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SPORTS BOARD Political Discussion What should the Federal government's role in education be?
SPORTS BOARD Political Discussion What should the Federal government's role in education be?|
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Hall of Fame Legend |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
If the America is the parent company or corporate umbrella, there has to be quality control and you can't have authority without responsibility. Basic education at the primary level is the bedrock of any nation's long-term future AND a way to avoid a permanent and very pissed off underclass.
Funding and policing. Otherwise you end up with an enormous disparity and any sense that fairness plays into the American experience is lost. |
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Hall of Famer |
I pretty much agree with you, Shep. Any interesting side bar (at least for me). My father in law spent all of his life on the public dole - as Professor at both University of Wisconsin - Madison and at UCONN. As one would expect, he is very liberal and is a big proponent of government programs, social engineering, etc. FDR is his hero. This being said, he believes that the Federal Government, in his own works, 'has no business sticking its nose into Education'. In his opinion, education is strictly a local issue. At the same time, he is against any type of standardized testing and pay-for-performance for teachers. He doesn't believe that you can hold teachers accountable for student performance in the same way that you can hold a business manager accountable for his direct reports. I always looked at his view as a classic case of 'not in my back yard'. I agree with you that having an educated population is the bedrock of society, the economy, etc. Of course, in alignment with other things. However, a 'bare bones' need and requirement. Perhaps, 'No Child Left Behind' is not the right mode. But, at least, it is a start in my opinion. I do believe that taxpayers also deserve to gauge - even remotely - that their tax dollars are not being pithed out the window. I am open to a variety of models - I would like to learn about more models - but strongly believe that the Federal Government has a vested interest in having an educated populous and, therefore, is a stakeholder in the process. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
I actually believe in the converse of that which is why they absolutely want to remain a "stakeholder in the process." Otherwise, the fed would back a voucher system. They can still have stake in setting standards, goals, etc. But let "the populous" decide where to be educated. |
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Hall of Famer |
>>I actually believe in the converse of that which is why they absolutely want to remain a "stakeholder in the process." Otherwise, the fed would back a voucher system. They can still have stake in setting standards, goals, etc. But let "the populous" decide where to be educated.>>
They are too tied to Teacher's and other Municipial-like labor unions. They support public schools and send their kids to private schools. Like I said, they don't walk the talk. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
Agree totally. Letting me decide where I send my kids would hold "their system" accountable.
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Hall of Famer |
I pretty much agree with shep on this one. Chicopee I am in complete disagreement with your inlaw however.
Expectation of performance and a quality controll check for productivity in an area that is important and influential like teaching definately needs to be mandatory. Good teachers deserve to be rewarded and have incentives like any other job and responsibility. Likewise lazy, ineffective teachers need to be weeded out and identified. Children can be effected lifetime and even influence their own children massively by what and how they are taught. I think everybody that knows someone who had a bad experience with some teacher in a mathematics course or whatever that forever changed their direction and attitude about certain subjects. The cold reality of the world is a bunch of competing societies expressed thru finances and technological innovations that protect and provide services for populations. The competitive advantage that 1st world nations have over 2nd and 3rd world nations is the numerical percentage of populaces that work with each other and "innovate" in many different ways. If we want to stay relevant and competitive than education is the key and therefore IMHO should be a national security priority in some ways and therefor the government needs to be extremely actively involved. |
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Hall of Famer |
>>I pretty much agree with shep on this one. Chicopee I am in complete disagreement with your inlaw however.>>
Me too. About the only thing we agree on is that he has a great daughter. PS He also likes to drink beer. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
In defense of the teaching community I don't really agree. In any given school system there are probably poorly performing schools and top noth ones. The teachers, I wager, are just about equal. (My guess is 25% inspirational 25% suck and 50% average) So the guy at Buchtel and Barberton (pretty bad schools) is going to have a lot less success than the guy at Cuyahoga Falls and Norton (pretty good schools). I say if you switch the entire staff you'll get similar results. I guess you need standards but if I taught at JFK I'd be pissed off that the Hudson guys got bonuses. WSS |
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Hall of Famer |
>>I say if you switch the entire staff you'll get similar results. I guess you need standards but if I taught at JFK I'd be pissed off that the Hudson guys got bonuses.>>
And there in lies the dilemma. You are right on, Steve, in my opinion. Maybe a better solution would be to focus on the 'Tenure' acheivement process rather on the more common focus on improving test scores. Remember, a business can fire a bad employee. A school cannot fire a student who does bad things. LOLOLOL You can't say 'bad kid' any more. |
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Hall of Famer |
I agree steve but I dont think the answer is necessarily to focus on standardized test scores. Onsite random auditors maybe or a sliding scale system on test based upon localities.
Just because their are different social groups in different regions that generally scew the average mean does not mean that teachers should not be held accountable or fairly bonused based upon teaching skills, work ethic etc. There are ways to make a system more fairly balanced. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
Nothing.
Education is the domain of the states, but as usual, the Fed thinks it knows best. |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Another red herring is teachers training. I'm positive that some even without a bachelors can teach if they enjoy it. While a masters is no guarantee at all. Hey if I gotta teach tricks I'll take border collies and give the other teacher cats. We'll see who gets the bonus.  WSS WSS[/b] |
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NFL Starter |
Yep. The other problem is all the crap that a person has to go through to be a teacher... they get stuck with 4 years of college to be a teacher, more work at a master's level at times... then teach in subjects they NEVER TOOK IN COLLEGE. I believe that schools should be able to higher part time teachers from the community with minimal teaching training. Who can teach chemistry better? the masters student in education that remembers taking chemistry in highschool... or the Dow chemicals Scientist who works with chemicals every day? Give him the job with 20 hours training on how to work with teenagers and 20 hours training on teaching methodology (which he has already had at a Ph.D. seminar--mandatory for Ph.D. programs). There are a whole lot of issues that can be solved by bringing in some outside help in education... but of course... it will never happen, because the teachers union will be weakened. |
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Hall of Famer |
Preacher I disagree somewhat, I think that having a 4 year well rounded education with a specialization in the specific field for highschool instruction is completely suitable.
Most of the basic education prior to 9th grade does not take a specialization in those fields. If you have a bachelors you should be able to do mathematics to at least a precalculas level and have a grasp on basic chemistry,history etc. Having a bachelors is also about dicipline and achievements along with setting goals and learning how to learn subjects that you dont necessarily like which is an important factor for pre highschool curriculum. The teachers as a whole can teach to varying levels of success, we need to identify the weak ones and either cull them or make them better by making them change their attitudes or tactics. I really dont think that the curriculum is all that hard or demanding enough personally. Than again I am not a fan of the basic highschool diploma anyways. You are right there definately could be a restructuring in highschools and college's to more focus on specific fields especially in college. |
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FRONT PAGE SPORTS BOARD Political Discussion What should the Federal government's role in education be?
SPORTS BOARD Political Discussion What should the Federal government's role in education be?Designed by: CreAtens