politicians advocate in the first place. I posted this picture as a father,vet and a patriot. The cost of any war is the violence that is placed on civilians not us soldiers, we accepted what might happen to us the moment we enlisted they did not and certainly their children did not. your friends and mine are deployed right now in their 5th,6th and even 7th tours with a unclear enemy. I cant sleep normally 15 maybe up to 20 nights a month, I now understand my fathers dysfunctions, I dont want that for my children. I am "brainwashing" all of them to serve. I want them to serve in peacekeeping or peace time actions. I know and so do you how barbaric and unforgiving the world is outside of the US, I want citizens here to wake up. I dont care about this photographer, what I care about is the message this photo can bring in understanding the human cost to what these dam politicians decide. Less than 2% of this population actually serve in the military to protect 360 million civilians. War is not something a vast majority of them understand. it is time they see the real truth of war, not the protected version provided by the pentagon at the direction of the Administration and his draft/active duty dodging friends. |
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Outta Work Pimp Ring of Honor |
    Here below is a heartbreaking photo that should receive more widespread coverage. His own people use him as a sheild, yet he feels safe hiding behind an American to use as a sheild, which is what American soldiers and Marines - our finest - do. We are their sheild   |
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Hall of Famer |
those are great pics DD thanks for posting them. I dont want you to think that i dont see some of the good that soldiers are doing there. Soldiers on their own do things they feel is right because of the human aspect that most of us have.
Our soldiers are brothers,sisters,fathers,mothers,sons, and daughters they can empathise. There are always two sides of the coin and unfortunately there is a a lockdown on any pics that the administration term "negative/counter policy" They threaten any network or company that publishes them with cutting them off from official white house news briefs etc if they post of show them in any way to the public. That is basically whitewashing the reality of the war to the public and dishonest. People would Be MUCH more upset if they were seeing unbiased/government policy influenced videos and pictures of the occupation. |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
They would but is that not for every war. Tell me that if Saving Private Ryan came out during WWI it would not have outraged the public and possibly changed the outcome of the war. War is a dirty nasty business. You see sides of great compassion and also humanity at its worse. What I don't like about Pics is that is does not tell the whole story. Is this a pic of an inocent man caught up with his son. Or is it of a man that was just caught firing a weapon at two US Service men that only want to get back alive to their sons and are taking no chances. The man may be lucky he is still alive as it could have been safer to just eliminate him if he was fighting. I understand about the pics and the cost of war should not be forgotten. But I think it is more relavent after the fact. Remind and teach people what the price for a war is. make sure that they understand what will be lost and not just human life before that path is set upon. But once it has set, if it is for a just cause, then as a nation we need to buckle down and get it done. If there are issues about the way that is happening, chang ethe elected officials but keep strong in your support. When it is over, all horrors and teach the young that this is the last resort and should not be taken lightly. My last grip, if this man was being handled so badly why did the reporter snap the shot and ran away. Ok he gets the photo out, why not go back and stand up and speak out against this. Why not force the world into action agaist this. He is the press if he does not have the power then who does. No it apears that he snapped and left. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
The NYT ran the mickey mouse pics from Abu Grahib ad nauseum. Do you suppose Al Jezeera is as obsessed with actual Arab atrocities? Do you think they get any airtime at all? WSS |
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Hall of Famer |
mickey mouse pics? they only were able to run those pics after months of them being hid by the pentagon..
Nav you are right he should have tried harder on his own to find out more. The media and journalism in general is just not what is once was. They are big business and seemingly dont really care about helping or exposing the truth anymore, they care about 3 second soundbites and cutting to commercial. Steve if you use the terms "mickey mouse" when talking about Abu Ghraib you are an idiot. You would not think like that if those were american civilians and soldiers in those pics as the victims. I dont name call often but honestly your use of that terminology of the abuse they were recieving just shocks me. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Name call if it makes you feel better. This stuff gets constant front page coverage. The real torture didmemberment rape mutilation and the rest by the "insurgents" goes unheralded. Hell only "right wing" websites ran the beheadings. Our soldiers are punished and we won't even run the other sides offenses for fear of offending somebody. Sorry but a bag on the head and a fat chick pointing at a guys pecker is, well pick your own euphemism. WSS |
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Hall of Famer |
Steve you are justifying this behavior by pointing a finger at other barbaric acts done by criminals and thugs? We are supposed to be the CIVILIZED NATION and better by example. Its not what you say its what you do that matters. What we did was inhumane and criminal according to the agreed upon Geneva conventions and our own military code of conduct. I would guess you dont know what the military code of conduct is because just a guess you did not serve either.
Those soldiers and the NGO's at the direction of this administration broke international law and treaties as well as internal Military rules. Its the Laws that we follow is what defines us not what other countries/organizations actions are. We are a nation defined by laws and the constitution as well as international treaties specifically after ww2 about POW treatment. I know war is ugly, I know that deep down inside I have barbaric instincts when pushed far enough. The truth of existance is measured by what we do in difficult situations not when it is easy. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Steve, when I think you can't disappoint me any worse... you do. Your hard line conviction to accepting and apologizing for anything this shitty and embarrassing regime has done over the past eight years defies any and all reason.
You view the world with contempt, which could be a nice start if you were a revolutionary. Instead, you devote your time and effort to grabbing your own ankles and asking for more. This is like the hand gun "debate" (hand guns are bad and people have no business having them, and you have to start there): There really aren't two sides to the abuses in Abu Ghraib. It's wrong and it's horrible so there are only levels of disdain for it. Honestly, if someone is actually pro handgun, supportive of the Bush administration, and okey-dokey with torture? It's so seriously time for therapy and a few months in a quiet place. Because that's ****ed up. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
No Sev, I'm not. Not for a second. There's no excuse for humiliating prisoners for fun. What I'm saying is that on balance the real and horrific abuses are barely reported. Why? Because it seems more "hip" to rail at the US. So I think the whitewash is on the other fence. WSS |
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