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AFC North Player of the Month |
Oh I will not vote for Clinton, at one point Obama looked interesting as new blood. But I will vote for McCain the odds are. Sorry but your and his explaination of this makes no sense, especially since, one it took him a while to distance himself and two there is no way he did not know about the Rev's views. If he did not have some foundation of belief he would have found a different church. Sev as for what is Racist about it. If a white man would have said those things and reversed the races he would have been called a racist in no uncertain terms. David Duke comes to mind. If people want to ignore this then that is their choice. If that want to stop and wonder what is really in the man's heart then that is their right too. It just amazes me how quickly republicans are villified and democrats are given a pass. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
From what I've watched, the media has been pretty careful to attempt to distance themselves from any sort of labeling. Anderson Cooper went out of his way to introduce his piece as "newsworthy" since it was all over youtube and several other media outlets. Now those other outlets may have had other motives, can't really say and I don't think it matters. Obama's pastor/preacher said some things that are going to make others uncomfortable. Blame them all you want for feeling that way, doesn't change the fact that that's how they're going to feel. As much as I cringe when Heck or others pull out the "act like a grown up" card while discussing politics, I think he has a point here. This isn't a storm created by the media and it's not a storm created by Obama. It's only a storm to those who are looking for a storm. Beanpot |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
It is a storm becuase this is the man that will lead the country. If it is such not a big deal why did Obama not just stand up and say so. Why not just say one quote out of a lifetime of preaching does not show what is really in a mans heart. Instead he is distancing himself. So which is it?
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Nav, did it bother you that the man who Bush credited with turning him to Christ, and served as his spiritual advisor for years and years, and visited him at the White House, was an anti-Semite?
Did that cause you to abandon your vote for Bush? You know, since there's no place for racism in the White House... |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
He said the following: I had not heard him make such, what I consider to be objectionable remarks from the pulpit. Had I heard them while I was in church, I would have objected. Had that been the tenor of the church generally, I probably wouldn't be a member of the church. The church I know, Trinity, is a pillar of the community, one of the most active and well-established churches in the country. It is a welcoming church that is visited by people from all across the world, particularly in the United Church of Christ family, so I strongly reject the statements that he's made. Given that he's on the brink of retirement, we have a new pastor, Rev. Moss, I don't intend to leave the church. The way I view it, Carol, is, Rev. Wright is like an uncle who you love and respect but who has lately said some things that you really disagree with and anger . . . WTF else is he supposed to say? Beanpot |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
One you are assuming I voted for Bush, both primary and election. Two when it comes down to picking the worst of two evils I will do just that. |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Nothing if it is not an issue, or just that, that it is not an issue. I would except that, might not agree with it, but I would respect the man for it. |
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Hall of Fame Legend |
He can't say *nothing* - or that it's not an issue - when he's being asked questions about the issue in a room filled with print editors. I think he deftly distanced himself from the issue while making it clear that he admires his time spent with Wright. That's political dexterity, nothing more. Beanpot |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Which is what we have to much of on both sides. Hey the first step in Change should be this political two step.
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Hall of Fame Legend |
Hah! Good point. Gotta admit, I'm immediately skeptical of anyone who seriously waves the flag for one side of the aisle over the other. Beanpot |
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Hall of Famer |
Nav I definately do agree that there is a double standard and a over sensitive perception on what "white" people can or can not say. Beanpot I think I am with you on this, i dont see any major issue and or problem except with people who want there to be in one in the first place.
Nav I dont see any "racism" in what his preacher said on those vids. I do wish certainly that "white" people were not unfairly criticized by organizations like the Naacp and sharpton and his ilk for comments that really dont need the criticism that is leveled at them. |
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AFC North Player of the Month |
Bean, Sev,
Thanks for seeing my point. As I understand where you both are coming from. I just wish we could stop this merry-go-round and get someone in there that would actually just do what is right. It would also be nice to just be able to raise the BS flag once in a while. What I think this whole event shows is that neither side is honest about change. One Obama bent and both Clinton and McCain did not stand up and raise the BS flag. |
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Outta Work Pimp Ring of Honor  |
MORE CLIPS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM&eurl=http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/ It's not so much that he has listened to a douchebag, it's that he's done so for 20 years. The "douchebag" has been an integral part of Obama's spiritual life. That life has included a marriage ceremony and a couple of baptisms. I find it hard to believe that Obama finds the Reverends views unacceptable given these facts. If I were attending a church, in which the Pastor took aim at my political views and attacked my country, instead of addressing my spiritual needs, I would get up, walk out and find another church to attend. He has, in the past,(1984) traveled to Libya, with another known black racist, Louis Farrakhan to visit the terrorist supporter and sponsor Colonel Gadhafi. I would have to surmise that Obama must agree with a good deal of what the Reverend Wright espouses, to have remained in his congregation, for such a long time. He couldn't have just become aware of the radical ideas of his spiritual advisor, unless, of course, he sleeps through all the sermons. The fact that Obama was too stupid to distance himself from this guy long ago shows poor situational awareness... poor planning. Obama didn't have the forsight to deal with this long ago by either telling his friend to STFU and do some back peddling, or by distancing himself before all this would go public. The fact that he didn't see this coming and didn't plan for it is one more indication that he is not qualified for the job as President. |
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Outta Work Pimp Ring of Honor |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Racist sermon after racist sermon? Where are you getting that?
