Monroe County (NY) spent $15,578 per student K-12 in 2005. The cost has increased since then, but I dont have the final numbers. If the government announced that it would begin paying $13,000 per student in 2010, offering repayment of start-up costs for schools that met certain criteria, and vigorously monitoring the education the kids received, how many high quality private schools do you think would sprout up?

My guess is very many.

I would agree. (regarding the question you posed.)

I like the idea of vouchers very much. I like the idea of choice. Choice for education, choice for health care.
(I hate to bring this healthcare in this thread, but isn't the failure of the public school system enough of a reason not to hand over totalitarian control of our health to the federal government? Even with the extra price of choice* - much like the supreme almighty French healthcare system - the public school system is in shambles).

*Meaning that I am still required to pay taxes to send my kids to public school, so the government is still receiving that money, without the physical cost of my child attending if sent to private school. And they still can't get it right.

My apologies in advance, Toop, if this turns into healthcare again. I'll delete my post if it does.

I tend to be on the more liberal side of things, but I absolutely agree about school vouchers--I loved my high school years, I loved my high school, but there's obviously something wrong with the fact that as soon as I started an MA program, I had more schooling than about 98% of my graduating class.

Milton Friedman pointed out that education is the most difficult inequality to fix. You want a nice car? Just spend less on other things. You want nice shoes? Eat spaghetti for a few months. You want your kids to get the best education? Well, now you're in a fix. You need to live in the right area--if you want your kid to go to one of the better public schools--or you need to make a major investment in tuition to a private, which you might not have in the long term.

I like public schools, I support them, and I believe passionately that they should be funded. But they should also face competition from private and charter schools. I'm sympathetic to the argument, "let's fix the public schools rather than abandoning them," but I also believe that it's incredibly hypocritical for people to make that argument when they wouldn't send their kids to the more problematic public schools.

Dennis

the voucher system would be a win win for everybody.

the no kid left behind is a big loser for all of our kids.
Example A: my son who now attends a Nice college in Berea (BW)had straight A's thru middle and high school. but when he had taken his SAT test, he scored just average. So as a father, i asked questions about how they were tested and how the teachers were handing out homework assignments. and what it has come down to if you failed a test in high school or didn't like the score you and the whole class would be given back your tests and were alowed to change your answers while using your notes and open book. he also told me that most of the time teachers would leave the room and let the students copy from one another.

Example B: my son inlaw teaches at a school in Reynoldsburg, he told me of one particular student (who is repeating the same grade) had failed at the end of the year. well with the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND rule he has to fill out a form explaining why the student has failed two years in a row. he simply stated this student was incomplete on all homework and that he refused to study for his final exam. the principal sent the form back and told him that this wasn't a good enough reason to fail him, and please redo the form. So he tookout a Red Marker and wrote all the way acrossed it that HE IS LAZY! And handed it back in. the schoolbaord still sent the kid on to High School. What a Shame!

I agree Steve, but it still wouldn't hurt to send the kids to a school where the teachers/admin/board cared also.

Good point.

And in a situation where you have less caring admin/ school boards, I bet there is a higher percentage of teachers who care and will expect & get a little more out of their students - leading to those aforementioned success stories.

From the WSJ:

Democrats for School Choice
May 19, 2008; Page A14

When Florida passed a law in 2001 creating the Corporate Tax Credit Scholarship Program for underprivileged students, all but one Democrat in the state legislature voted against it. Earlier this month, lawmakers extended the program – this time with the help of a full third of Democrats in the Legislature, including 13 of 25 members of the state's black caucus and every member of the Hispanic caucus. What changed?

Our guess is that low-income parents in Florida have gotten a taste of the same school choice privileges that middle- and upper-income families have always enjoyed. And they've found they like this new educational freedom. Under the scholarship program, which is means-tested, companies get a 100% tax credit for donations to state-approved nonprofits that provide private-school vouchers for low-income families.

The program already serves some 20,000 students. The expansion will allow it to assist an additional 6,000. It's no surprise that poor families would embrace educational options, given that their government-assigned schools are clearly failing their children. The high school graduation rate for black students in Florida is 45% overall, 38% for black males. The 52% graduation rate for Hispanics is also nothing to brag about...



My question: Any reason this shouldnt be expanded to more students in more states?

Tupa I knew there would be a topic sooner or later you and I would completely agree on.

The tax base system in each municipality will never be equal in what they contribute toward each school system. This is a great way for the private sector to help equalize this issue.

One note, I do think that a vast majority of parents leave it completely up to the schools to instruct and educate their children. Personally I think that is where a major portion of this problem lies. I know I take an extremely active role with my childrens education and that they have extra curriculum at home and in the summertime in addition to heavy oversight with their work at school. I will not leave it up to random teachers and or the school system, ultimately it is the parents responsibility at home to teach their children.

quote:

Originally posted by Westside Steve:

quote:

One note, I do think that a vast majority of parents leave it completely up to the schools to instruct and educate their children.

Also those who'd actually use the vouchers and take their kids to a better school that may be a bit less convenient are parents who care.
Those kids are already on the fast track.
WSS

You're probably right.

However, it is nice to allow parents to actually have choices while they raise their children.

quote:

Originally posted by Preacher:
However, it is nice to allow parents to actually have choices while they raise their children.

Not unlike the gay marriage thread, we are surprisingly in agreement on another issue.

I like the idea of private/charter schools to bring in (shock of all shocks) competition when it comes to education. It also allows people to put their kids into schools that, so long as they are able to get accreditation, cater (at least to an extent) to their wishes.

Dennis

quote:

Originally posted by Dencyguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Preacher:
However, it is nice to allow parents to actually have choices while they raise their children.

Not unlike the gay marriage thread, we are surprisingly in agreement on another issue.

I like the idea of private/charter schools to bring in (shock of all shocks) competition when it comes to education. It also allows people to put their kids into schools that, so long as they are able to get accreditation, cater (at least to an extent) to their wishes.

Dennis

LOL...

Here is why this whole discussion (national, not on this board) ticks me off. Everyone villifies the other side, yet, at the heart, I think everyone is really worried about educating the children.

SOme think it is better to do it in public schools and union teachers, some think it is better to do it in private schools and individually employed teachers... Some don't care how it is done, as long as they are educated.

As long as there is agreement on WHY people want it done a certain way... shouldn't we (the country) be able to have a civilized debate on it?