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Snarling into 2008!!! Ring of Honor  |
Everyone points to the dismal approval rating of Pres. Bush (30% according to RCP) as a reason that the Democrats are all but a sure thing to win this coming fall. And the truth is, that is hard to argue. With a president suffering such a poor approval rating it should only follow that anyone the opposing party puts out there should have a cakewalk on the way to the presidency...or any other post they run for...
...HOWEVER... ...the Democratic run Congress now has an approval rating of 17.5% (again according to RCP). That actually makes the 30% by Bush look good, even impressive. Keep in mind, also, that even with the BUMP Obama got from finally winning the Democratic nomination, he is leading the enigmatic (boring according to some) McCain by a mear 4 points. This may end up being a landslide as predicted...but I personally believe it is anything but decided right now...and there will be a lot of answers required of BOTH parties/nominees before the American poeple make their decision...and for once I am hoping they chose according to the answers and not according to party lines!!! |
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Hall of Famer |
The dems from congress have a valid argument that Bush and the Republicans dont. Presidential Veto. Republican filibusters. That is why the Dems cant get anything done because they dont have the numbers to override a veto or a filibuster plain and simple.
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Hall of Fame Legend |
Apparently 82.5% of Americans arent buying that excuse. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
Then again perhaps they should produce some of these brave initiatives so as to force the lurking filibusters and vetoes to show the public how their heroism has been thwarted. WSS |
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Hall of Famer |
well the general public, have you ever watched letterman when he goes out into the general public and asks basic questions. We are lucky if they know where the capital of their state is.
You know its true Tupa that a dem congress who does not have the numbers will NEVER get anything accomplished with Bush jr. You also know Tupa that this is a "political chess match" The republicans are going to be obstructionists in order to "sell" the public on a anemic "dem controlled congress" to gain back seats. Using the "general public" as a litmus test on government is not a good basis for an argument concerning federal or state government. It was a nice try but the logic of the masses versus the realities of government does not match. |
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Hall of Famer |
Steve they already have tried with the war and its funding at least twice now. They have tried on many issues only to get shot down in the senate and or a presidential veto threat made to the public by the admin.
Why spin their wheels on useless work when they are betting on a dem white house? They are just biding their time like the republicans did. You can stop being partisan and acknowledge the obstrustionist and veto tactics used against the Dems in congress. Its basic political leverage 101. The dems do it when they are in the same minority position in congress just like the republicans are doing now. Same tactics from the republicrats. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
No one here is claiming that Congress is doing a good or bad job. The point was that low approval ratings could be a bad thing come election time. That same general public that shouldnt be the "litmus test on government" is the one that will decide the election in November. |
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Snarling into 2008!!! Ring of Honor |
based on that argument the negative numbers for Bush are also invalid! And it could be argued that the initiatives that Bush tries to get done are blocked by the Democratic controlled congress. Sorry, but that is a neither here nor there argument. Besides, this is a democracy and there is no requirement to be knowledgeable on topics in order for your vote to count. |
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Hall of Famer |
Tupa they wont connect the Dem "controlled" congress to a democratic president.
This is just republican political tactics to try to shed the dems in a negative light. The general public as uneducated as a lot of them are will blame Bush and his Adm over congress. |
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Snarling into 2008!!! Ring of Honor |
Sev, no matter who is doing what...the question I posed was does the PERCEPTION of the DEMOCRATIC Congress doing a bad job make this election closer than many predict? Face it, PERCEPTION is often more important than reality, and no matter what the reality is in this case...the public perceives the Democratic led Congress as doing a significantly WORSE job than Bush. Does this make the election a toss up? |
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Hall of Famer |
Dawg that is not correct, Bush has changed laws to give themselves to do pretty much whatever they wanted. Bush used his presidential authority to send us to war.
Bush did not need congress to be an anemic leader over Katrina, or make his bad speeches. Bush did not need congress on his international diplomacy policies or appointments to the justice system (remember gonzales?) Cheney committed treason and did not need help from congress. The wars drain on the economy along with oil instability from invading iraq and pissing on Iran is all Bush and no the congress. Bush/rove and Cheney/rumsfeld/libby are all massively unpopular on their own and has nothing to do with congress. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
What are talking about? These poll numbers are real, and show up no matter which party is asking the questions. WPB isnt trying to affect the election here; he is just pointing out some poll numbers that he personally thinks are relevant. If you dont think they will have much bearing, thats fine, but I didnt realize that posting on this message board qualified as political tactics. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Sev, that is exactly correct.  WSS |
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Hall of Famer |
Yes Dawg and the republicans are the ones trying to push this perception as a marketing tool.
