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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Oh, you said there was no denying that, so I guess I can't. You said so. It's the same as David Duke.
Or maybe you should listen to more of his sermons than just the ones they've excerpted, because they're full of that type of stuff. One of the funnier aspects of this is that so much of white America is always so stunned when they realize that much of inner city black community doesn't share the same proud, teary-eyed view of the country that they do. And they're simply stunned to learn such things. Stunned. And offended. Why wouldn't inner city blacks in Chicago not embrace America the same way we do? Things are so wonderful in Cabrini-Green. What are they bitching about? |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
You are right and listening to Rev Wright blame the white man is going to help them. Ever listen to Bill Crosby speak, personally I think he has the right idea. If you want respect get an education. Sorry but right now in my opinion the blame game is not going to help the problem. It is only going to create more excuses for the same thing.
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Nav, might I ask where you went to college?
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Nope, because we are not writting papars in here. We are discussing ideas and points of view. Also what does that have to do with it.
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Hall of Fame Legend |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Well, I ask because you said "If you want respect, get an education."
How about this: can you at least tell me if you went to college or not? |
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Skipper of the Lake Erie Booze Patrol Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters  |
Getting an education need not be a college degree, Heck. A high school diploma is within everyones reach. (and don't nitpick with the tiny fration of exceptions to that rule) WSS |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
I'm not saying it does. I'd just like to see something. I think he can at least answer this question. It's pretty simple.
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AFC North Player of the Month |
I graduated High School a year early at age 17, finished up the required credits I needed during summer school in beautiful Beaufot SC. Talk about your getting a leg up on college. Joined the Navy at 19, came in at as an E-1. When I was 25 I completed my Bachelors of Science, in three years. I was taking over a full course load, holding a full time job and learning how to be a father. At age 38 I completed my Masters, while still working a full time job. Did I use my Education benefits from the Navy, you bet that was one of the reasons I joined. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Good for you. You sound like my Dad.
Now, how much of that do you think you would have done if you were raised in Cabrini-Green? |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Again, do you have an idea where I grew or how. Any 19 year old can join the military and have the same deal. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
I don't have any idea. That's why I asked. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't Cabrini-Green.
And yes, any 19-year-old can join the military. I'm just asking: do you think it would be more or less likely that you would have taken that career path had you grown up in Cabrini-Green as opposed to where you did grow up? |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
Nature vs. nurture??? Uh oh....  |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
No, it's a simple question: would you have followed the same career path had you grown up in Cabrini-Green?
I can answer that easily. Absolutely, 100%, no-freaking-way. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
If he had the same parents or role models that instilled in him ideas that he could better himself with a little work, then "yes-freaking-way."
The likelyhood of those role models being available in Cabrini-Green are lower, obviously, which is the question you're really asking. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
It's a bit more complicated than that. You're talking about parents exclusively. How about the environment you grow up in there? What about the educational opportunities you have -- or more specifically, that you don't have? What if the best job opportunities you have aren't in the legal economy?
Nav said "If you want respect, get an education." In this country, the ability to do that depends in large part where you are and what kind of family you grew up with. It's just not that simple. And if you all ask yourself that question -- what would have happened to me if I grew up there -- it's pretty easy to see how things are a bit more complicated than to simply suggest that everyone needs to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Here's my Cabrini-Green guess: I'd be in the in and out of the system by now. I wasn't a particularly good student, but I had lots of family support and I was expected to go to college like everyone else in not just my family, but the town I grew up in. I was also eternally safe. You put someone like me in Cabrini-Green, without those support systems in place? Yup, I'd be in the system. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
I'd actually argue that in the city (Cabrini Green in this instance) there are more opportunities than in a rural area.
More opportunities for success. More opportunities for failure. But as for the personal question, given my same parents, regardless of good, decent, or crummy educational opportunities, my dad would have said, "School or Marines: you pick" like he did before. When I screwed up at home (and I did) I wasn't allowed to do school work. Pretty sweet punishment I thought, until I had to show up to class un-prepared. Luckily for me, I had just enough brain power to overcome it. Each poor grade was 1 step closer to having a drill sargeant scream in my face. I knew I wasn't cut out for that, so I did what I had to to not be unsuccessful in school. Got my licence 6 mos late b/c of grades. I was told it was a privelage, not a right. Leaving the house every morning in Va, or Cabrini, Dad would have given me the same instructions, I think. *edit*I get what you're saying though. But, I'd probably be in the system too regardless of where I grew up, if it weren't for my Dad being tough on me. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Right. In a solid majority of those cases there is no father. And that's not the kid's fault.
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Hall of Fame Legend |
I agree.
What the kid chooses to do with that situation will be though. (Fault or credit.) Back to my Dad- my Grandad was (heavy emphasis on was) a real SOB. Drove trucks 6 days a week, played pool in the Moose lodge 6 nights a week, and shoved around his wife in his free-time. Drank a lot. A lot. Dad saw that, knew it was wrong, and vowed not to follow in his path. Long->short: Dad never drank a drop, & put himself through college. Is a successful DDS & has afforded me plenty of opportunity & privelage to squander or use to my advantage. I'd say I used about 75% of what I could have. In reflection, I'm disappointed in myself over it as I sit here typing this. But currently am working to change/ correct that (despite the amount of my time spent on this board  .Definitely a good role model. Not trying to force feed you Christianity, but Jesus indicates that "the prides of sons are their fathers" (paraphrasing). So I've been pretty lucky. Dad wasn't but was determined to change it. Happy ending: I showed up & Grandad decided to become a human being. Too late for his marriage, but not for his kids. And Grandkids. And greatgrandkids. He's got a knack for making you feel like the favorite Grandchild. Pretty cool. I'm guessing a 20 yr process of getting to know Jesus played a role in it. |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
The question is not answerable. Would I have taken the same path if I had slept an hour later. So you are saying that no-one from that are enlists, damn, had a guy in bootcamp from there. Or that there are no other bad neighborhoods besides that. Don't think so. Or that you have lived a sheltered life and need to think that you need to help everyone. Might be more on it, oh and that is really not ment as an slam. |
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