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Hall of Fame Legend
Picture of Legacy Fan
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The short answer, is yes.

The long answer, and part of what I was trying to say in my previous post is that I don't believe it is the "ritual" that "does the trick."
 
Posts: 2453 | Location: Virginia | Registered: Fri August 03 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
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Okay, there's one vote for the legitimacy of demonic possession.

Anyone else?
 
Posts: 7554 | Registered: Wed September 28 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
Picture of Westside Steve
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quote:
Do you believe that the devil, or demons, can possess your body - or your soul?


Me?
Probably not but I don't know.
I'm not positive that there is or isn't a God who wants me to follow His plan.
Or a hell or who may live there.

And I don't constantly spew my hatred of those who think so if they don't join my party of choice.

That answer ya??
WSS


WSS[/b]
 
Posts: 5270 | Location: Norton Ohio USA | Registered: Mon September 15 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
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This has nothing to do with his party, and I don't hate him.

I'm just not a fan of fundamentalist beliefs. Perhaps he now disavows this type of stuff. But someone should ask him, and I suspect that they will.

I wouldn't want a Democrat with fundamentalist religious beliefs in The White House either.
 
Posts: 7554 | Registered: Wed September 28 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
Picture of Westside Steve
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quote:
I wouldn't want a Democrat with fundamentalist religious beliefs in The White House either.



Well not unless he was running.
WSS
 
Posts: 5270 | Location: Norton Ohio USA | Registered: Mon September 15 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
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Well, if you can name me a Democrat on the national stage, or in Congress, whatever, who believes these types of things, I'm all ears. Though I suspect that you can't.

And Legacy, we've got a couple thousand years of recorded history. Is there a confirmed case of demonic possession you can cite? Anything that wouldn't better be explained by mental illness? On what do you base your belief in demonic possession?
 
Posts: 7554 | Registered: Wed September 28 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
mz
Bring back JoeSixPack
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quote:
Originally posted by Westside Steve:
quote:
I wouldn't want a Democrat with fundamentalist religious beliefs in The White House either.



Well not unless he was running.
WSS


That's just cheap, Steve. Is that how you feel? You'd vote for someone who's beliefs run contrary to your own just because he's a member of the party you "support"? I doubt it, or I would hope not. Be ashamed of saying something like that to an intelligent person.
 
Posts: 2592 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: Sun April 29 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
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There are certain things where the two parties aren't "damned if you do, damned it you don't."

Religious fundamentalism is certainly one of them. That belongs to the Republicans as a political strategy.

Goofy news networks (terrorist fist jab!) and blowharded, racist, sexist, homophobic shock jocks. Republicans own that. They do the loudmouthing, not the Democrats. There's no tit-for-tat smear machine.

Being in bed with Big Oil, Big Medicine, and Big Auto is a Republican thing for sure. They make up about 95 percent of the lobbyist busts. If you don't like politicians employed by Big Money, it's tough to vote Republican.

Finally, blind support of all things military, because sometimes you just gotta put your boot up someone's ass. WHOOOO! USA! USA!

Lost it a little on that one, but the "support our troops" rouse belongs to the Republicans, too.

What bugs me about Dems? Abortion and pork, mostly. And Reid and Pelosi.
 
Posts: 22508 | Registered: Sat September 13 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
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Let's just try and stay on topic here, mz. Let's not make this about Steve.

This is about Jindal and whether beliefs like this should be worrisome for someone who is already in a very prominent position of power, and on a short list for vice president.

Now, I'd think to answer that question we'd need to have some sort of comment from him in order to determine whether or not these are beliefs he still holds, or something he couldn't explain at age 22, but can now, etc. But he refused to comment.

I, for one, would like to hear more. This is the stuff of madness.
 
Posts: 7554 | Registered: Wed September 28 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
mz
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My take on Jindal is that he's a brilliant guy. I really hope he doesn't believe in intelligent design as he purports to, but is merely pandering to the fundamentalist clowns that seem to dictate his party's logic just to fit in better.

Either that, or he has some "interesting" beliefs...
 
Posts: 2592 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: Sun April 29 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
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He's a bright guy for sure. And that's what worries me. If he were just some TV preacher it would just be funny. But he's the governor of Louisiana and a rising star in the party.

And I don't see how this could be pandering, unless he was pandering 14 years in advance. Pandering wouldn't worry me so much either.

Judging from the article, this was clearly a momentous experience for him. "I left that night with a reaffirmed faith in God's power over any force in or out of this world."

I never thought a potential vice president would be writing stuff like this, at least in earnest: "I began to think that the demon would only attack me if I tried to pray or fight back."

In his debut sci-fi novel, maybe. But that's not what this is.
 
Posts: 7554 | Registered: Wed September 28 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Famer
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Yeah, it's a bit surprising that all of this happened at Brown University.

You wouldn't think there'd be many Ivy Leaguers performing (and receiving) exorcisms.
 
Posts: 1743 | Registered: Tue January 29 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
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I know. But it's not even that. Exorcism is a specific rite performed by priests under specific circumstances and specific places.

This a bunch of post-grads in a dorm room.

I'd really love to hear that this is a hoax, or from an exercise in a creative writing class. Anything.
 
Posts: 7554 | Registered: Wed September 28 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Some interesting points are made about Jindal here:
quote:
The exorcism performed on Susan, which included the use of a crucifix and a Bible and Mr. Jindal’s repetition of the Hail Mary, is not conventional or acceptable in the Catholic Church. This is one of the main reasons Mr. Jindal does not want people to read this essay; he participated in an incredibly important religious ritual outside of Church law and protocol.

