Desert I still dont see what is this preacher has said that is so inflammatory and Anti-American??

You haven't seen all of the clips yet.

So you vote on flag pins and where he puts his hand when the anthem plays; on sentiment.

Good to know.

As for your comments, you're wrong. He's not distancing himself from his church, or even his pastor. He said he doesn't agree with his comments. In fact, he says he vehemently disagrees. But he also said this:

“I strongly condemn” Wright’s statements, but “I would not repudiate the man,” Obama said. “He’s been preaching for 30 years. He’s a man who was a former Marine, a biblical scholar, someone who’s spoken at theological schools all over the country.

“That’s the man I know,” Obama said. “That’s the man who was the pastor of this church.”

But Obama acknowledged that “there’s no doubt this is going to be used as political fodder, as it has been in the past.”

“What I hope is [that] what the American people will trust is what I believe,” he said, that “my values, my ideas, what I’ve spoke about in terms of bringing the country together will override a guilt by association.”

...You see, that last part is up to the voters. You've had months and months to listen to this man's message, piece through his policy proposals. But no, you're focusing on a few of his pastor's sermons from the last 20 years and some bogus flag pin nonsense.

Chalk one up for the political strategists.

quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
“That’s the man I know,” Obama said. “That’s the man who was the pastor of this church.”

But Obama acknowledged that “there’s no doubt this is going to be used as political fodder, as it has been in the past.”

God damn right it is. When they start playing the clips of this guys sermons, and then play the clip of what he just said, it is going right to the heart of the mans judgement - maybe even honesty. Sorry, I kind of value that in a POTUS.

quote:

So you vote on flag pins and where he puts his hand when the anthem plays; on sentiment.

Good to know

No, I just do not want a POTUS that does not support the men and women who have fought and died so that we can grow up in a free country. Want to protest? Fine. Don't want to show respect to the flag? Fine, too.

I just have a bad habit of not supporting candidates that show disrespect to the flag that represents the very freedom they take for granted.

You don't have a problem with him showing disrespect to the flag? A man that wants to hold the highest office in the land?

Well Desert I have watched a lot of vids and interviews with this particular preacher. I do now see he is part of the reverse racism crowd. If Obama finds this individual as a "guide" in any way their is a very high likelyhood is does also prescribe to the race inclusive reverse racism. In every university their are Black only greek systems and black only student governments. That is racism disguised underneath social guilt of past misdeeds.

It is not a secret that black empowerment groups are race inclusive and are racist by the inclusive nature of their basic axioms. I would like to dig further into Obams's and his wife's past college associations to see if they were a part of black only greek fraternities and sororities and or black only student governments. If this church which seems to have as its leaders practice this reverse racism by proxy of a 20 year relationship the only conclusion would be that Obama would have to also believe in similar ideology.

I dont normally agree with Sean Hannity but on his interview with the preacher his comparison if a church self labeled all of it ideas and practices with the word white instead of black they would be villified as racist. That would be correct against any "white" institution as it would be correct against any "black" institution. Racism applies equally to black,white,yellow, or brown.

Oh, lord. What a clown you are. Honestly. Wielding this phony, chin-out patriotism like a club. You should be ashamed of yourself.

What exactly has Obama done to show that he "does not support the men and women who have fought and died so that we can grow up in a free country"? He's anti-military now? Let's see you name something. You're just making this stuff up in your head.

How has he "show(n) disrespect to the flag that represents the very freedom they take for granted"?

Like I said, you're a sentimentalist. You're voting on feeling, without a clue what these people actually do once they get in office. Or maybe you do know, but you think this stuff is more important to you. Feeling. Sentiment. Flag pins.

Do you really think a president and his cabinet and his advisors discuss flag pins and ...whatever else you're falsely accusing him of?

Aye aye aye.

So no, I don't have a problem with him showing disrespect to the flag. Because he hasn't. And I don't get caught up in symbols either. Because I'm not 12.

What's your excuse?

Here you go, DesertDawg. Here's Obama hating his country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8QCkgg5Kjo&feature=related

Sorry, buddy. If there's anyone disrespecting America in that clip it's that vocalist.

Good god, that is awful.

I mean, really. Is this clip what is deciding your vote, or even how you're forming your impression of this man? This??

Really?

Like I said normally I dont prescribe to Sean Hannity but this is a very good argument and something that definately needs to be looked at critically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZXeNk7H3u4&feature=related

If these are the basic goals and tenants of this church that barack Obama and his wife have been members for 20 years than he would be a member of a "racist" organization. I would not stand for this from a polished, great public speaking white candidate. i certainly will not stand for it from a black candidate.

