|
Go
 |
New
|
Find
|
Tools
|
Reply
|
|
|
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
I'd think Tupa's stats may be fine. There's certainly something uplifting about believing that when you die you're going to go to a wonderful place where you get to meet God and reunite with all of your relatives -- or should I say, "loved ones." Relatives aren't always so wonderful. Except in heaven, when that drunk asshole uncle of yours is magically transformed into a kinder, gentler version of Wink Martindale. Or maybe he's just not there because he's in hell. I never quite figured out how that worked.
Believing that death is the end of your existence, similar to how you were before you were born, and that you simply go into the ground and decompose like so many organisms before you isn't exactly reassuring stuff. Which, of course, helps explain why the former is more popular than the latter. The question is whether you think the beliefs are worth believing, no matter how good they make you feel. Do you think it's true or not? So no, I don't think my agnosticism makes me happier necessarily. But at least I don't feel like I'm deluding myself anymore. |
|||
|
|
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Whether I actively choose to be open minded but not at all decided on the God thing is irrelevant... down deep, it's how I feel. I can't just tell myself it's true and call it a happy, shiny day.
When I hear or see God, I'll believe there's a God. There's really no way to definitely prove there isn't. |
|||
|
|
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Josie Maran does give me pause, I do admit.
|
|||
|
|
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
http://images.askmen.com/galleries/model/josie-maran/pi...-maran-picture-6.jpg
Yeah, I take it all back. |
|||
|
|
Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
Only if the pope infallibilty thing is part of your religion. If it isn't it doesn't matter what he says. About anything. WSS |
|||
|
|
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
So can you be Catholic and not believe in demonic possession, Steve?
|
|||
|
|
Hall of Famer |
Arguing religion is almost as stupid as arguing politics. Your going to believe what you want, and I will believe what I want. A never ending cycle of trying to prove each other wrong. Since I know I'm going to heaven, and you leftie agnostics/atheists are all going to hell, that is the end of the story. Lefties are all communists. They all listen to John Lennon's "Imagine all the people" and believe it. I'm going to listen to some Led Zepplin and hit the rack.
|
|||
|
|
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Wow. That is some top-notch right-wing cant.
Beat that, Cal! |
|||
|
AFC North Player of the Month |
Heck, very pithy and entertaining as usual. Also, way to evade my point. I'm not sad for you because you don't agree with me or believe the same things I do. I'm sad for you because you seem so NEGATIVE when it comes to faith issues and so closed to the possibility that maybe, juts MAYBE, you are totally wrong in your thinking. You post negative and often snide comments about anything that relates to faith or the belief in a higher power. You are not willing to seriously discuss or consider these issues because YOU have decided you are right and so there's nothing else to discuss. In short, I'm sad because you CHOOSE to BELIEVE in YOURSELF over ANYTHING ELSE. And I just think that is too bad. I think it's too bad when people with great intelligence and intellectual ability choose to believe THEMSELVES ALONE over thousands and thousands of years of collective experience and wisdom. As you say, no human being knows definitively what comes after this life. But we all get to choose how we live this life, every moment we are here. And if there are other viewpoints, other possibilities, that can make us better, shouldn't we explore that? Shouldn't we see where that goes? That's what faith is all about, to me, being open to exploring the vast unknown with an open mind, certainly, but also with an open HEART and SOUL. And sometimes I don't think you are open to the possibilities, heck. And that's why I said I was sad. |
|||
|
|
AFC North Player of the Month |
Shep, I don't think heck is troubled because he chooses not to believe in the hard-to-believe stuff. It is, after all, pretty hard to believe. That's where that crazy thing called faith comes in.  No, I sometimes think he's troubled only in that he's not willing to discuss the ESSENTIALLY HUMAN parts of Christianity, the parts that are actually really EASY to believe and quite important for living the good life. He throws the baby out with the bathwater too frequently, methinks. Anyway, as I hope I've made clear, I don't dislike you or heck for not agreeing with my point of view and I certainly don't think either of you are unhappy or bad people. I'm sure we'd get along great and have excellent discussions over beers and hope to see that happen at a Browns tailgate someday. I would disagree with your last sentence though. I think there's a direct correlation between PRACTICING your faith and being that kind or good person. This is another area that I think you and heck too quickly overlook in your haste to bring up the supernatural. Jesus came not only as God but as man. He was quintessentially human and spoke in very human terms. In fact, one could argue that the most "superhuman" part of him was his EXTREME HUMANITY. Christ's challenge to humanity was to to BE BETTER. Faith, hope, love. Sacrifice, humility, service. You don't think practicing these things will make you a better person? |
|||
|
|
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Sure. What does that have to with faith? I can believe that love and humility and sacrifice and work and service and compassion and forgiveness are all wonderful things, and do. I don't see how it obliges me to believe that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. Or that Mohammed did, for that matter.
So I'll do my best to practice them the same as you. Also, I don't see how lack of religious faith means that somehow I: - don't get to choose how I live my life, and every moment that I'm here. - don't get to open myself up to other viewpoints, other possibilities, that can make us better. - can't explore the vast unknown with an open mind, certainly, but also with an open HEART and SOUL. - am not willing to seriously discuss or consider these issues - choose to believe in myself over everything else In fact, I find that not having the religion I inherited from my parents opens me up a lot more than when I had it. As for the essentially human parts of Christianity, isn't that my point, not yours? I'm all for the lessons of Christ. They're wonderful human lessons about love, forgiveness, caring for those less fortunate, etc. I just don't choose to believe that doing so earns me some posthumous reward, or that it'll allow me to survive my own death. I think it's worth doing because it's the more humane thing to do. So I'm not throwing out that baby with the bathwater at all. I'm throwing out the idea that Jesus was God's son and he walked on water. And suggesting that I take those unbelievable things on "faith" doesn't help make them any more believable. |
|||
|
|
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
I think we have a lot to agree on, Heck and Dama. And so I don't prattle, that's why I go to Catholic church every Sunday at 5, make sandwiches, pick up clothes at people's houses and help put them on the back of trucks, encourage my daughter to stick with Habitat, drop my son off at an old folks' home every other week, and more.
Most of it through the church. So you get my point. We're together on that part. But I absolutely feel like organized religion and imposed belief (via mantras) in the unbelievable either explicitly or implicitly tells us to stop thinking and just take it. When you break those bonds and say, "I have no way of knowing that what is written or said really happened and no logical reason to believe it did," you do open up to a whole universe of possibilities. Not just those from one dogma. Can I believe there's a God when there's been no evidence of a God in modern history? No miracles, no communication, no lessons or advice, no last second saves? That's tough. If there's literally a single sentient, omnipotent, benevolent God, you just have to think he/she would say or do something once n a while, if only to clear things up a little. It's tough to buy. But I like all the better concepts of most religions, the ones Heck listed. |
|||
|
|
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Which don't require religion.
|
|||
|
| Previous Topic | Next Topic | powered by eve community | Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
|||
| Site | CLEVELAND SPORTS FORUM | ||
| Servlet | eve2da013 | ||
| Version | 1.2.22 build 9062 | ||
| Module | Forums 4.0.3 | ||
| Stylesheet | "Groupee" | ||
| Wordlet Set | "Default Wordlet Set" | ||
|
Designed by: CreAtens