But this is not the only reason Mr. Jindal and his campaign have already attempted “damage control” concerning this thirteen-year-old essay. The essay also reveals what Bobby Jindal was like three [years] before he became swept into a wave of political appointments. He was distant, nervous, and sometimes emotionally unavailable, particularly around his friend Susan. He was having trouble reconciling his traditional beliefs with the beliefs of his new friends in college, and compounded with that, Mr. Jindal was also struggling to understand the differences between the beliefs and practices of evangelical or “charismatic” Christians and the beliefs and practices his newly-adopted Catholicism. For many college-aged people, religious and existential crises are par for the course, but for Mr. Jindal, his crisis was multifaceted and unique. It was not simply a crisis of religion; it was a crisis of identity. He was raised a Hindu but believed in Catholicism. His parents had wanted him to become a doctor, and even though he did not share their plans for his life, he still earned a degree in biology.
 
Posts: 1743 | Registered: Tue January 29 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
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quote:
And Legacy, we've got a couple thousand years of recorded history. Is there a confirmed case of demonic possession you can cite? Anything that wouldn't better be explained by mental illness? On what do you base your belief in demonic possession?


Better for who? The patient's family? So they won't have to walk around with that guy as the stigma of their family. Better for the doctor perhaps, who can now say, "well, we can't completely treat it right now, but we'll work on it, and surely it can be treated, because it couldn't possibly be something crazy like a demon or something," so he can feel better about himself/his profession?

How would you confirm demonic possession? How would you confirm mental illness? It's not like ghostbusters where we can trap the things.

It would certainly take a bit of research & time to hunt down links to reported cases of "demonic posessions & exorcisms," but I have read more than just Jindal's.

One common theme in these events that are interesting to me, and perhaps aid in my belief that they exist, is that there is difficulty for the afflicted person to physically acknowledge Jesus as Lord (whether you believe that or not). Like in Jindal's essay the woman couldn't even get the words out. The afflicted person doesn't seem to react to the relics/ rituals.
Also, whereas the (very Catholic) notion that the crucifix, or Bible, or holy water, or whatever relic/ritual is the responsible party in the healing/curing draws the most attention, I believe that it's the faith and belief in God that does the "magic."
It's very hard for me to explain this. Perhaps I'll defer to Preacher should he decide to chime in.
 
Posts: 2453 | Location: Virginia | Registered: Fri August 03 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
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quote:
How would you confirm demonic possession? How would you confirm mental illness? It's not like ghostbusters where we can trap the things.


Where I was going with this was I think that a Priest, Pastor, Reverend, Theologian, would have just as much schooling and expertise in dealing with demonic posession and spirituality as a Psychologist, or psychiatrist would have in dealing with the mind/ mental illness/ mental health.
 
Posts: 2453 | Location: Virginia | Registered: Fri August 03 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
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quote:
...in an incredibly important religious ritual outside of Church law and protocol.


Alo, I'd take issue with that part. Exorcism is not an "incredibly important religious ritual" in the modern-day Catholic Church. It's rarely used, and mostly ignored.

That's even in the movie!

Chris: If a person was possessed by a demon of some kind, how do you go about getting an exorcism?
Father Karras: Well, the first thing I'd do is put them into a time macine and send them back to the 16th century.
Chris: I didn't get you?
Father Karras: Well it just doesn't happen anymore Mrs. MacNeil.
Chris: Oh yeah, since when?
Father Karras: Since we learned about mental illness, paranoia, schizophrenia.

Ah, great flick.
 
Posts: 7554 | Registered: Wed September 28 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Famer
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Jindal is clearly a bright guy, but I think it's important not to elect people with fundamentalist religious beliefs, especially when they try and promote those in the public arena. (Sev talked about this in another forum.) And with respect to this episode, I think Jindal has got some real explaining to do.


Because religion is only followed by billions? Kennedy was a catholic, when him and bobby were tag teaming Marilyn they yelled "God bless the Pope". They were dems. You lefties always conveniently ridicule anyone with faith. Unless they are black.
 
Posts: 1710 | Location: Cuyahoga County | Registered: Mon September 18 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters
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And Legacy, we certainly can confirm mental illness, and do it daily and all the time. We diagnose people with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, epilepsy, multiple personality disorder, etc.

It's the greater (yet still very incomplete) understanding we have of how the brain functions, or doesn't function, that allows us to understand what's really going on in people that exhibit types of behavior that in the distant past were chalked up to "demonic possession."

I also find it funny that supposed "demonic possession" usually takes the form of vulgar language and a sulfur smell.

He's the Prince of Darkness, ruler of the underworld, but all he can really muster is to force you say "f*ck" and "shit" and make you smell like a fart.

That's some devil.
 
Posts: 7554 | Registered: Wed September 28 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Hall of Fame Legend
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quote:
And Legacy, we certainly can confirm mental illness, and do it daily and all the time. We diagnose people with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, epilepsy, multiple personality disorder, etc.

It's the greater (yet still very incomplete) understanding we have of how the brain functions, or doesn't function, that allows us to understand what's really going on in people that exhibit types of behavior that in the distant past were chalked up to "demonic possession."


I understand the leaps made in science, but essentially we've renamed & categorized. We do not understand why the brain functions or does not function. We can measure levels of different chemicals, electrical & magnetic activity, but they still are not diagnosing nor understanding "why?"

Doctors are still diagnosing & treating symptoms albeit more specific ones and with more extreme precision.

Demonic posession doesn't sound as professional either. Tutions are expensive, dammit.
 
Posts: 2453 | Location: Virginia | Registered: Fri August 03 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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