Black racism is just as ignorant and socially counter productive as white rascism. This may be disguised underneath the pretext of past civil rights struggles but the logic is sound when it is connected to racism. Social equalizing empowerment does not come from race labeling it comes from the fact that you dont label at all why one human is equal to another. The moment you start labeling and creating exclusivity and preferance based on race that is exactly what racism is.

Barack may be polished but if he is a member of a clearly racist church than you have to ask yourself how would you judge a white candidate that was a member of a church that did replace the word black for white. David Duke ring a bell for anyone??

Now he's David Duke? Holy cow.

Get a ****ing grip, man.

No of course Obama is not david duke. But was not Duke associated by membership to a racist organization?

Heck lets see if we are even understanding our mutual logic. Is the church and its goals and axioms that obama is a member of have racist undertones and markets racist goals?

David Duke WAS a racist. David Duke believes that black people are inferior to white people. He was a member of the KKK.

This church is not the black version of the KKK. You're extrapolating from a premise that is completely false.

Let's try making some real points here.

I don't mind if people think it's their democratic duty to look into these questions. That's what voters do. What I mind is when they come to non-sensical conclusions. What I mind is when they accept what is nothing more than political strategy as truth and swallow it whole like they were born yesterday.

quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
Here you go, DesertDawg. Here's Obama hating his country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8QCkgg5Kjo&feature=related

Sorry, buddy. If there's anyone disrespecting America in that clip it's that vocalist.

Good god, that is awful.

You think I am deciding my vote on a video clip on youtube? Dude, don't be such a smart ass. You think the rest of us don't research all the issues? That we get our info from Comedy Central and the Daily Show?

Get a grip, man. Obama is a lot of talk, and zero - ZERO - accomplishments as a Senator. He talks a good game.

We disagree. Lets leave it at that. Trust me, I am not wavering on an Obama vote, so spare me the campaigning.

quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:


This church is not the black version of the KKK. You're extrapolating from a premise that is completely false.

Based on your first hand experience with the Church, you feel is is not a racist entity? Riiiiggght.......

That is what I was saying. Sev it took me a couple of times and some digging before this whole issue just does not sit well with me. Any way you look at it, if after 20 years Obama did not know what was going on then he is a fool. If he did and he does not believe in it and did nothing then he is not the guy I want in the White House. If it is his agenda and the same goes.

Heck, I just don't see how you can blow this off so easily.

If Duke has said the same things that the Rev did Heck you would be all up in arms that he is racist. Being a racist is an equal opertunity thing, they come in all colors and sizes.

First this church changed all its main 10 points on their website to exclude the word "black". If you have nothing to hide then there would be no reason to change anything they have published for years. UNLESS THEY ARE HIDING WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.

Heck of course Obama is not David duke. However if Obama is a member of a racist organization than he is guilty by association of 20 years not to mention his close personal ties with the organizations leader. The church may not be an extreme proponent of racism like organizations like the KKK but there does not exist a acceptable form or "moderate racism". I am a double minority and do not believe in reverse inclusion of race specific empowerment. That is exactly what that church has been preaching for years. Only now that they are in the media spotlight they are suddenly changing their tune so as not to hurt Obama. If what they have been preaching is not racism nor any sort of race specific goals and inclusion than why are they suddenly changing their tone?

I am extropolating from a premise that is completely false? How exactly am I doing that? Show me how my premise is false? Demonstrate this to me exactly how my comparison of this church and its racist goals are false?

Heck I like Obama, he seems to be a inspiring public speaker. If thru this election process that veneer is stripped away that reveals something that is not so impressive, well that is what elections do. Black racism is still racism and it is just as ignorant as other forms of racism. Honestly i do not care if Obama was yellow or green, I liked his prescence and his ability to deliver a message. However if his associations are derogatory that is something that needs to be taken into serious consideration.

Sorry Desert, I'm just going by what you said. Now you're saying you didn't say it.

Well, here's what you said: "I just do not want a POTUS that does not support the men and women who have fought and died so that we can grow up in a free country."

You also said "I just have a bad habit of not supporting candidates that show disrespect to the flag that represents the very freedom they take for granted."

What are you basing that on if not the incident in the YouTube?

If you really are taking the issues into account, what made you believe this about Obama?

quote:

Barack may be polished but if he is a member of a clearly racist church than you have to ask yourself how would you judge a white candidate that was a member of a church that did replace the word black for white.

That's your false premise. You're equating his membership in a church that preaches the fairly typical notions (for an urban black church) of black self-determination, empowerment, and paranoia and equate it with white supremacist organizations. They're not the same thing.

The members of Trinity Baptist aren't coming to hang white people from the trees.