And you're missing the point about McCain and Falwell. Nav accused Obama of either sharing his racist views or "sell(ing) out to whoever will get him elected." Okay, I think we can be fairly sure that Obama isn't a racist. And on the second point, McCain sold out to Falwell -- and more recently, to Reverend Hagee, who is just as disgusting and nuts as Falwell ever was -- in order to gain favor with the Evangelical Republicans he needs to win the election. Even though he's not a religious man. Even though he'd already labeled Falwell an "agent of intolerance." McCain even suddenly became a Baptist after deciding to run for president again. So how does one accuse Obama of selling out to the black community by joining this church and not accuse McCain of the same thing? |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
The larger issue is that this is political strategy, and political strategy doesn't have to make sense. It just has to resonate.
Clearly, this resonates with you guys. It's classic political strategy: undercut what your opponents greatest strength is. When it's uber-wonk Al Gore, you peg him as a liar and a fabulist, even if the charges don't make sense. When it's Vietnam veteran John Kerry, you attack his war record. Or as someone in the Bush campaign famously said, "When we're done with him, they won't even know which side he fought for." When it's "straight-talker" John McCain, you point out all the places he's flip-flopped, or done favors for lobbyists. And when it's inspiring, uniting, post-racial candidate Barack Obama, what do you think the opposition is going to do, whether it's Hillary now or McCain in the general? Try to peg him with some stuff someone else said that makes him look less inspiring, more race-conscious, and divisive. That's all this is. None of these people forwarding these claims actually thinks Obama is a racist, or overly-influenced by his pastor's views. But that doesn't matter. It just matters what you guys think -- the voters. It just matters that most Americans, including many in the media, fall for it. And boy, are you guys falling for it. |
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Numbers Retired and hangs in the rafters |
Thinking back a bit, how many of you guys were talking in here about how Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet? I can remember having this discussion with a couple of you a few years ago. Some of you dropped that line repeatedly, then I showed you the actual quote, and then you all had to admit that wasn't what he said. Because it wasn't.
Like I said, it doesn't have to be true, or even make sense. It's just got to work. Fast forward to today -- how many of you guys have expressed your fears about Obama being a Muslim, or not sufficiently patriotic because he doesn't wear a flag pin on his lapel? ...See what I mean? |
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Outta Work Pimp Ring of Honor |
Heck, you're sweeping this under the rug, man.
It is his association, not mine. He went to that church for over 20 years. And NOW he wants to distance himself? Why? Because it is politically expedient to do so, that's why.
Yeah no shit, that is why he is backing away from the reverand. Political strategy!!! |
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Outta Work Pimp Ring of Honor |
First, I don't give a shit about McCain either. I don't like anyof the candidates, and that includes McCain. I accuse both of them of selling out. That is the mistake you make - you think I am a Republican. Second, I don't think Obama is a racist. I certainly do not appreciate his views on America, or his willingness to disrespect the Flag and what it represents, but I never said he was a racist. Fact is I don't know for sure. What I will say is his association with this reverand doesn't do him any good in a lot of people eyes - people who were thinking about voting for him rather than McCain. Third, this is his pastor. Obama has gone to this church for 20 years. You cannot listen to hate speech for that long, not walk away, and then cringe when people accuse you of associating with a racist. That is childish. |
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Outta Work Pimp Ring of Honor |
You think this was a one time speech? Have you listened to this guy and some of the things he has said over the course of his career? You think he woke up that day and had an epiphany? How quaintly naive. And childish. |
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