It wont override the economy and war which is all linked to Bush. The republicans cant run away from bush enough especially mccain and his occupation policies are linked with Bush. This wont be enough to overcome guantanomo/torture/war/bad economics/increased gas prices/increased health care costs/more manufacturing job loss/increased food prices. The dems can link almost all of these to the republican leadership, it may not be always accurate but they already are doing it. |
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Snarling into 2008!!! Ring of Honor |
Again Sev...not sure what you are riled up about.
The question was, does the poor PUBLIC OPINION of Bush (30% approval) get outweighed by the disastrous PUBLIC OPINION of the Democratic led Congress (17.5% approval) in the coming election, and therefore allow McCain to be on more of an even footing in the coming election? I don't care about track records! I don't care who did what! I don't care why people think the way they do! I am just asking if this is a real problem for Obama and the Democratic party! ps: I am well aware of who did what, why, and how people generally think (led by their party or news outlet of their choice, lemmings). |
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Hall of Famer |
Tupa come on, you know that polling is used by both parties as a political tool. That polling was simple in its form and does not equate to complicated analyzing of how this will effect voting toward the presidential race.
If this poll was worded specifically for how this is linked toward the presidential race than it is one thing. But polling for approval on a anemic congress that is hamstrung by Bush and his veto threats on anything contrary is just news fodder. Fine since dawg brought up RCP polls than here is the link to that page. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/ Congress typically receives the lowest approval ratings of the three branches. Since the beginning of Bush's presidency, Congress has averaged 39% approval source: http://www.gallup.com/poll/108010/Bush-Congress-Supreme...al-Low-Approval.aspx |
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Hall of Famer |
DAwg I am not riled up in any way. I just dont think congressional approval especially with the Bush adm which is widely accepted (even the lemmings) in obstructionists in every way to anything contrary to their wishes will effect the presidential race.
I think some wishful republicans hope that it might... but I think that is a pipe dream. I am not happy with the Dems in congress I think they did the absolute least they could. Than again the republicans played the same crap over again to. I hate the two party system because by simple numerical logic it creates deadlock. The supreme court is set up with an odd number to create movement one way or the other. This is just one of those logical connundrums that I dont understand and irritate me. I am not really blaming the Republicans because this is exactly what they should do to regain seats. Our two party system is stupid plain and simple. I would not want more than three parties. At least with three parties we would actually see movement one way or the other. |
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Snarling into 2008!!! Ring of Honor |
Personally, I wish we could get rid of 'parties' all together...because whenever you have an organization involved it means that the propogation of that organization and its ideology will always come first and to heck with what is really needed by the American people...but it is far more likely to get a legit third party started than abolishment of the 'old party' system we have in place. Oh well...both suck on their own...but together they are a veritable black hole. And I KNOW that the Reps are using this data...just like the Dems are using the low ratings of Bush...so it still comes down to how it affects the election. With Obama only leading by 4 points even after supposedly consolidating the Dem party...this may be a very interesting election. I just hope it means WE get some real info and some real movement instead of the candidates slowly assimilating into their party rhetoric. |
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Hall of Famer |
I am a negative skeptic when it comes to the terms "government and change".
Obama is interesting and has the intelligence that we have been missing with Bush but I just dont know if his rhetoric will meet with reality. I hope IF he gets into office that he does not do exactly as you said dawg. He might assimilate back into party rhetoric. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
WB, I think that's a thin thread of hope. Yes, America is unhappy with its government overall the past eight years. Most of that was Bush's Administration and a Republican Congress.
For a year or so, it's been a very thin Dem majority, or not at all thanks to a coma and Lieberman. And the dissatisfaction with Congress isn't just at the half that are Democrats. It's with the whole lot of them and their inability to get anything changed... which leads us back to Bush. The truth is that 82 percent of the country says we're moving in the wrong direction and 72 percent DISAPPROVE of Bush, the worst rating in recorded history. Bush's War gets the disapproval of somewhere between the two, somewhere close to 80 percent. Congress is expected to get more Dem, not less. On paper, according to top historians, McCain doesn't have a prayer. But we know that's never the case in a pretty evenly divided partisan nation. Of course McCain has a chance so long as about half of America is Republican. Right now, on today's poll (ABC and some big paper), it's 48-42 Obama, hardly a huge lead. I expect it to rise as the Hillary backers migrate, and it appears that they will (according to an LA Times poll). But don't fool yourself: It's as negative of an environment as any Republican could possibly face. Epic. |
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